I hate grammar nazis

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    Jan 14, 2013 6:01 AM GMT
    Just had a discussion today with someone who was insisting that the inability of people these days to distinguish between "who" and "whom" amongst other grammar issues is part of whats wrong with the current generation (this person was a bit older than myself). Despite my efforts to convince him that he was mistaken, it didn't seem to have any effect.

    What bugs me about people like this is not only that they're pretentious but also that have no concept at all about how language actually works.

    So I wanted to post this chapter from Steven Pinker's The Language Instinct called "The Language Mavens," which goes into detail as to why the above line of reasoning is fundamentally flawed. If more people read this, the less grammar nazis there would be in the world.

    http://ling.kgw.tu-berlin.de/lexicography/data/MAVENS.html


    #End rant
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:03 AM GMT
    2vNty.jpg
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:07 AM GMT
    Today's corruptions will become tomorrow's standards, as it has always been the case with most languages especially English icon_lol.gif
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:09 AM GMT
    The solution is easy.

    Just use proper grammar.

    Problem solved.
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:11 AM GMT
    Narciso saidThe solution is easy.

    Just use proper grammar.

    Problem solved.


    Lamenting the loss of future subjunctive en español? icon_lol.gif
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:14 AM GMT
    nicodegallo said
    Narciso saidThe solution is easy.

    Just use proper grammar.

    Problem solved.


    Lamenting the loss of future subjunctive en español? icon_lol.gif


    I never get people who are daunted by English grammar. I'm like dude, English is my second language, believe me, it's a fucking easy one as far as linguistic grammatical structures go.
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:15 AM GMT
    In the future, we'll all b speking lyk dis. So U betta getz 2 practisize now. k? thx. #yolo
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:16 AM GMT
    Fewer.
    ...fewer grammar nazis...
    not "less" icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:19 AM GMT
    mindgarden saidFewer.
    ...fewer grammar nazis...
    not "less" icon_rolleyes.gif


    Oh snap, Muphry's Law strikes again!
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:20 AM GMT
    xrichx saidIn the future, we'll all b speking lyk dis. So U betta getz 2 practisize now. k? thx. #yolo


    Um, in Southern or Cockney, please?
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:34 AM GMT
    Narciso said



    it's... [an] easy one as far as linguistic grammatical structures go.


    I'll agree with Narciso. Grammatically speaking, English can be easy. You don't have the memorize how verbs are conjugated accoring to the subject, the forms of subjunctive, how and when to use it, imperfect past, I think that's how it's called, [such as I used to do....], and how imperfect verbs are conjugated in every tense.

    Glad Spanish is my mother language.
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    Jan 14, 2013 6:38 AM GMT
    I agree that misusing who or whom isn't the biggest of deals, but you seem overly worked up about grammar. Are you an ungrammar nazi?

    While I'm here, why is there no room between: Doesn't care about grammar, and EXTREME PSYCHOTIC GRAMMAR NAZI?

    You can't give someone a small tip about something they weren't aware of without being called a grammar nazi.
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    Jan 14, 2013 7:59 AM GMT
    SkinnyBitch saidI agree that misusing who or whom isn't the biggest of deals, but you seem overly worked up about grammar. Are you an ungrammar nazi?

    While I'm here, why is there no room between: Doesn't care about grammar, and EXTREME PSYCHOTIC GRAMMAR NAZI?

    You can't give someone a small tip about something they weren't aware of without being called a grammar nazi.


    I'm not an ungrammar nazi and I don't believe that grammar is not important at all. What I'm saying is that most people's idea of what constitutes grammar (don't split infinitives, whom vs who, singular they, etc) are irrelevant or misunderstand the bigger grammatical framework within which these seemingly ungrammatical forms operate.

    Using "who" instead of "whom" isn't making a grammatical mistake, nor is saying something like "the student failed their exam." These sentences are perfectly grammatical and follow the rules of English. Yes, they violate the proscribed rules taught to us in school but those "rules" are inherently flawed because they contradict the innate rules of English that each and every native speaker unconsciously knows.

    Read the link I posted in the OP.
  • Karl

    Posts: 5787

    Jan 14, 2013 8:13 AM GMT
    it's funny when I have never been corrected by a native speaker (they're trying to be polite maybe) but my Vietnamese friends keep doing it icon_rolleyes.gif
    Some people really want to help me , I appreciate that.
    And the rest just want to show off their English skill , I can see that by their attitude.
    And yeah , I hate them.
  • TheBizMan

    Posts: 4091

    Jan 14, 2013 8:20 AM GMT
    This is exactly why this essay did not deserve a 100%.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2934155/

    Edit: I meant to quote xrichx.
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    Jan 14, 2013 8:22 AM GMT
    Karl saidit's funny when I have never been corrected by a native speaker (they're trying to be polite maybe) but my Vietnamese friends keep doing it icon_rolleyes.gif
    Some people really want to help me , I appreciate that.
    And the rest just want to show off their English skill , I can see that by their attitude.
    And yeah , I hate them.
    From what I've read your English skills aren't poor enough to require correcting.
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    Jan 14, 2013 8:27 AM GMT
    This reminds me of one day that I was working in a restaurant as a host. An elderly lady had asked for a table for two. As another lady approached the door I asked, "Is this her?" The lady immediately turned to me and said, "'Is this she?' If you say her, you are introducing a possessive pronoun without an object." I was thinking so many thoughts at that moment...

    Anyway, I can understand the OP about the unnecessary comments regarding the usage of "who vs. whom," but I'll admit I am bothered with the misuse of contractions (i.e. "your" or "you're"), etc. If you want hard grammar, however, try Russian. You're welcome.

    Honestly, I have reread this message three times to see if there were any grammatical mistakes, haha!
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jan 14, 2013 1:19 PM GMT
    basically, what you're saying is it's not important to write correctly because linguistic utility still exists in instances of flawed grammar; however, that's like saying it doesn't matter if you hit a wrong note when playing a concerto. a wrong note is a wrong note. "who" and "whom" are as different as "i" and "me." if you think it's not poor grammar to conflate the two, then you must also think "me went to the store" is fine. one refers to subjects. one refers to objects. i find it funny that people rant all the time about grammar nazis in spite of the fact that grammar is just a simple list of rules. if you cannot understand basic grammar, it speaks to your inability to handle logic.
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    Jan 14, 2013 1:32 PM GMT
    calibro saidbasically, what you're saying is it's not important to write correctly because linguistic utility still exists in instances of flawed grammar; however, that's like saying it doesn't matter if you hit a wrong note when playing a concerto. a wrong note is a wrong note. "who" and "whom" are as different as "i" and "me." if you think it's not poor grammar to conflate the two, then you must also think "me went to the store" is fine. one refers to subjects. one refers to objects. i find it funny that people rant all the time about grammar nazis in spite of the fact that grammar is just a simple list of rules. if you cannot understand basic grammar, it speaks to your inability to handle logic.


    Or you type on an iPad
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jan 14, 2013 1:35 PM GMT
    Probably a few more important things in the world to be consumed about than those words...lol
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    Jan 14, 2013 1:43 PM GMT
    The language is not defined by grammar. The language exists before the grammar. Grammar is just a sort of failed attempt to try to put logical rules on something (language) that is completely not logical.
    That's why grammar nazis are most of the time completely vain.
    BUT, people should know that if they write with very poor grammar and lots of spelling mistakes, it just makes them look or sound stupid. It's not really fair but it's the way it is.
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    Jan 14, 2013 1:44 PM GMT
    Are you still harping on that dude's grade? Are we even sure that particular work was even for an English class? Let it go...


    TheBizMan saidThis is exactly why this essay did not deserve a 100%.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2934155/

    Edit: I meant to quote xrichx.
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    Jan 14, 2013 1:49 PM GMT
    Narciso saidThe solution is easy.

    Just use proper grammar.

    Problem solved.


    Exactly. God forbid people actually pay attention in English class.
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    Jan 14, 2013 1:51 PM GMT
    mindgarden saidFewer.
    ...fewer grammar nazis...
    not "less" icon_rolleyes.gif


    You are my new best friend. Now, if only we should get people to properly use adverbs. It's "Drive safely." Not "Drive safe."
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    Jan 14, 2013 1:54 PM GMT
    Grammar.

    Its the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.

    JK..couldn't resist icon_smile.gif