...And here's your debt...that's TRILLIONS, folks!

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    Sep 22, 2008 2:21 AM GMT
    "The administration's proposal also requests that Congress authorize an increase to the nation's debt ceiling. Currently, it's set to rise to $10.6 trillion for fiscal year 2009 - which runs from October 2008 through September 2009. But the proposal requests that limit be increased to $11.315 trillion to allow for the purchases of mortgage-backed assets."

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/21/news/economy/bailout_proposal_Sunday/index.htm

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Sep 22, 2008 2:23 AM GMT
    God that makes me sick to my stomach.

    Quick definition: A trillion is a thousand Billion... A Billion is a thousand Million....I mean thats STAGGERING!!!!!

    11.3 TRILLION???
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    Sep 22, 2008 3:21 AM GMT
    oh yes...believe me...with the economy in chaos and the mess that is happening...there are some people that will be leaving office from now till January (and in January) that are going to be some extremely...and I mean..extremely wealthy people.
    Much of that money is not going where they say it will be going. Trust me.
    Much of it has already been diverted. There is more going on here than the "surface story" folks.
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    Sep 22, 2008 6:56 AM GMT
    Yayy! lets go shopping and live in the delusion of certain "Wealthy Republicans" on this site that it (economic disaster) is all like Global Warming .. that is, it doesn't exist!! icon_lol.gif
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    Sep 22, 2008 7:31 AM GMT
    And who owns that debt?....foreigners! ...If they control our debt, they control our country and our future....it's worse than our dependence on foreign oil.

    Republican politicians have been dishonest in telling Americans that they dont have to pay more taxes to cover spending....when they then go and borrow the money. ... Republicans with their borrow have distorted that entire financial process of the government...and the playing field of politics.

    The "pain" of taxes is what keeps the government in line. Taxpayers feel the pain of taxes; they dont feel the pain of borrowing. If Republicans truly wanted to keep taxes low and gov't small, they would insist on taxes. ...But then they would have to pay them too....so it's "to hell with America, borrow the money."

    DEBT: the "drug" of the American taxpayer. ....and we have one big-assed habit!
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    Sep 22, 2008 7:46 AM GMT
    icon_eek.gifWait .. you mean the tax breaks for the wealthy are bad, and the fundamentals of the economy are not fine?? The church of McCainaanite told me it was all good and that we just have to give the wealthy and corporations more tax breaks. Surely if we give them more money they will make things better won't they?? icon_lol.gif
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    Sep 22, 2008 8:25 AM GMT
    Caslon7000 saidThe "pain" of taxes is what keeps the government in line. Taxpayers feel the pain of taxes; they dont feel the pain of borrowing. If Republicans truly wanted to keep taxes low and gov't small, they would insist on taxes. ...But then they would have to pay them too....so it's "to hell with America, borrow the money."

    Wasn't there a book you mentioned about this topic?
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Sep 22, 2008 9:48 AM GMT
    Ronald Reagan increased the National debt

    Bush senior then did him even better and raised the ante

    Clinton did what a President should do and decreased the National debt
    and we had low unemployment
    great growth and relative proserity

    I don't even have to tell you what Prodigal Son has done

    http://zfacts.com/p/480.html
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    Sep 22, 2008 10:44 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit said
    Caslon7000 saidThe "pain" of taxes is what keeps the government in line. Taxpayers feel the pain of taxes; they dont feel the pain of borrowing. If Republicans truly wanted to keep taxes low and gov't small, they would insist on taxes. ...But then they would have to pay them too....so it's "to hell with America, borrow the money."

    Wasn't there a book you mentioned about this topic?

    If there is, I dont know it. I am just making this up from the thinking I started over on the thread of what's next to blow up in our faces that we should be looking at now as "too good to be true" ....and I am thinking it's the debt. ..

    Kind of working backwards:

    the debt > we're not paying taxes for what we are spending > Republicans are always telling us we dont need to raise taxes > so they borrow (borrowing is the politically easy way for politicians...responsible taxation is the hard way) > borrowing causes no immediate pain to the taxpayer > no pain, no restrain > spending continues > and we are back to the debt

    This has made me realize the "good" in taxation. It brings the spending home to the taxpayer. The "pain" of taxes makes taxpayers take serious notice of the spending and make the hard decisions if they really want what is being spent on. The "pain" of taxes makes the taxpayer pay attention to what gov't is really doing.

    But this requires reliance on the virtue in the taxpayer. The taxpayer has to be willing to be responsible. It is easy for politicians ....ah, yes here is where the Debt-n-Spend Republicans come in... to tempt taxpayers away from their responsibility by telling them that they dont have to pay....that it is all the fault of "Washington" ...(like who the hell is "Washington"? ...Washington is us...the dumbasses!)

    So the Debt-n-Spend Republicans push their debt "drug" on to the taxpayer. And the taxpayer quickly gets hooked. The taxpayers dont see why they should ever be taxed anymore. Which is where we are now with Republican "pushers" and debt "junkie" taxpayers. This totally distorts the political life of a country, just like real drugs distort a person's life. We no longer live in reality.

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 22, 2008 11:52 AM GMT
    Don't you just love how Republican RJers blame a lot of this financial mess on people living outside of their means?
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    Sep 22, 2008 12:20 PM GMT
    Ummm Excuse me coolarmydude, that's what a subprime mortgage means.

    I don't think you fully understand the situation here pal.

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    Sep 22, 2008 12:25 PM GMT
    How's the investigation coming, Sherlock?
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    Sep 22, 2008 12:29 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidYayy! lets go shopping and live in the delusion of certain "Wealthy Republicans" on this site that it (economic disaster) is all like Global Warming .. that is, it doesn't exist!! icon_lol.gif

    LOL....Perfect summary. I'd forgotten that Bush told us to stop worrying (whining) and go shopping when things started to slide.

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 22, 2008 1:14 PM GMT
    John43620 said, "Ummm Excuse me coolarmydude, that's what a subprime mortgage means. I don't think you fully understand the situation here pal."


    My point was sarcasm...and now, let me explain it to YOU: Big lenders who made these risky offers got themselves managed outside of their means. Now they're getting a big fat bailout from the government as paid for by the taxpayers. So, if it's okay to let people fail on an individual level becuase of their living outside of their means, then why is it not okay for the big corporations who also caused this mess to do the same?

    If you answer "to save the economy", then you verify that these greedy corporations are the ones holding the economy hostage.

    I don't think you care to "understand the situation here pal."
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    Sep 22, 2008 1:32 PM GMT
    The business' that loaned out monies to HIGH RISK individuals(for loan defaults) did so under the guidlines of Federal/State Policies.

    The Federal/State Policies re: Lending Companies, should not be allowed to do such - look at the mess not only in the USA, but around the world.

    So George - try to get this one RIGHT before you leave!
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    Sep 22, 2008 1:33 PM GMT
    I know....let's play a SPELLING GAME !!!

    Can you spell....Crisis Management ??


    (create a crisis so then you can "manage" it...and make a TON of money. )


    Worked in Iraq too didn't it !!?

    Lovely business...these politicians have taken thievery to a whole new level and art form.


    LOL
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    Sep 22, 2008 2:04 PM GMT
    My rough calculations come up with the US National Debt being around 80% of GDP. Canada's was around 67% when it started with the tough medicine (it is now less than 40%).

    Mind you this bailout does not automatically mean that the money is all lost. My understanding is the government is taking over the so-called toxic debt of which it can sell. It will not get much for its' money I am afraid.

    The next President's first budget will say volumes about how the US is going to tackle this problem. Are the Bush tax cuts going to continue? Will spending be cut (including Defence)? Both? Neither, and the deficit continues to grow? It is never a good sign when an economy is growing as well as the US one was in 2006 and 2007, and still ran a large budget deficit. Now it slowing and the deficit is ballooning (ever before the Wall Street mess it was coming in at 489 billion for the fiscal year ending September 30th).

    The consequences of a large national debt?

    - risk of a downgrade of Treasury Bills which makes them riskier (which in turn increases interest payments);

    - US dollar will lose value;

    - more and more of the US budget will go towards paying interest on the debt, which will squeeze out other parts of the budget (including Defence and Homeland Security);

    - less room for fiscal stimulus in the future.