Lying to give blood

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    Jan 06, 2013 4:05 PM GMT
    i know this is bad, and i know i shouldnt,but id only have sex with guys if im dating them as i want sex to mean something, i dont have sex otherwise, when giving blood i always lie and say im straight, i have rare blood and i love helping people, i think its wrong to say no to gay guys when they would run the same tests on others blood

    i know some of you may disagree but im going to continue doing this, does anyone else do the same?
    my thought is if my blood helps save a life (even if i dont know it) makes it worth it
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    Jan 06, 2013 4:32 PM GMT
    You live in the UK, hardly known for its anti gay legislation. I think that people who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to HIV (aka people who actually research the disease) would be better suited to decide whether you should give blood or not and they have.
  • Kriss

    Posts: 690

    Jan 06, 2013 6:16 PM GMT
    There was actually another thread about this. I give blood when I can, red cross constantly pursues me because I am a universal donor you probably are too.

    My blood type allows me to donate around all spectrums of the Blood groups but when it comes to recieving Blood I have to have another person of my exact type.

    I like the idea of giving blood and I think even within the red cross their is still some scare of the HIV and AIDS amongst the gay population. That being the case I think they are extremely careful. I dont see any problem with lying so you can help others if you checked with a doctor prior and know for a positive fact you don't have anything that might cause another person to be at risk health wise.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 06, 2013 6:46 PM GMT
    As noble as that sounds, if you lie and say you're straight, then you're just empowering the homophobes, who would like nothing more than to shove us back into the closet. There are other ways to save lives, without having to lie and compromise your integrity, and the integrity of the gay community.
  • Kriss

    Posts: 690

    Jan 06, 2013 7:13 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidAs noble as that sounds, if you lie and say you're straight, then you're just empowering the homophobes, who would like nothing more than to shove us back into the closet. There are other ways to save lives, without having to lie and compromise your integrity, and the integrity of the gay community.


    I dont think a small lie from one personal choice is going to corrupt the gay community or destroy integrity. I mean I would rather give blood knowing it's going to a cause to potentialy if not save someones life.

    Frankly though I would much prefer it if the lie didn't have to be told on anyones part. I mean how sad is it that we have to lie in order to help another person!? That makes no dam sense to me! WTF IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD@!
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 06, 2013 7:16 PM GMT
    Kriss said
    HottJoe saidAs noble as that sounds, if you lie and say you're straight, then you're just empowering the homophobes, who would like nothing more than to shove us back into the closet. There are other ways to save lives, without having to lie and compromise your integrity, and the integrity of the gay community.


    I dont think a small lie from one personal choice is going to corrupt the gay community or destroy integrity. I mean I would rather give blood knowing it's going to a cause to potentialy if not save someones life.

    Frankly though I would much prefer it if the lie didn't have to be told on anyones part. I mean how sad is it that we have to lie in order to help another person!? That makes no dam sense to me! WTF IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD@!


    Why bother coming out then? If you're not standing up for yourself, might as well just stay closeted.icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 06, 2013 7:18 PM GMT
    YIKES!!! lying is lying!
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    Jan 06, 2013 7:20 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    Kriss said
    HottJoe saidAs noble as that sounds, if you lie and say you're straight, then you're just empowering the homophobes, who would like nothing more than to shove us back into the closet. There are other ways to save lives, without having to lie and compromise your integrity, and the integrity of the gay community.


    I dont think a small lie from one personal choice is going to corrupt the gay community or destroy integrity. I mean I would rather give blood knowing it's going to a cause to potentialy if not save someones life.

    Frankly though I would much prefer it if the lie didn't have to be told on anyones part. I mean how sad is it that we have to lie in order to help another person!? That makes no dam sense to me! WTF IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD@!


    Why bother coming out then? If you're not standing up for yourself, might as well just stay closeted.icon_rolleyes.gif


    Like everything else... Time. One day when the shortage is beyond real, Gays will be asked to step to the front of the line to donate.
  • Camz03

    Posts: 91

    Jan 06, 2013 8:49 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidAs noble as that sounds, if you lie and say you're straight, then you're just empowering the homophobes, who would like nothing more than to shove us back into the closet. There are other ways to save lives, without having to lie and compromise your integrity, and the integrity of the gay community.


    I've always gone for this route. At our university's LGBT society's discussion groups, I spoke to people and they all thought I was selfish and crazy to deny unhealthy people healthy blood, but I stand by my decision.

    Until I can donate blood legally, and proudly as a gay man, I will not donate my blood on principle. I will not lie, I will not compromise my sexuality and integrity, even if it is potentially life-saving.

    I know we should be the better people and rise above it, but the thought that my blood could potentially be used to save the life of some homophobe that will go on to support anti-gay legislation takes it one step too far. I realise that this scenario is possible even if it were legal, but in some sense I would feel like I did the right thing and WAS able to rise above the haters.

    I guess this just goes hand in hand with the mentality that, at some point, activists get so fed up with bad treatment we take the "fuck you" approach and staunchily stand our ground where it seems a bit drastic. But like I said, it's what I have decided is right for me and for the gay community that I support.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jan 06, 2013 9:02 PM GMT
    I think theynow batch test all blood nowbatch ... so even if you are positive, the worst that could happen is they would have to throw out an entire batch.
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    Jan 06, 2013 9:09 PM GMT
    I do it all the time. I understand what HottJoe and Camz03 is saying; but I feel like waging this war in this way inflicts more collateral damage (i.e., depriving the poor saps bleeding out on tables) than any thing else.
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    Jan 06, 2013 9:14 PM GMT
    Camz03 said
    HottJoe saidAs noble as that sounds, if you lie and say you're straight, then you're just empowering the homophobes, who would like nothing more than to shove us back into the closet. There are other ways to save lives, without having to lie and compromise your integrity, and the integrity of the gay community.


    I've always gone for this route. At our university's LGBT society's discussion groups, I spoke to people and they all thought I was selfish and crazy to deny unhealthy people healthy blood, but I stand by my decision.

    Until I can donate blood legally, and proudly as a gay man, I will not donate my blood on principle. I will not lie, I will not compromise my sexuality and integrity, even if it is potentially life-saving.

    I know we should be the better people and rise above it, but the thought that my blood could potentially be used to save the life of some homophobe that will go on to support anti-gay legislation takes it one step too far. I realise that this scenario is possible even if it were legal, but in some sense I would feel like I did the right thing and WAS able to rise above the haters.

    I guess this just goes hand in hand with the mentality that, at some point, activists get so fed up with bad treatment we take the "fuck you" approach and staunchily stand our ground where it seems a bit drastic. But like I said, it's what I have decided is right for me and for the gay community that I support.


    +1

    I gave blood years ago once. Before they stuck the needle in me I asked about what something on my form meant. The lady explained that they wouldn't be using my blood because I was identified as gay in the forms I filled out. Then I asked why they were taking blood then and she replied that there were people like me who didn't want to explain to coworkers why they weren't giving blood when the blood drive went around. This allows them to give blood without having to explain to coworkers about their status. I said that was dumb. Told her I didn't want to bleed for no reason and left.

    Who knows, times could be changing. At least in Canada. The article is from last year but I remember seeing it an being happy about progress that could be made. Not sure if anything happened yet.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/story/2012/07/05/sby-blood-donation-revision.html

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    Jan 06, 2013 9:25 PM GMT
    gymfreak1987 saidi know this is bad, and i know i shouldnt,but id only have sex with guys if im dating them as i want sex to mean something, i dont have sex otherwise, when giving blood i always lie and say im straight, i have rare blood and i love helping people, i think its wrong to say no to gay guys when they would run the same tests on others blood

    i know some of you may disagree but im going to continue doing this, does anyone else do the same?
    my thought is if my blood helps save a life (even if i dont know it) makes it worth it


    Would your thoughts be the same it you inadvertently caused someone to become infected with HIV? Are you so absolutely safe with your partners that you're status is undoubtedly HIV-? While it's true that there are likely straight people who are way more at risk than you are, it's up to the individual to estimate their own risk and consider that before passing it on to another (Or should be).

    Right now, the law doesn't make much sense because sex with a man doesn't automatically equal high risk and sex with a woman doesn't automatically equal low risk but the particular actions whether M/M or M/F are the defining factor. Hopefully, that changes soon. For now, if you really think you're safe enough and you really want to help save people, I guess you can go on doing it the way you have.
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    Jan 06, 2013 9:34 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidAs noble as that sounds, if you lie and say you're straight, then you're just empowering the homophobes, who would like nothing more than to shove us back into the closet. There are other ways to save lives, without having to lie and compromise your integrity, and the integrity of the gay community.


    But, is there integrity in putting your civil right recognition before life and death issue ?
    I don't give blood, because it would upset me to pretend I'm straight, but the OP post is making me reconsider my position.
    My blood is healthy and I have no real risk factor, and as blood supply are low, no giving could be just lazy on my part.
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    Jan 06, 2013 9:43 PM GMT
    The worst part is, we're in a damned if you don't because HIV really isn't a gay disease. Blood industry merely uses statistics...

    Which test are blood banks actually using? My fear is the test is even less accurate in "batch" testing. If a test can only detect a hundred copies per milliliter, batch testing, or diluting the sample with blood from other patients doesn't strike me as scientifically sound.

    http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/insite?page=basics-01-01

    Generally referred to as ELISA (enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay) or, alternatively, EIA (enzyme immunoassay), these tests detect HIV antibodies, which the body starts producing between 2 and 12 weeks after becoming infected with HIV. Current HIV antibody tests can detect antibodies as early as 3 weeks after exposure, which is faster than the 1st generation of antibody tests. Current HIV antibody tests are often referred to as 2nd generation (detecting IgG antibodies), 3rd generation (detecting both IgM and IgG antibodies), and 4th generation (detecting both HIV antibody and the p24 antigen, which comes directly from the HIV virus). All positive HIV antibody test results should be confirmed with a Western blot, a rapid test of a different brand than the initial test, or an HIV viral load test. Some HIV antibody tests will not detect HIV-2 (a strain of HIV that is found in western Africa) and some more uncommon strains of HIV-1. If HIV-2 infection is suspected, it is important to know whether the antibody test used is designed to detect both HIV-1 and HIV-2.
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    Jan 06, 2013 9:47 PM GMT
    ugh. the red cross are not "homophobes", they are complying with the FDA. there are sooooo many disqualifying factors. do you think the red cross hates pregnant women? because they aren't allowed to donate blood either. donating blood saves someones life. if your morals or whatever are more important than saving someones life, i think you are an asshole.
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    Jan 06, 2013 9:52 PM GMT
    I'm going to be honest. I'm planning on doing the same thing myself at the blood drive in a few weeks. I know Im negative and I don't think that people should be deprived of blood because of me being gay.

    Also I remember one time when I was in the hospital the nurse told me that they encourage African Americans to donate blood because so few do. I don't know of race actually makes a difference though.
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    Jan 06, 2013 9:59 PM GMT
    blackstrap saidugh. donating blood saves someones life. if your morals or whatever are more important than saving someones life, i think you are an asshole.

    I don't believe this is clear cut. I can live with being considered an asshole. If you were negative and then seroconverted after a blood transfusion, would that change your mind?

    It bothers me that the blood industry isn't set up to cover the costs of the most sensitive testing available. I have to hope that if I'm in a serious car accident on my way to the gym this afternoon, they made the effort to ensure that I don't get infected after decades of my efforts/choices to maintain negative status.

    Ultimately, the red cross is no longer in charge. Changes will have to be made by the FDA.
    http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/bloodbloodproducts/questionsaboutblood/ucm108186.htm
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    Jan 06, 2013 10:09 PM GMT
    Curious -- which blood type is the universal donor, and which is the universal recipient?
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    Jan 06, 2013 10:10 PM GMT
    well in that case, your bigger concern is getting blood than giving it. i hope you have some advanced directives set up. i think anyone who doesn't get tested before giving blood - not just for hiv - is completely irresponsible. that being said, if i was in a car accident i would much rather have hiv and be alive. in the world i operate in, military service members only give and get blood from each other. we regularly get tested so its not as much of a concern. i work in an emergency room - the only people ive ever seen get blood were for some extremely serious situations. so maybe i have a slanted view of the whole thing.
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    Jan 06, 2013 10:13 PM GMT
    gymfreak1987 saidi know this is bad, and i know i shouldnt,but id only have sex with guys if im dating them as i want sex to mean something, i dont have sex otherwise, when giving blood i always lie and say im straight, i have rare blood and i love helping people, i think its wrong to say no to gay guys when they would run the same tests on others blood

    i know some of you may disagree but im going to continue doing this, does anyone else do the same?
    my thought is if my blood helps save a life (even if i dont know it) makes it worth it

    Just tell the truth. It's important. The ends do not justify the means.
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    Jan 06, 2013 10:15 PM GMT
    blackstrap saidwell in that case, your bigger concern is getting blood than giving it. i hope you have some advanced directives set up. i think anyone who doesn't get tested before giving blood - not just for hiv - is completely irresponsible. that being said, if i was in a car accident i would much rather have hiv and be alive. in the world i operate in, military service members only give and get blood from each other. we regularly get tested so its not as much of a concern. i work in an emergency room - the only people ive ever seen get blood were for some extremely serious situations. so maybe i have a slanted view of the whole thing.


    What bothers me is that I would think they would test the blood for everything and not just HIV. I mean isn't that just the logical step?
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    Jan 06, 2013 10:17 PM GMT
    http://www.care2.com/causes/mexico-no-longer-bans-gay-men-from-donating-blood.html
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    Jan 06, 2013 10:25 PM GMT
    blackstrap saidwell in that case, your bigger concern is getting blood than giving it.

    You make a valid point. But, I'm not educated enough on blood shortage issues to advocate for looser FDA standards.
    I drive a large Volvo 4-door.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jan 06, 2013 10:28 PM GMT
    http://www.redcrossblood.org/learn-about-blood/what-happens-donated-blood/blood-testing

    "The American Red Cross performs laboratory tests for multiple infectious disease markers on every unit of donated blood."