WE CAN THANK THE DEMOCRATS FOR THE CURRENT HOUSING/ECONOMY MESS

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    Sep 23, 2008 10:12 PM GMT
    BUSH AND MCCAIN VOTED TO REFORM FANNIE MAI BUT DEMS BLOCKED IT BACK IN 2005


    [http://americanelephant.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/bush-and-mccain-each-tried-to-reform-fannie-mae-democrats-blocked-them-both-times/
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    Sep 24, 2008 2:24 AM GMT
    Simply clicking to read the post was stupid. As soon as I opened up the link and saw the banner with the buttons, I felt my IQ drop 20%.
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    Sep 24, 2008 3:02 AM GMT
    The Bush/Republican plan was for LESS oversight & regulation. This is so bogus. But fanatics will be fanatics...
  • MuslDrew

    Posts: 463

    Sep 24, 2008 4:52 AM GMT
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11781.htmlHTTP ADDRESS GOES HERE



    If you want to know how Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have survived scandal and crisis, consider this: Over the past decade, they have spent nearly $200 million on lobbying and campaign contributions.

    But the political tentacles of the mortgage giants extend far beyond their checkbooks.

    The two government-chartered companies run a highly sophisticated lobbying operation, with deep-pocketed lobbyists in Washington and scores of local Fannie- and Freddie-sponsored homeowner groups ready to pressure lawmakers back home.

    They’ve stacked their payrolls with top Washington power brokers of all political stripes, including Republican John McCain’s presidential campaign manager, Rick Davis; Democrat Barack Obama’s original vice presidential vetter, Jim Johnson; and scores of others now working for the two rivals for the White House.

    Fannie and Freddie’s aggressive political maneuvering has helped stave off increased regulation and preserve special benefits such as exemption from state and local income taxes and the ability to borrow at low rates.

    When their stock prices took a dive last week, their government allies extended another helping hand with a plan for the Treasury Department, the Federal Reserve and, possibly, Congress to shore up the companies.


    The housing crisis is sure to linger into the next administration, when the mortgage companies will inevitably be well-represented — no matter who’s in the White House.

    Fannie and Freddie’s political contacts exist deep in the two presidential campaigns.

    At least 20 McCain fundraisers have lobbied on behalf of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, netting at least $12.3 million in fees over the past nine years.

    Political insiders Arthur B. Culvahouse Jr., picked by McCain to vet his vice presidential nominees, and Jim Johnson, picked by Obama to perform the same function, once worked for the mortgage giants.

    And for years, Rick Davis served as president of an advocacy group led by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that defended the two companies against increased regulation.

    So far this election cycle, Freddie Mac’s political action committee and employees have contributed $555,567 to Senate and House candidates, and Fannie Mae’s PAC and employees have given more than $1.1 million, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

    In total, the two companies have spent $170 million on lobbying over the past decade, according to the Center, although they have scaled back in recent years. Last year, they paid $14.1 million in lobbying fees, a significant decrease from a high of more than $26 million in 2004. The connections of both campaigns to the well-entrenched mortgage companies highlight the difficulties the candidates face in selling voters on an outsider message.

    McCain’s campaign denied that its political connections have affected his view on the issue.

    “I have written every word that has to do with Fannie and Freddie in this campaign, and I don’t know who the people are that are linked to the companies,” said McCain’s economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin.

    “Sen. McCain has favored GSE reform in the past and continues to favor GSE reform,” Holtz-Eakin said. “That’s unchanged.”

    McCain has called the government’s weekend intervention in the struggling companies “correct,” saying he hoped that the action would “preserve the ability of Americans to obtain loans in order to buy a home and be able to afford mortgage payments they’re having to make.”



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    Sep 24, 2008 5:00 AM GMT
    what a bunch of bullshit
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    Sep 24, 2008 5:04 AM GMT
    onejock saidwhat a bunch of bullshit


    No shit!

    Neither party can wash its hands from this debacle. The Republicans had a majority in the Congress for six years and the White House for almost eight. During the Clinton years, Republicans held a Congressional majority during the second term.

    Plenty of blame to go around.
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    Sep 24, 2008 5:29 AM GMT
    When it comes to blame I doubt you can pin things that easily. Both sides have had their hands in the pie, congress and the Fannie/Freddie deal.

    Also if you note the dates, as they suggest you do on both the first articles it was during the time period when Republicans controlled both the house and the senate -- and pushed through the legislature much of what they wanted, so you can hardly blame the Democrats for opposing things. Also the only reason given is that they opposed it on the grounds of cheaper housing for the poor -- hardly something anyone would oppose, whether that was the real reason for opposing it or not.

    This is one of those messes that everyone has been a part of, or a part of not fixing, and there's been no laws proposed or otherwise that would have solved the whole problem.

    The issue now is how to get out of the current crises in the best way, and who can provide the best leadership, philosophy and ideas as to where to go from here. And that is what the voter has to decide.
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    Sep 24, 2008 5:40 AM GMT
    nycusa05 saidBUSH AND MCCAIN VOTED TO REFORM FANNIE MAI BUT DEMS BLOCKED IT BACK IN 2005


    [http://americanelephant.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/bush-and-mccain-each-tried-to-reform-fannie-mae-democrats-blocked-them-both-times/


    This is a true statement - McCain co-authored this - check it out - if you don't like the source above - research it elsewhere - you'll find it. Unfortunately, this was blocked by Democrats and even some Republicans. How unfortunate. We need McCain in office to help clean up situations exactly like this.
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    Sep 24, 2008 5:42 AM GMT
    This has already been Debunked in another forum

    Colbert_Nation saidMcCain deserves some credit for that bill which would have increased oversight over Fannie and Freddie, but it wouldn't have done anything to address the industry-wide problem. Here's a link:
    http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/721/
    Still, he deserves credit for that.

    In the interest of being 'fair and balanced', Obama and Durbin sponsored a bill in 2006 and reintroduced in 2007 that would have put a stop to fraudulent lending. republicans crushed it.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/idUSN2526422320070425

    I wouldn't even give McCain that much credit for anything. It was sponsored by Senator Chuck Hagel not that glory grabber McCain who only co-sponsored it ..
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-190
    and it never even made it to the floor for a vote by the MAJORITY REPUBLICANS at the time
    By the way, Hagel has nothing but praise for Obama in this article ..
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/20/chuck-hagel-takes-on-mcca_n_102775.html
  • styrgan

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    Sep 24, 2008 5:42 AM GMT
    I don't want to totally dismiss this. I said in another post that the Democrats are not angels when it comes to cozying up to the banking lobby.

    But the economic situation we are currently in was certainly not CAUSED by poor regulation of Fannie Mae. It was caused by greed on Wall Street, poor individual financial choices, and questionable trading obligations.
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    Sep 24, 2008 5:46 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidThis is a true statement - McCain co-authored this - check it out - if you don't like the source above - research it elsewhere - you'll find it. Unfortunately, this was blocked by Democrats and even some Republicans. How unfortunate. We need McCain in office to help clean up situations exactly like this.

    there you go lying again even though it was refuted last time you claimed that.
  • MuslDrew

    Posts: 463

    Sep 24, 2008 5:48 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidThis has already been Debunked in another forum

    Colbert_Nation saidMcCain deserves some credit for that bill which would have increased oversight over Fannie and Freddie, but it wouldn't have done anything to address the industry-wide problem. Here's a link:
    http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/721/
    Still, he deserves credit for that.

    In the interest of being 'fair and balanced', Obama and Durbin sponsored a bill in 2006 and reintroduced in 2007 that would have put a stop to fraudulent lending. republicans crushed it.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/idUSN2526422320070425

    I wouldn't even give McCain that much credit for anything. It was sponsored by Senator Chuck Hagel not that glory grabber McCain who only co-sponsored it ..
    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-190
    and it never even made it to the floor for a vote by the MAJORITY REPUBLICANS at the time
    By the way, Hagel has nothing but praise for Obama in this article ..
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/20/chuck-hagel-takes-on-mcca_n_102775.html


    Thank, I missed all this good stuff!
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    Sep 24, 2008 5:49 AM GMT
    The fact that McCain could forsee problems was not refuted or debunked - as you said before. There you go again. It is truth - McCain co-sponsored it - to continue to minimize his part in this is absurd. Research it all day and night - facts are stubborn things.....especially when documented.
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    Sep 24, 2008 5:53 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidIt was not refuted or debunked - as you said before. There you go again. It is truth - McCain co-sponsored it - to continue to minimize his part in this is absurd. Research it all day and night - facts are stubborn things.....especially when documented.

    Yes and the facts back up what is in my post. I am sorry your fantasies do not agree with fact.
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    Sep 24, 2008 5:57 AM GMT
    Be sorry all you want. Weep away. The fact remains McCain co-authored the bill and unfortunately it did not pass. No fantasy - no argument.

    How pathetic - give the man his credit - if your Obama had been around three years ago - and had done something to try to help - nobody in his right mind would try to take that away from Obama - so give it a rest.
  • styrgan

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    Sep 24, 2008 6:03 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidBe sorry all you want. Weep away. The fact remains McCain co-authored the bill and unfortunately it did not pass. No fantasy - no argument.

    How pathetic - give the man his credit - if your Obama had been around three years ago - and had done something to try to help - nobody in his right mind would try to take that away from Obama - so give it a rest.


    Can you provide a link other than a right-wing political blog known for half-truths?

    Something like factcheck, maybe.
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    Sep 24, 2008 6:03 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidBe sorry all you want. Weep away. The fact remains McCain co-authored the bill and unfortunately it did not pass. No fantasy - no argument. .

    No weeping here. Just laughing at the republicans trying to blame someone else in a panic because McCain could only accept that the economy is in crisis in the past few days. It never even was submitted for a vote in either the house or the senate despite the false claim that the democrats blocked it. Even if it had been submitted for a vote, republicans were in control at the time. icon_redface.gif
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    Sep 24, 2008 6:03 AM GMT
    Jockbod: read the above articles, as they do state the basics and overall view. McCain did support improved, limited to accounting measures, oversight, something though that would not have, and againt pointed out in multiple places have made a difference in the current cirsis. The reality is that Fannie and Freddie have been government sponsered entities that both sides have benefited and been a part of.

    If anything you should look you should look to McCains zigzagging all over the place last week as to his views and ability to divine what is right for, and how one should handle the economy. In this recent crisis he hasn't known what to do or how to respond and has been all over the map. To his benefit or credit, senator Obama, hasn't been terribly adept either, but to his credit he has been relatively stable and clear headed instead of all over the map -- for an analysis of things read conservative George Wills column on the subject out today -- hardly an endorsement of John McCain.
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    Sep 24, 2008 6:28 AM GMT
    wrerick saidJockbod: read the above articles, as they do state the basics and overall view. McCain did support improved, limited to accounting measures, oversight, something though that would not have, and againt pointed out in multiple places have made a difference in the current cirsis. The reality is that Fannie and Freddie have been government sponsered entities that both sides have benefited and been a part of.

    If anything you should look you should look to McCains zigzagging all over the place last week as to his views and ability to divine what is right for, and how one should handle the economy. In this recent crisis he hasn't known what to do or how to respond and has been all over the map. To his benefit or credit, senator Obama, hasn't been terribly adept either, but to his credit he has been relatively stable and clear headed instead of all over the map -- for an analysis of things read conservative George Wills column on the subject out today -- hardly an endorsement of John McCain.


    Update:

    And this latest on the McCain campaign relationship to Fannie/Freddie: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080924/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_freddie_mac
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    Sep 24, 2008 8:06 AM GMT
    Read this only if you want to know about the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This piece - by Vincent Gioia in Family Security Matters is for those interested in the truth about who understands and tried to do something about the financial mess caused by the Democrat piggy banks, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. You can also find this online in its entirety at:
    FamilySecurityMatters.org/publications/id.1233/pub_detail.asp


    The question that should be asked at this time is: “Which candidate foresaw the credit crisis and tried to do something about it”? The answer is that John McCain did and along with three other Senate Republicans he tried to reform the government’s involvement in mortgage lending three years ago, after an attempt by the Bush administration died in Congress two years earlier.

    McCain addressed the subject on May 25, 2006, when speaking in support of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 which was introduced to deal with the problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (via Beltway Snark):

    “Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were illusions deliberately and systematically created by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal. The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac. The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform. For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay. I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole. I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.”

    In this statement, McCain predicted not only the entire collapse that has forced the government to assume obligations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but also Bear Stearns and AIG. He identifies the falsification of financial records to benefit executives, including Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson, both of whom have worked as advisers in varying degrees to Barack Obama this year. McCain also noted their successful lobbying efforts to forestall oversight over their business practices. John McCain concludes with the warning that proved prescient over the past few days and weeks.

    The bill McCain supported and cosponsored would have done the following: “(1) in lieu of the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight of the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), an independent Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Agency which shall have authority over the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation, the Federal Home Loan Banks, the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac); and (2) the Federal Housing Enterprise Board. Sets forth operating, administrative, and regulatory provisions of the Agency, including provisions respecting: (1) assessment authority; (2) authority to limit nonmission-related assets; (3) minimum and critical capital levels; (4) risk-based capital test; (5) capital classifications and undercapitalized enterprises; (6) enforcement actions and penalties; (7) golden parachutes; and (icon_cool.gif reporting.”
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    Sep 24, 2008 9:04 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidRead this only if you want to know about the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This piece - by Vincent Gioia in Family Security Matters is for those interested in the truth about who understands and tried to do something about the financial mess caused by the Democrat piggy banks, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. You can also find this online in its entirety at:
    FamilySecurityMatters.org/publications/id.1233/pub_detail.asp

    HAHAHA! So you go to a right wing propaganda site to quote the kinda of people that started this lie to begin with! icon_lol.gif
    Well to show what kind of nutjob site this is just take a look at their document on how to survive a nuclear attack .. icon_rolleyes.gif
    http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/docLib/20080903_Nuclear_Attack_HowToSurvive.pdf
    You know right off the bat that the story has been falsified by the fact that the details have been falsified. For example it says ..
    He identifies the falsification of financial records to benefit executives, including Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson, both of whom have worked as advisers in varying degrees to Barack Obama this year.
    Well liar liar pants on fire .. Raines did not work for Obama
    http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/09/20/ex-fannie-ceo-raines-not-obama-advisor/
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/19/AR2008091903604.html
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/09/obamas_fannie_mae_connection.html

    You know if they can't get even the details that have been expounded again and again on the REAL NEWS SITES, what really can you believe from them?

    Really. Instead of going to these nut-job national enquirer sites, try getting the FACTS from a reputable news organization and spare us the blather. Now run along and build your nuclear bomb shelter in case McCain/Palin get in office and start something with Russia.
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    Sep 24, 2008 9:08 AM GMT
    nycusa, your link is exactly right.
    I'mTrying21Simply clicking to read the post was stupid. As soon as I opened up the link and saw the banner with the buttons, I felt my IQ drop 20%.
    Thanks for letting us know that you are incapable of giving fair consideration to anything that conflicts with your opinions, it saves us the time of taking you seriously.

    The article you dismiss out of hand cites the New York Times and the congressional record as sources, if you care to disprove the NYT and the Congressional record, give it a go.

    Ruck_usThe Republicans had a majority in the Congress for six years and the White House for almost eight.
    A majority is really meaningless if the minority party has enough votes to filibuster, which Democrats always have had. And which they did. Bush tried to pass reforms that would have stopped Fannie Mae's pracitces of buying up bad loans, McCain also tried. The Democrats on the housing committee blocked the bills from ever seeing the light of day. Despite Alan Greenspans, and yes, John McCain and Bush's warnings.

    Every Republican on the committee voted for the reforms and every Democrat voted against them. Why? Because Fannie Mae was a cash cow for Democrats.

    It is no coincidence that the top Democrat on that committee, Chris Dodd, has taken more money from Fannie Mae than anyone. Even more than #2 and #3, Barack and Hillary, the most likely presidential candidates. Obama has taken more from Fannie Mae in 3 short years than McCain has in his entire career.

    Ruck_usDuring the Clinton years, Republicans held a Congressional majority during the second term.
    First, Republicans held a majority since Clintons first term. They took over congress in 1994. (Remember that next time someone gives Clinton credit for the economy. Republicans were writing the budgets, not him) And secondly, it was Clinton, expanding on Carter's well-intentioned crappy policies, who was forcing lenders to give loans to people who otherwise wouldnt have qualified in the first place. All in the name of minority homeownership.

    ActiveAndFitThis has already been Debunked in another forum
    No it hasnt. From your own source:
    [quote]But the current crisis arose because banks and mortgage companies made risky “subprime” loans to people with poor credit histories [/quote]And why were they making risky subprime loans to people who were likely to not be able to pay them back? Because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were buying these loans up like hotcakes, in essence rewarding banks for doing do. And why was Fannie snapping up these loans? Two reasons:

    1. Carter and Clinton era requirements to give loans to people who otherwise wouldnt be able to qualify for them, and

    2. The Democrat operatives running Fannie, namely Raihns, Johnson, Jamie Gorelick, were giving themselves multi-millions in bonuses for the more of these loans they snapped up.

    And again, from your own souce...why is it that the legislation McCain was pushing wouldnt have worked according to your source? ...[quote]The extent of the problems was not yet fully known, and it’s a leap of faith to suggest that regulators granted expanded power would have noticed a deterioration in Fannie and Freddie’s loan portfolios soon enough[/quote]So thats your "debunking" right there. In other words your "debunking" is a bunch of bunk itself.

    The entire challenge to McCain's efforts to reform Fannie Mae is that it might not have worked fast enough. Perhaps it wouldnt, but it was an atempt based on warnings from government reports and Alan Greenspan and Democrats blocked it.

    You have debunked nothing. Facts are stubborn things.

    ActiveAndFitIn the interest of being 'fair and balanced', Obama and Durbin sponsored a bill in 2006 and reintroduced in 2007 that would have put a stop to fraudulent lending. republicans crushed it.

    Do you even read the things you post? Obamas legislation wouldnt have done ANYTHING to avert the crisis. Again, from your very own source: [quote]The new legislation, co-sponsored by fellow Illinois Democrat Sen. Richard Durbin, would target anyone who uses false information to secure a property or sell a mortgage product.[/quote]But no one -- at least no one being taken seriously -- is suggesting that the current crisis has anything to do with people lying to get loans or banks lying to lendees. The problem is created by bad policy -- forcing banks to loan to people who are bad credit risks and rewarding them the more they did so. And millions in credit counseling??? Please! Do be serious.
    ActiveAndFitI wouldn't even give McCain that much credit for anything. It was sponsored by Senator Chuck Hagel not that glory grabber McCain who only co-sponsored it
    I dont know how familiar you are with basic civics, but any bill requires a co-sponsor to bring it before congress. And, yes, its clear you wont give credit where it is due. That only reflects poorly on you though.
    ActiveAndFit and it never even made it to the floor for a vote by the MAJORITY REPUBLICANS at the time
    You clearly have a problem with remedial civics. You should know by now that the minority can thwart the majority in any number of ways, as Democrats did, by filibustering, or as was very popular with the Democrat minority, simply threatening a filibuster, and by parliamentary procedures as well.

    The fact remains, despite all your attempts to deny it, Republicans wrote the legislation, republicans sponsored the legislation, Bush pushed similar legislation, and Democrats blocked all of it because they both wanted to keep giving loans to people who couldnt qualify for them, as socialists are wont to do, and because they were using Fannie like a campaign piggy bank.
    ActiveAndFitBy the way, Hagel has nothing but praise for Obama in this article ..
    Hagel has praise for Obama primarily because, like Obama, he was disasterously wrong on the surge, as they are both disasterously wrong on Iran. You'll note Obama has "repositioned" himself on Iran several times since.
    MuslDrewThank, I missed all this good stuff!
    I wouldn't thank him for misinforming you.
    StyrganBut the economic situation we are currently in was certainly not CAUSED by poor regulation of Fannie Mae. It was caused by greed on Wall Street, poor individual financial choices, and questionable trading obligations.
    Actually, Fannie Mae is the central cause of this crisis, coupled with socialist policies/regulation forcing banks to loan to people who are bad credit risks.

    here are two very good pieces on the roots of the crisis:http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=307061229501695

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=307061748542374

    And this one is a very good overview of Democrats blocking reform, and engaging in cronysim and corruption at Fannie Mae:

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306978378974502

    And another:

    http://aei.org/include/pub_print.asp?pubID=28651
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    Sep 24, 2008 9:10 AM GMT
    And here is one documenting some of the efforts of Republicans, Bush, McCain, the Wall Street Journal, Greenspan and others to warn of and reform the shenanningans at Fannie Mae, and Democrats blocking of same:

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=307059043232094

    And for those who would rather watch video than read:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHj8-HSi5AA

    Facts are stubborn things, and despite Democrats attempts to obfuscate and misinform, they can be gotten at.

    I give them due credit... they started out wanting to help people (and, honestly, themselves), the problem is, good intentions do not equal good policy, and making banks give out loans to bad risks for whatever reason, is never good policy.
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    Sep 24, 2008 9:19 AM GMT
    Hugh_Mongoose saidAnd here is one documenting some of the efforts of Republicans, Bush, McCain, the Wall Street Journal, Greenspan and others to warn of and reform the shenanningans at Fannie Mae, and Democrats blocking of same: ETC MORE FICTION from a phoney .. and yes its already been debunked

    lets see .. Member since: 09/23/08 icon_eek.gif well what do you know a fake profile created just for the occasion ...
    icon_lol.gif I see another phony profile phantom writer has struck icon_lol.gif
    Well, as long people can look at the real news sources I posted, the McCain lies are exposed and the looney conspiracy buffs are exposed also. Dream on guys.

    Funny how all the source are "editorials" from obscure media sites .. can we have some real journalism for a change? (oh and that rules out FOX)
    Hugh_Mongoose saidYou have debunked nothing. Facts are stubborn things.
    HMMM, the same expression Jockbod used ..
    ActiveAndFitIn the interest of being 'fair and balanced', Obama and Durbin sponsored a bill in 2006 and reintroduced in 2007 that would have put a stop to fraudulent lending. republicans crushed it.
    Do you even read the things you post?
    Actually that was someone else's post embedded in mine, but it doesn't matter because the fake poster is suffering from paranoia of socialists. some one should debunk that phony profile from realjock. Now run along before the socialists drop an house on you too.
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    Sep 24, 2008 9:23 AM GMT
    ruck_us said
    onejock saidwhat a bunch of bullshit


    The Republicans had a majority in the Congress for six years....



    They had it for many more years than that!