Gay Gods and Roman Lovers

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 11:48 AM GMT
    I didn't know until today that Emperor Hadrian had a Greek male lover, Antinous. This was openly known and rather celebrated in Rome, with Antinous being made a God by Hadrian on his untimely death, and founding a religious cult that rivalled Christianity for popularity in Rome.

    Imagine how different things might have been...

    This is news to me, so I wanted to share it. If you fancy a bit of a read:


    http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/themes/leaders_and_rulers/hadrian/life_and_legacy.aspx
  • GWriter

    Posts: 1446

    Jan 04, 2013 2:05 PM GMT
    Interesting read. Thanks!
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Jan 04, 2013 3:28 PM GMT
    Yes, thanks.
    The whole pagan Graeco-Roman culture was surprisingly open and tolerant on questions of religion and sexuality. People were free to worship more than one god or set of gods, at different shrines, and mystery cults.
    This is in marked contrast to Christian culture.....
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 3:32 PM GMT
    Ahhh, those greeks....icon_biggrin.gif
  • thatirishbast...

    Posts: 3523

    Jan 04, 2013 3:35 PM GMT
    The Emperor Nero had two wives, Octavia whom he killed, and Poppaea whom he killed afterwards. He also had a Greek freedwoman named Acte as a lover. Another of his lovers was also his mother Agrippina. He killed her too.

    But he also had a husband named Huedonitus. They were legally married, because hey, Caesar can do what he wants. And after he killed Poppaea he was filled with such remorse that he found a young catamite named Sporus who looked just like her. Sporus was castrated and became Nero's concubine.

    Those silly, silly Romans!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 3:36 PM GMT
    Lincsbear saidYes, thanks.
    The whole pagan Graeco-Roman culture was surprisingly open and tolerant on questions of religion and sexuality. People were free to worship more than one god or set of gods, at different shrines, and mystery cults.
    This is in marked contrast to Christian culture.....


    Christian culture has survived (a rocky) 2000 years though. Apparently, there's some appeal there too. G-R did not.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 3:37 PM GMT
    You should read Memoirs of Hadrian by Marguerite Yourcenar:

    http://www.amazon.com/Memoirs-Hadrian-Marguerite-Yourcenar/dp/0374529264/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357313807&sr=8-1&keywords=memoirs+of+hadrian
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 3:46 PM GMT
    My mind still goes the plethora of RJ Gods. What magic and power they hold, but to be held back in their arms... I forgot what I was going to post.
    icon_biggrin.gif
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Jan 04, 2013 4:00 PM GMT
    Will_Maher4, I think Christianity`s longevity tells you as much about it`s agenda of social control (and therefore coercion) as much as it`s innate appeal.

    The early Christians were never just content to worship according to their own beliefs; everybody else had to join in, whether they agreed or not. It became the handmaiden of government in the empire and Europe subsequently, sharing the priveleges and influence. In many ways it took on some of the features/appeal of the older pagan religions like Mithraism, Invictor Solis, etc., such as semi-divine or divine characters who die and then are reborn or resurrected and transformed, and so on.

    It also deliberately went about destroying pagan culture once it became the official religion of the Roman Empire.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:01 PM GMT
    thatirishbastard saidThe Emperor Nero had two wives, Octavia whom he killed, and Poppaea whom he killed afterwards. He also had a Greek freedwoman named Acte as a lover. Another of his lovers was also his mother Agrippina. He killed her too.

    But he also had a husband named Huedonitus. They were legally married, because hey, Caesar can do what he wants. And after he killed Poppaea he was filled with such remorse that he found a young catamite named Sporus who looked just like her. Sporus was castrated and became Nero's concubine.

    Those silly, silly Romans!



    yeah, maybe a little too much imperial prerogative there...but I like the fluidity!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:31 PM GMT
    Will_Maher4 said
    Lincsbear saidYes, thanks.
    The whole pagan Graeco-Roman culture was surprisingly open and tolerant on questions of religion and sexuality. People were free to worship more than one god or set of gods, at different shrines, and mystery cults.
    This is in marked contrast to Christian culture.....


    Christian culture has survived (a rocky) 2000 years though. Apparently, there's some appeal there too. G-R did not.


    How do you know that G-R didn't live for 2000 years before christianity took over?

    And Lincsbear pretty much summed up what I thought of the previous point you made.
  • HPgeek934

    Posts: 970

    Jan 04, 2013 4:39 PM GMT
    I'm taking applications for a Greek male lover if anyone is interested
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:40 PM GMT
    This member is our resident expert on Gay Greco-Romans: http://www.realjock.com/dinoalexit

    This thread discusses one of my favorite books, "Lovers' Legends: The Gay Greek Myths," which includes the preeminent one between Zeus and Ganymede: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1670006

    That book was prominently displayed in the cabin of my old boat (that's "Zeus" rendered in gold leaf next to the boat name "Ganymede" in the first pic and under the compass housing in the third; a likeness of "Ganymede" was similarly rendered on the port hull):

    2ryo5sm.jpg

    2im84z4.jpg

    9zrpzk.jpg

    2r75641.jpg

    If I look chubby (count the chins) there's a reason - I couldn't maintain both. I could honor the Greek Gods or just look like one.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:45 PM GMT
    karson said
    Will_Maher4 said
    Lincsbear saidYes, thanks.
    The whole pagan Graeco-Roman culture was surprisingly open and tolerant on questions of religion and sexuality. People were free to worship more than one god or set of gods, at different shrines, and mystery cults.
    This is in marked contrast to Christian culture.....


    Christian culture has survived (a rocky) 2000 years though. Apparently, there's some appeal there too. G-R did not.


    How do you know that G-R didn't live for 2000 years before christianity took over?

    And Lincsbear pretty much summed up what I thought of the previous point you made.


    Agree, Linc, made a good summation of Christianity in the historical context. I was only making an observation on Christianity's staying power. What's your definition of the G-R era?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:47 PM GMT
    HPgeek934 saidI'm taking applications for a Greek male lover if anyone is interested


    a greek god like this one?

    thor_trainer.jpg


    who I know is, like, australian or something...

    anyway, back to history...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:48 PM GMT
    well in Rome and greek cultures it was true that it was ok to have a male lover..however....it was looked down upon if you were the bottom in the relationship...as then you would be demonstrating female traits. It was only ok if you were the top..and it would also be seen and recognized as male mentorship...plato had a lover as well.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:50 PM GMT
    Will_Maher4 said
    karson said
    Will_Maher4 said
    Lincsbear saidYes, thanks.
    The whole pagan Graeco-Roman culture was surprisingly open and tolerant on questions of religion and sexuality. People were free to worship more than one god or set of gods, at different shrines, and mystery cults.
    This is in marked contrast to Christian culture.....


    Christian culture has survived (a rocky) 2000 years though. Apparently, there's some appeal there too. G-R did not.


    How do you know that G-R didn't live for 2000 years before christianity took over?

    And Lincsbear pretty much summed up what I thought of the previous point you made.


    Agree, Linc, made a good summation of Christianity in the historical context. I was only making an observation on Christianity's staying power. What's your definition of the G-R era?


    I dont know I just read that the greek gods starting appearing at different times, so you could go from when the final version of the religion appeared or from when the greek gods started appearing. I think I'd go from the former though which probably isnt 2000 years old but I really dont have any idea.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:55 PM GMT
    but in any case, the terms 'graeco-roman' and 'christian' aren't necessarily comparable. They are both different collections of political, social, cultural and religious forces. Not to mention they fed into and off each other in the last 2,000 years anyway. Could we not see Russia, the US and Europe all as contrasting examples of that?

    And is longevity a good signifier of quality? My friend the baker says that the best bread doesn't last as long as the poor stuff...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:55 PM GMT
    misterwood said
    HPgeek934 saidI'm taking applications for a Greek male lover if anyone is interested


    a greek god like this one?

    thor_trainer.jpg


    who I know is, like, australian or something...

    anyway, back to history...


    ... not so fast. Even academics need diversion.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:56 PM GMT
    ha ha...good point...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 4:59 PM GMT
    Will_Maher4 said
    karson said
    Will_Maher4 said
    Lincsbear saidYes, thanks.
    The whole pagan Graeco-Roman culture was surprisingly open and tolerant on questions of religion and sexuality. People were free to worship more than one god or set of gods, at different shrines, and mystery cults.
    This is in marked contrast to Christian culture.....


    Christian culture has survived (a rocky) 2000 years though. Apparently, there's some appeal there too. G-R did not.


    How do you know that G-R didn't live for 2000 years before christianity took over?

    And Lincsbear pretty much summed up what I thought of the previous point you made.


    Agree, Linc, made a good summation of Christianity in the historical context. I was only making an observation on Christianity's staying power. What's your definition of the G-R era?


    Keep in mind, early Christianity melded some paganism in, and all those G-R gods developed into the cult of Saints. Constantine may have protectednChristianity ithe empire in 313 AD, but he didn't live as a Christian, and was only baptized on his death bed. Paganism continued well after his death.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 5:06 PM GMT
    Will_Maher4 said
    thor_trainer.jpg


    who I know is, like, australian or something...

    anyway, back to history...


    ... not so fast. Even academics need diversion.

    One thing that amazes me is how fast these guys bulk up. You can see his movies just before Thor and he was just a fit guy. Same with that Captain America dude. I suspect they gain so much of muscle by just working out.icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 5:17 PM GMT


    anyway, back to history...


    ... not so fast. Even academics need diversion.[/quote]

    this one for Will_Maher4. More food for, um, thort...

    237_chris-hemsworth-torso-desnudo-escena
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 04, 2013 5:23 PM GMT
    misterwood said

    anyway, back to history...


    ... not so fast. Even academics need diversion.


    this one for Will_Maher4. More food for, um, thort...

    237_chris-hemsworth-torso-desnudo-escena
    [/quote]

    Ok, Mister, you think man can be so easily tempted by an attractive body (ok a very attractive body)? What about philosophy and spirituality and morality and .... oh damn I got distracted again. What was the question? Yea, this guy was favored by the gods alright.
  • owen19832006

    Posts: 1035

    Jan 04, 2013 5:31 PM GMT
    that is very interesting indeed!! i didnt know that thanks for sharing!

    ps isnt the blonde guy on the pic the guy who played Thor in the film?!