FORUMS > Dating & Relationships Forum Rules

This pertains to another thread, but I thought it deserved a place of its own.
Please tell us how you'd handle this:


Picture it:

You meet a nice guy at your local/favorite/unexpected place to meet guys. He has gorgeous eyes, is strikingly handsome, and seems pretty confident. He's totally your type and the perfect age, and is clearly into you.

One thing leads to another, and you find yourself on a date with him. He's funny, witty, charming and gracious.

Then it happens. In the course of a story, he slips in "All the sudden", "irregardless", and "ironically"(when you clearly know he meant "coincidentally"). Not a lot, just a couple of times.

And, you just know, he probably has terrible spelling and punctuation problems.

Good God. What do you do? Deal breaker?? Do you correct him, possibly embarrassing him? Let it slide?

How would you deal with this situation?

Disclaimer: This situation is not real. It has never happened to me. I am not a grammar nazi. This scenario does not necessarily reflect my opinions. This would NEVER be a deal breaker for me! Just want to find out how some of you feel.

I'd sit straighter, and correct him coldly. Then he'd be like insulted, and I'd be like uppity, and he'd say 'forget it', and I wouldn't reply, and we'd finish our dinner in silence.

And I'll go home alone...

And Mighty_Q, it's "all of its own" not "all of it owns."...

See? I'm hopeless.

Thanks, Sed. I knew I could count on someone for that.

It was on purpose, of course.......or was it??

Mighty_Q saidThanks, Sed. I knew I could count on someone for that.

It was on purpose, of course.......or was it??

Ya. Heil Websterfuhrer!

While there are things that may annoy me, none of this would be a deal breaker. I'd only consider it a deal breaker (as I have in the past) if he were arrogantly egregious in his misuse of the language. I'm not perfect and therefore, I have no right to expect perfection from him.

Simple ignorance of 'the law' is tolerable. Prideful ignorance is not.
(Expecially when I ax him a question, and he don't know the answer.)

Well said bgcat57! Being first generation Cuban on my dad side. He pounded good grammar in to us...because his was so bad. He would not even teach us spanish because of it.

I would be more concerned if he is a nice person at heart and you don't fine that out on just one or two dates. If someone usage of english is a bit off.

Some people are so shallow, and lack depth, and have nothing better to worrie about. or it helps them rise above their inabilities; we all have em.

Well Educated, does not always = smart!

I married him.

Then some of us such as myself are Dyslexic and it shows up in our writing and well as when we talk.

I make mistakes all the time. Other people make mistakes all the time.

I love it when I stop making a mistake thanks to being corrected enough times. But if a guy has no desire to improve themselves than it is a big turn off. It isn't just about grammar, it can be symptomatic of a larger complacency with mediocrity. And that is a major boner-killer.

Ducky44 saidBeing first generation Cuban on my dad side. He pounded good grammar in to us...because his was so bad. He would not even teach us spanish because of it.

I've noticed that the only people I've ever known, who speak close to perfect English, are some practicing professors of English that are in a University, and people to whom English is a second language from childhood (e.g. started to learn English between the ages of 5-10).

I'm not perfect at grammar myself, so I would probably let it slide, but correct him every once in a while, and correct him if its a grammar rule EVERYONE should know by now.

Oops. I meant it's.

I wouldn't bother met at all. I would be bothered if he wasn't funny, witty, gracious or charm full!


Mighty_Q I hope you don't let this get in between this person and yourself.

Fo'get about it . . unless he starts saying "would of," "could of," or "should of." Then punch him and anyone else you hear saying that.

Being a True Blue Aussie, whom uses slang I don't even think about, and coming to an American site. There are people whom have trouble understanding One. But this is not my inability.

Aussies/Australians, have no trouble understanding Americans, even the people from down south. Yet so many American have trouble with English, that is not American; not having a go. yet those whom have no trouble at all. Americans can even find this a problem, when I'm talking with them too, yet I have no problem understanding them.

Always found it amusing being in the USA. We both speak English, albeit one is Aussie, and the other American. Yet there is this big communication problem. Well I've dated an American for 15 years now. It's never been a problem for him.

The real English is the Queens English, yet not all Pommies are able to speak this either.

Mighty_Q saidAnd, you just know, he probably has terrible spelling and punctuation problems.

Good God. What do you do? Deal breaker?? Do you correct him, possibly embarrassing him? Let it slide?

How would you deal with this situation?

As a former magazine editor I can't read something without mentally correcting the spelling and grammatical errors. But in social speech you should be reluctant at first to draw attention to the mistake, for the same polite reason you might also disregard some other little faux pas you observe.

(An open zipper is the exception, allowing him to immediately correct it, or for you to accept the invitation equally fast)

And don't be too quick to judge those with flawed speaking skills. I dated a guy for 2 years who was especially prone to malapropisms (also once called "Gorceyisms" after the comic actor whose character spoke them). Things like "It was an optical delusion" instead of "illusion."

But my word-challenged ex-BF is a very successful executive, from a wealthy & important family. He can speak, read & write Russian, and also French, from his years with the family business in Paris (where he still keeps a home along with another in Europe, and several others in the US). He's very prominent & respected, on every kind of board you can imagine, and his counsel, and friendship, are desired by many. All that despite the fact he can say the most ridiculous things at times.

I'd never correct him in public, and embarrass him further. And even in private I'd be indirect, conversationally restating what he'd just said, but using the correct word or pronunciation. He'd usually catch his mistake that way, and the next time he'd copy me with the correct word I had just used myself, but without our ever having had to mention it.

Oddly, I love good-natured "put-down" humor from my Army days, even when I'm at the receiving end. But there are certain things that hit at a person's dignity, and there's a personal sensitivity variable you have to learn in the other person. Until you know what that is with confidence, correcting others is risky.

So go easy with this guy, and give him some slack at first. Who knows, he may be a very smart, successful guy who merely has a speech flaw, like my ex.

correct usage is to say "WHO uses slang" ... not "whom uses slang."

Not a deal breaker..one thing is the occasional incorrect use of some expressions and / or words and another one is being illiterate and ignorant..if he is the latter than that would be a deal breaker for me.

Kozmeka saidI wouldn't bother met at all. I would be bothered if he wasn't funny, witty, gracious or charm full!


Mighty_Q I hope you don't let this get in between this person and yourself.

No, Koz, this really has nothing to do with me. I got the idea from another thread that started out as a "Words and phrases that bother you" thread, and quickly morphed into an "everything that bugs me about grammar, punctuation and spelling" thread.

I have no problem with people occasionally using bad grammar. I do it to sometimes. And spelling doesn't really bug me either. My father and my younger brother both have a learning disability and can't spell to save their lives.

As long as I know what you're trying to say, we're all good.

I was just interested to know how others felt.

My Grammer was a Nazi

Skotlake saidFo'get about it . . unless he starts saying "would of," "could of," or "should of." Then punch him and anyone else you hear saying that.

How on Earth would you know he wasn't saying "would've", "could've" or "should've"?

Basically because he's pretty (and younger), you'll let him slide.

If he wasn't, you wouldn't give him the time of day, and you'd correct him constantly and probably roll your eyes while doing so.

....and if you were into him, you'd brag to your friends about all his positives, yet if you weren't into him, you tell your friends how this dumbass spoke like a 12 year old....

I'm just saying..............

Mighty_Q said

Skotlake saidFo'get about it . . unless he starts saying "would of," "could of," or "should of." Then punch him and anyone else you hear saying that.

How on Earth would you know he wasn't saying "would've", "could've" or "should've"?

Yeah, that's mostly a writing issue, seldom a phonetic one. One of my degrees is in Speech (when you come from New Jersey you have to do SOMETHING about it), which I think has caused me to love English perhaps as much as George Bernard Shaw, who's alleged to have said:

"He who truly knows English, can never know another language."

That's been my excuse for over 40 years, to lamely explain why my French & German are so abysmal, and why I've totally given up on ever wanting to speak anything but my native tongue.

I think English has become the Langue française of the modern world. Thanks first to the British Empire, then to the economic power of the United States, and finally to the explosion of the Internet, which originated here. I love to visit foreign language sites, and see all the pure English in their buttons and pull-downs.

Which means, for the purposes of this thread, that we Americans who gave the world the English Internet, need to set some kind of example. If we don't respect our own language, how can others? And how can they understand us?

There are many concepts of "power" in the world: military, economic, political, and so forth. But there is also cultural, which includes language. I foresee a future world where the US is no longer supreme in many things, including military & economic.

But culture may be our legacy, that's makes the US endure and lead when our military & economic influence has waned. If that becomes the case, I think we ought to know how to speak our own language.

I don't know if it would be a deal-breaker, this misspoken man. But I'll tell you that an average fellow with flawless grammar gives me an erection.

Until a date becomes a relationship, correcting a date or any speaker does not accomplish ANYTHING for the grammar challenged.
People who feel the need to correct mere strangers are only feeding their own emotional needs and zero needs of the bad speaker. A person like this would be MY deal breaker!

Deal breaker for me...and I teach languages.

QUOTEGood God. What do you do?

I'd poke fun of him in an obviously playful manner, and expect him to make a good comeback remark to get back at me (we're assuming he's witty right?)

I don't mind bad spelling or grammar at all, but I'm a firm believer that everyone should be able to laugh at and be laughed at for their and other people's various attributes, good or bad.

Step 1: Find a bed.

Step 2: Put a pillow on the bed.

Step 2: Shove him face down into the pillow.

Problem solved.

It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I can forgive the grammatical mistakes of anyone who doesn't run around trying to correct others'.

Once we've established some freedom to talk more openly with each other I would bring it up. But I would do so in a private setting so as not to embarrass him in public.

I'd hope that this hypothetical male dream boat would take it well as I would prefer to be corrected when I make errors. I think when done in a tactful way it's not abusive.

That pet peeve was in a couple of scenes in the movie All Over the Guy http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250202/

Anyone remember that? Richard Ruccolo lying down in the bed makes me all wiggly.

Let it slide at first, but if I notice it happening a lot I would correct him, that's only if I was absolutely sure that I was right.

Reason: I was in ESL for 5 years and I often catch the "song" of the language and when some thing's not right you can hear it in speech.

That's my excuse at correcting people when I do, and I totally expect people to do the same to me.

Squarejaw saidStep 1: Find a bed.

Step 2: Put a pillow on the bed.

Step 2: Shove him face down into the pillow.

Problem solved.

Step 3: repeat 2nd Step 2 multiple times in quick succession until you feel the task is complete.

Step 4: Clean up.

Say:

I find your linguistic proficiency wanting. Furthermore, I hold one's level of education as a highly rated, though arbitrary, segregation criterion. You are beneath me; you do not elevate me but merely serve to bring me down to the inferior level at which I hold your personal worth. I can have no further dealings with you, as you do not increase my wealth or status. Good day.

Then steal his lollipop and kick his ass to the curb. BAM!


P.S. I read an injunction against harassment today where the defendant spelled maliciously 'mishisly', and easement as 'eavesment'. His father is a arrogant prick but I honestly thought the guy wouldn't be such a retard.

Musclebucket saidMy Grammer was a Nazi

I ce wot you did thar.

Har har har.

Mighty_Q said

No, Koz, this really has nothing to do with me. I got the idea from another thread that started out as a "Words and phrases that bother you" thread, and quickly morphed into an "everything that bugs me about grammar, punctuation and spelling" thread.

I have no problem with people occasionally using bad grammar. I do it to sometimes. And spelling doesn't really bug me either. My father and my younger brother both have a learning disability and can't spell to save their lives.

As long as I know what you're trying to say, we're all good.

I was just interested to know how others felt.

Im glad to hear this ,

Grammar Nazis are a huge turn off!!! I think there are other bad things on a man to be worried about!

Take care and see you around!!

Buckwheet saidSay:

I find your linguistic proficiency wanting. Furthermore, I hold one's level of education as a highly rated, though arbitrary, segregation criterion. You are beneath me; you do not elevate me but merely serve to bring me down to the inferior level at which I hold your personal worth. I can have no further dealings with you, as you do not increase my wealth or status. Good day.

Then steal his lollipop and kick his ass to the curb. BAM!


P.S. I read an injunction against harassment today where the defendant spelled maliciously 'mishisly', and easement as 'eavesment'. His father is a arrogant prick but I honestly thought the guy wouldn't be such a retard.

Cruel cruel man! To take someone else's lollipop like that... I hope your soul burns in hell!

Sedative said
Cruel cruel man! To take someone else's lollipop like that... I hope your soul burns in hell!

Wait....so you believe in hell? Wouldn't that mean then that you believe........




oh, nevermind.






LOL

I was raised by grammatically correct parents at home - and had the same kinds of teachers and professors, so I guess I have an ear for grammatical errors. If I was out with a guy (as in the O.P.'s example) I would say nothing. If we became serious, I would try to help him in a nice way. I wouldn't want him to be embarrassed or looked down upon.......just because he didn't have the opportunity to have this drilled into his head all is life at every turn, every day, until he was half dead - like I did!

Jockbod48 saidI was raised by grammatically correct parents at home - and had the same kinds of teachers and professors, so I guess I have an ear for grammatical errors. If I was out with a guy (as in the O.P.'s example) I would say nothing. If we became serious, I would try to help him in a nice way. I wouldn't want him to be embarrassed or looked down upon.......just because he didn't have the opportunity to have this drilled into his head all is life at every turn, every day, until he was half dead - like I did!

Now thats totally understandable! I was born in the USA, but, raised in Mexico. The only English I learned in school was was from kindergarden through 2nd grade (I know, I was a baby). After 11 years of living in Mexico, I came back and took some ESL Classes for 1 semester and got all my English back (whatever I know now) of course, it has improved over the time. At times my partner tends to correct me for my own good but, he never puts me down for it!

So when I see threads like this, when people worry to much about grammar over a relationship, it really puts me down as I did not have the opportunity of having english in my daily life! however, I am DAMN PROUD OF WHO I AM AND WHAT I KNOW SO FAR! I learened new things as days go by!

So screw the grammer nazis

I may forgive that, but if he dares split an infinitive. . ..

I would have to check his dangling participle...

In all seriousness, I would let him know his grammar is incorrect [probably not on the first date]...and it would come from a place of love and care...and maybe lust...

- David

If he was foreign born and educated like many of the men I date, I would let it go and move on, but he was a man who was born and raised in the US, I would be concerned about his level of intelligence and education and not continue the relationship most likely.

i'm an english teacher; my boyfriend is a pharmacist; i let his grammar slide (although he does ask for help) and he let's my ignorance of science slide (although i too ask for help); i would never let somebody's ignorance on one subject be a deal breaker; but pure ignorance on many levels, that would be a deal breaker

bgcat57 said

Sedative said
Cruel cruel man! To take someone else's lollipop like that... I hope your soul burns in hell!

Wait....so you believe in hell? Wouldn't that mean then that you believe........




oh, nevermind.






LOL

Hell hath no fury like a gay man stoned.

I would let it slide, and I wouldn't presume a lot of spelling mistakes and punctuation problems would be inevitable. These would be dealbreakers, I'm afraid. That is, unless English was not his first language.

sfinboston saidThen some of us such as myself are Dyslexic and it shows up in our writing and well as when we talk.

I agree...,
Being dyslexic as well, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt on the slips in grammar.

However, I have no use for people that knowingly continue to use bad grammar, or even worse, the mindless use of culturally acceptable grammar of the sake of "being hip,"

Not a deal breaker as long as he has other intellectual strengths. My brother finished top of his high school class, was a doctor at 24, but he could not spell his way out of a wet paper bag. He has improved through sheer willpower (see MunchingZombie's comment above) and effort to improve his modest spelling and grammar abilities. The internet has also helped.

heh, I'd take the piss. But definitely not a deal breaker.

As a fellow RealJocker once quoted: Bad grammar is something up with which I will not put.



I think it's a matter of priorities. In ranking the importance of attributes like a strong moral compass, ambition, selflessness, looks, humor, world view or overall intelligence, where does a handle of the English language fall?

For me it's up there. If he was scoring high in other areas that could compensate, I might consider letting it slide. But if looks are the only thing to fill the void between his ears.... I would prolly send him packing irregardless.

hafakasi, did you just say "prolly"?!


Squarejaw> Step 1...
Step 2...
Step 2....

Sigh. So pretty, but our beloved Squarejaw can't even count to 3. Sniff.


bgcat57> I've noticed that the only people I've ever known, who speak close to perfect English, are some practicing professors of English that are in a University, and people to whom English is a second language from childhood (e.g. started to learn English between the ages of 5-10).

Harrumph. English is my 3rd language... I guess that explains why (not being anywhere near a professor of English) my English isn't "close to perfect". Nonetheless I am anal retentive. One of my profs at the (now defunct) Humanities department of the College of Engineering at the University of Michigan once said that some engineers see language as just another system and can be meticulous in its usage, including spelling.

Oh, any errors I make are the fault of my keyboard!


MunchingZombie> I love it when I stop making a mistake thanks to being corrected enough times. But if a guy has no desire to improve themselves than it is a big turn off. It isn't just about grammar, it can be symptomatic of a larger complacency with mediocrity. And that is a major boner-killer.

I agree, but just because MZ and I are elitist intellectual snobs doesn't mean everyone has to be.

Seriously, I think what's important is for people to be on the same page. The English professor might not stay in a relationship with a guy who hasn't ever read Shakespeare let alone can't spell his name. And the guy who spends the weekend working in his wood shop might find the professor to be a dull bookworm. Even if there is a rule in this, there can always be exceptions (I know a snobby ivy league doctor and a mechanic who have been happily coupled for some 14 years now).

caesarea4 saidhafakasi, did you just say "prolly"?!

I did. That's one of my favorites! AND I should point out that "irregardless" has been added to many dictionaries, including Webster's. If enough people screw it up, apparently it becomes acceptable.

I always thought the right people had to screw it up for there to be a return to "normalcy".

It's a good thing we're not dating, because the first time I heard you say "prolly" I'd take you out back and shoot you. I don't understand how people can lose one consonant (e.g. the "c" in "picture", not "pitcher") let alone 3 and essentially what amounts to an entire syllable.


Oh, gawd. I am a grammar nazi.
How did this happen? Is there a known cure?

Prolly go to the libery to lern me sumthin' then.

Being a Brit who was not taught English grammar at school I am acutely aware of my deficiencies... especially living in Ukraine and being corrected by Ukrainians on my grammar but this is the benefit of being educated in state school when a left wing education board ran things and thought that we did not need schooling in grammar, so long as we could communicate... which is a nice thought until you want to learn other languages you have no f*&^%^%$ clue what a definite article is, direct v indirect object etc....

and now... i continually promise myself that i will begin learning English grammar properly and then find more interesting things to do

but the most amusing thing is to hear of people speak of the Queen's English..... especially when Lizzie is of German decent......

nuff said!

hafakasi said

caesarea4 saidhafakasi, did you just say "prolly"?!

I did. That's one of my favorites! AND I should point out that "irregardless" has been added to many dictionaries, including Webster's. If enough people screw it up, apparently it becomes acceptable.

It's true... when enough people "screw it up" it becomes acceptable.

Language is not something absolute. Languages are dynamic and in constant change. the "rules" of languages (like grammar) are really just descriptive tools that shows how the language is at a certain point in time. The language belongs to the users (people who are actually alive today) and new generations will always find new and creative ways to express themselves, so a language is not easily contained by a fixed set of rules.
Older people (and grammar Nazis) have always criticized younger peoples' language for not being proper or correct, but "correct" language 100 years ago wasn't correct 500 years ago. So if a new expression or new use of an existing word is popular enough (to exceed mere slang) it will eventually be assimilated as a part of "correct" language use, just like gay now meaning homosexual (and the original meaning sometimes even disappearing).
Usually it's only the most clever or fitting new words and expressions that live on, the rest (bad ones) will fade out eventually...

I'd never correct anyone on a date, that's just rude!!! Social incompetence is a 100 times worse than misusing a few words. If I got closer to the guy I'd probably correct him if he uses words that are totally wrong in a given context.

Yeah im pretty hopeless without spell check