Yet another college shooting

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 22, 2013 9:10 PM GMT
    I guess we're all a little sick of hearing about these, but:

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/22/shooting-reported-at-texas-college/comment-page-45/

    Arming students has always been *such* a great idea icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jan 22, 2013 9:14 PM GMT
    Apparently the shooter has an argument with one of the victims. We're back to the Wild West. "An armed society is a polite society."
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    Jan 22, 2013 9:18 PM GMT
    In the dystopic (but very real) near future, lockdowns in schools will be as common as recess.
    http://www.click2houston.com/news/2-people-shot-at-Lone-Star-College/-/1735978/18233132/-/jbx6ci/-/index.htmlAldine Independent School District officials said four nearby campuses, Dunn Elementary, Parker Intermediate, Nimitz 9th grade campus and Nimitz High, were placed on lockdown as a precaution. School district officials said there is no reason to believe a shooter is on any of those campuses, but the lockdown was issued for precautionary measures. Students were starting to be released around 3 p.m.
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    Jan 22, 2013 10:06 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidApparently the shooter has an argument with one of the victims. We're back to the Wild West. "An armed society is a polite society."


    I've never found texans very polite to be perfectly frank!

    And you're right---how can people learn in an environment where they cannot feel secure?
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    Jan 22, 2013 10:31 PM GMT
    That's why they came up with this: let's teach high school students to shoot! That combines the learning environment with "security"! icon_mad.gif

    http://www2.wspa.com/news/2013/jan/19/upstate-senator-backs-bill-offer-gun-class-high-sc-ar-5406574/

    That's a great idea for would-be gun owners (in fact should be mandatory that you passed before you can buy a gun), but not high school students.
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    Jan 22, 2013 10:52 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidThat's why they came up with this: let's teach high school students to shoot! That combines the learning environment with "security"! icon_mad.gif

    http://www2.wspa.com/news/2013/jan/19/upstate-senator-backs-bill-offer-gun-class-high-sc-ar-5406574/

    That's a great idea for would-be gun owners (in fact should be mandatory that you passed before you can buy a gun), but not high school students.


    It's not actually the worst idea---if the curriculum was well design to teach responsible ownership. It's far more scary that many people who own a gun are not actually competent to use it.

    I agree that a mandatory yearly training --- as is the case in Switzerland --- wouldn't be a bad idea either.
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    Jan 22, 2013 10:57 PM GMT
    TigerTim said
    q1w2e3 saidThat's why they came up with this: let's teach high school students to shoot! That combines the learning environment with "security"! icon_mad.gif

    http://www2.wspa.com/news/2013/jan/19/upstate-senator-backs-bill-offer-gun-class-high-sc-ar-5406574/

    That's a great idea for would-be gun owners (in fact should be mandatory that you passed before you can buy a gun), but not high school students.


    It's not actually the worst idea---if the curriculum was well design to teach responsible ownership. It's far more scary that many people who own a gun are not actually competent to use it.

    I agree that a mandatory yearly training --- as is the case in Switzerland --- wouldn't be a bad idea either.


    That's right, continuing gun-ownership education credits for renewing your license. (It's only fair, since every professional has to take CEs to maintain his or her license. I'm doing my 10 year internal medicine renewal process and it's going really slow...)

    But first we need a licensing process for guns in this country.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jan 23, 2013 12:15 AM GMT
    Impossible! I thought that with tighter gun laws only criminals would have guns?
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    Jan 23, 2013 2:37 AM GMT
    Don't expect anyone to believe that. More government power = more liberal bliss. And we know what equals bliss.
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    Jan 23, 2013 2:48 AM GMT
    I thought "college shootings" were more about cumshots than gunshots.
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    Jan 23, 2013 1:17 PM GMT
    Since the conservatives on here have no actual points to make---because these incidents are indefensible---let's just remind everyone that noone is proposing a ban on guns. Rather, the ideal gun laws would follow those in Australia in 1996 that have effectively eliminated gun massacres. They are:

    I) a ban on weapons capable of firing above a certain rate.
    2) enhanced scrutiny of gun purchasers, including elimination of loopholes
    3) mandatory training for gun owners (licensing like driving licensing). I'm not opposed, actually, to shooting classes in schools.
    4) a gun buy back program to compensate the owners of weapons made illegal under (1)

    These are balanced and evidence based measures that would greatly reduce gun massacres.

    I also think that all colleges should be able to ban guns on campus but that's another story.
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    Jan 23, 2013 2:24 PM GMT
    MOAR GUNS!

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/01/22/1483121/texas-republicans-call-for-more-guns-in-schools-following-shooting-at-lone-star-college/Texas is one of 49 states with a concealed carry law, permitting licensed individuals to carry firearms within the state, and lawmakers have introduced legislation that would allow college students and staff with concealed weapon permits to carry firearms on school grounds. Firearms are currently prohibited at Lone Star.

    Now, top Republican lawmakers — including Gov. Rick Perry and Rep. Tim Poe — are using Tuesday’s incident to call for more weapons on campus. KTRK’s Ted Oberg has the report:

    OBERG: Governor Perry said this afternoon his thoughts and prayers are with all the victims, but that anyone licensed and who has training on how to carry a weapon should be able to carry that weapon anywhere within the state and [that he would] indeed review the bill that’s been filed quickly. …. We talked to Ted Poe from the north Houston area, who said students today were defenseless on that campus.

    POE: It brings to focus the fact that many schools and universities and students have — are defenseless at the schools and places of higher education and this seems to show that.

    Five days ago, Texas State Sen. Brian Birdwell (R) and 13 other Republican authors introduced a measure that would prohibit higher ed institutions from imposing “bans or penalties on students who are licensed to carry a concealed handgun.” Schools could prohibit firearms at college sporting events, however. A similar bill failed to pass last year.

    Lone Star already employs armed police officers and unarmed security guards.


    Instead of 2 people shooting each other, they want a free-for-all shoot out. icon_mad.gif
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3279

    Jan 23, 2013 4:23 PM GMT
    TigerTim saidSince the conservatives on here have no actual points to make---because these incidents are indefensible---let's just remind everyone that noone is proposing a ban on guns. Rather, the ideal gun laws would follow those in Australia in 1996 that have effectively eliminated gun massacres. They are:

    I) a ban on weapons capable of firing above a certain rate.
    2) enhanced scrutiny of gun purchasers, including elimination of loopholes
    3) mandatory training for gun owners (licensing like driving licensing). I'm not opposed, actually, to shooting classes in schools.
    4) a gun buy back program to compensate the owners of weapons made illegal under (1)

    These are balanced and evidence based measures that would greatly reduce gun massacres.

    I also think that all colleges should be able to ban guns on campus but that's another story.


    I have no problem with what you propose, except #4, because for the most part clips are changeable.

    But it has to go through the regular process of federal law. US house/Senate -hearing-vote-conference committee- pass- Presidents sign.

    Part 2
    If one wants to amend the 2nd amendment it needs to go through regular order.
    Executive orders in the area of a constitutional right are very weak.
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    Jan 23, 2013 4:35 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    TigerTim saidSince the conservatives on here have no actual points to make...

    ... because you have them all blocked, therefore you don't see the other viewpoints posted.


    No, you really do have no actual point to make, as always.
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    Jan 23, 2013 6:01 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    southbeach1500 said
    TigerTim saidSince the conservatives on here have no actual points to make...

    ... because you have them all blocked, therefore you don't see the other viewpoints posted.


    No, you really do have no actual point to make, as always.


    And "viewpoints" is an excessively generous name for them!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2013 8:03 PM GMT
    TigerTim said
    meninlove said
    southbeach1500 said
    TigerTim saidSince the conservatives on here have no actual points to make...

    ... because you have them all blocked, therefore you don't see the other viewpoints posted.


    No, you really do have no actual point to make, as always.


    And "viewpoints" is an excessively generous name for them!


    I haven't really used the words "liberal" and "conservative" recently, pejoratively or not. They are not really useful and just serve to inflame. Policies either makes sense and work in real life, or not, and if not, one asks why. One doesn't put labels on them and cognitively close up.
    E.g. the president's inauguration speech was "liberal" but had points that most of the country agreed with. So does that mean most of the whole country just turned liberal?
    E.g. Republicans are all for big government regarding birth control, abortion and evolution. Where's the outrage in that?
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3279

    Jan 23, 2013 8:25 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    TigerTim said
    meninlove said
    southbeach1500 said
    TigerTim saidSince the conservatives on here have no actual points to make...

    ... because you have them all blocked, therefore you don't see the other viewpoints posted.


    No, you really do have no actual point to make, as always.


    And "viewpoints" is an excessively generous name for them!


    I haven't really used the words "liberal" and "conservative" recently, pejoratively or not. They are not really useful and just serve to inflame. Policies either makes sense and work in real life, or not, and if not, one asks why. One doesn't put labels on them and cognitively close up.
    E.g. the president's inauguration speech was "liberal" but had points that most of the country agreed with. So does that mean most of the whole country just turned liberal?
    E.g. Republicans are all for big government regarding birth control, abortion and evolution. Where's the outrage in that?



    If the constitution restrains the federal government in one area , and its left to the states that is not a big / small government philosophy.

    To look at it in that way is too simplistic. AFAIK birth control and abortion are medical topics all government would be wise to stay out of.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 23, 2013 8:57 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 said
    TigerTim said
    meninlove said
    southbeach1500 said
    TigerTim saidSince the conservatives on here have no actual points to make...

    ... because you have them all blocked, therefore you don't see the other viewpoints posted.


    No, you really do have no actual point to make, as always.


    And "viewpoints" is an excessively generous name for them!


    I haven't really used the words "liberal" and "conservative" recently, pejoratively or not. They are not really useful and just serve to inflame. Policies either makes sense and work in real life, or not, and if not, one asks why. One doesn't put labels on them and cognitively close up.
    E.g. the president's inauguration speech was "liberal" but had points that most of the country agreed with. So does that mean most of the whole country just turned liberal?
    E.g. Republicans are all for big government regarding birth control, abortion and evolution. Where's the outrage in that?


    You're quite right. There's nothing "conservative" about most of these people in actuality.

    I should avoid the term in the future.
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Jan 24, 2013 1:19 AM GMT
    Fighting over the 'womens' I do believe, in Houston.
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    Jan 24, 2013 1:23 AM GMT
    conservativejock saidFighting over the 'womens' I do believe, in Houston.


    Is that an excuse? Or what?
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jan 24, 2013 2:55 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    tazzari saidImpossible! I thought that with tighter gun laws only criminals would have guns?


    Typical liberal confusion.

    By definition, criminals are lawbreakers. Pass as many gun control laws as you want - criminals will choose not to obey those laws.


    Typical right-wing confusion. By definition, the shooters were not criminals until they shot - they were law-abiding citizens. Pass gun-control laws to make arms harder to obtain. Eventually even criminals will find them harder to acquire, and in the mean time, "law abiding" citizens will find it harder to break the law.

    Your argument seems to be that nothing can be done, so why try? Or do you have something positive to suggest?
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    Jan 25, 2013 4:57 PM GMT
    http://www.click2houston.com/news/HCSO-Man-22-charged-in-shooting-at-Lone-Star-College/-/1735978/18245484/-/7hghii/-/index.html

    Shooting seems to be drug/gang related between two felons. It doesn't fit the narrative of a crazed gunman.

    When drugs, guns, and minorities are involved, these events tend to get ignored as there's no political traction.