Being Gay=Voting for Obama??

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 29, 2008 12:58 AM GMT
    As somebody who is just coming to terms with being gay, I was wondering if I "owe" the gay world a vote for Obama. I find myself liberal on some things and conservative on others. I'm a staunch Hillary supporter...period. I may even write her name in on the ballot because I simply don't trust Obama. On the other hand, I think McCain is another war hero who doesn't give two shits in a barrel as to what happens domestically. What do you guys think? I know Obama is for gay rights, but with the mortgage crisis, I highly doubt it is at the top of the list. I came across this video (bottom) about the housing crisis. I think it's interesting. I'm still deciding on who to vote for. This video, if true (which anything can be cut and pasted), then I certainly don't want Obama.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o

    PS- not trying to start a war here, just asking. (Good debate topic)
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    Sep 29, 2008 1:17 AM GMT
    Bump...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 29, 2008 1:30 AM GMT
    I think it's an interesting video and it makes some good points. Mainly about how this crisis we're in cannot be blamed all on one party (gasp!). But like you said, "if true".

    One of the things I didn't like about it is how fast it goes from slide to slide. I would need to go back and check how reliable the sources are since there's not a lot of emphasis on that.

    I also checked out the Obama teaching kindergarteners about sex video, and I found it a little manipulative. Take for example the quote in 1:46, which talks about "public elementary, junior high, and senior high school" and not stating that abstinence is the norm. Then at 1:58 the video tries to say this will apply to kindergerteners. The quote did not mention kindergarten.

    So like I said. The original video makes good points, but based on his other video some of it could be skewered. I'm interested in what other people have to say about it.
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    Sep 29, 2008 4:59 AM GMT
    Hey bud, I think you ask a really great question. I would have to say, vote your conscience. No one canidate is going to offer everything you want (I am also a huge Hilary fan) so you look at the overall picture and go with your gut. One piece of advice, if you do vote McCain keep it to yourself in the gay bars. ; - )

    -B
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    Sep 29, 2008 5:00 AM GMT
    Hey bud, I think you ask a really great question. I would have to say, vote your conscience. No one canidate is going to offer everything you want (I am also a huge Hilary fan) so you look at the overall picture and go with your gut. One piece of advice, if you do vote McCain keep it to yourself in the gay bars. ; - )

    -B
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Sep 29, 2008 5:05 AM GMT
    Just my opinion, but I think when it comes to your personal vote based on your personal value system, priorities, and what issues weigh most heavily on your own mind and in your own life, vote your gut and your conscience. You don't owe the gay world, or any other world, anything. Your vote is YOUR vote...cast it how ever you feel you want to.
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    Sep 29, 2008 5:07 AM GMT
    I liked the bus analogy someone used on here. Id rather vote for Obama and be in the back of the bus in terms of gay rights vs vote for McCain and be thrown under the bus (WAY anti gay rights)....hope that helps.

    I live in IL which is locked win for Obama I may write in Hillary just as a big middle finger to the DNC for the way the primary ended...now MI and FL get full votes but not in June, wtf?icon_twisted.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Sep 29, 2008 5:10 AM GMT
    bennyboy said One piece of advice, if you do vote McCain keep it to yourself in the gay bars. ; - )

    -B


    Just a note, I was in West Hollywood, CA about a month ago, and was out and about over the course of a weekend at all sorts of local hot spots, and I can tell you there are far more McCain supporters in the gay community than you might think. Even I was surprised. Many are not vocal about it because they just don't want to deal with confrontational democrats who, admittedly, out number them by far.
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    Sep 29, 2008 5:10 AM GMT
    gayblaketx saidAs somebody who is just coming to terms with being gay, I was wondering if I "owe" the gay world a vote for Obama. I find myself liberal on some things and conservative on others. I'm a staunch Hillary supporter...period. I may even write her name in on the ballot because I simply don't trust Obama. On the other hand, I think McCain is another war hero who doesn't give two shits in a barrel as to what happens domestically. What do you guys think? I know Obama is for gay rights, but with the mortgage crisis, I highly doubt it is at the top of the list. I came across this video (bottom) about the housing crisis. I think it's interesting. I'm still deciding on who to vote for. This video, if true (which anything can be cut and pasted), then I certainly don't want Obama.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o

    PS- not trying to start a war here, just asking. (Good debate topic)


    You vote is your vote. Pick McCain if you feel he's the guy for the job.

    But writing Hillary on the ballot??? Get real! icon_lol.gif
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    Sep 29, 2008 5:12 AM GMT
    Chuy2010 saidI liked the bus analogy someone used on here. Id rather vote for Obama and be in the back of the bus in terms of gay rights vs vote for McCain and be thrown under the bus (WAY anti gay rights)....hope that helps.

    I live in IL which is locked win for Obama I may write in Hillary just as a big middle finger to the DNC for the way the primary ended...now MI and FL get full votes but not in June, wtf?icon_twisted.gif


    Amen brother...a middle finger to the DNC AND to Donna Brazile
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    Sep 29, 2008 5:14 AM GMT
    I am voting for neither. I will just vote for local candidates, but I don't like either of them. I don't expect a good result from either of them and they will compound current problems.
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    Sep 29, 2008 5:21 AM GMT
    You should vote for who you want as you are a 22 year old adult.

    But the video you have linked is just another smear, there are hundreds of them I am sure. But I wouldn't trust unknown youtube videos for my voting information. You would be better off looking at the major media sources that present multiple viewpoints.

    If you want to get information about the candidates, go to their respective websites and read articles from the major newspapers and networks. Also use fact checking sites like

    http://www.factcheck.org/
    http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

    Most of the Anti-Obama stuff is debunked at these sites in relation to the housing stuff.
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    Sep 29, 2008 6:04 AM GMT

    Here's my thought process:

    In terms of foreign policy, I'm a Republican.

    In terms of economic policy, I'm kind of like McCain... don't know a lot about it.

    In terms of social policy, I'm a Democrat.

    So what to do? Why Isn't Lieberman running or Guliani the candidate?
    Why couldn't Scoop Jackson or Barry Goldwater live forever?

    On foreign policy, the president leads but there's a lot more going on. On one level it may seem naive, but the differences between the candidates aren't really that great. It's easy for the opposition to say things, but once they're in the drivers seat they find out it's easier to be critical than correct. (But someone please tell Obama to dump Zbig.) It's only a 4-year term (and if things are that bad, as they were with Carter/Zbig, then there won't be a 2nd term.)

    If McCain was running as he did 8 years ago, I wouldn't view him very negatively. But as the Daily Show pointed out, he's now a reformed maverick, embracing the religious right instead of us. There will be a huge difference in the status of gay rights between a President Obama and a President John - beholden to the religious right - McCain. Especially when it comes to Supreme Court appointments (and there are a few on deck). Yes, there have been some surprise nominations in the past, but betting on this to happen again is naive, especially when McCain is in political debt to the right wing of his party and this is where they will demand repayment. Supreme Court justices serve for a lot longer than the president, so these appointments will have an impact not just for 4-8 years, but for a generation or so.

    That makes my decision easy.
    Your mileage may vary.

    Let me mention one more thing... in case you are bent on reforming the Republican party or want to see it embracing the battle for equal rights for us. As long as you are willing to sit at the back of the bus and make other issues more important, any party will be happy to ignore you while sucking your vote out of you. Might as well buckle up in that back seat because it's going to be a long ride to nowhere.

    I'm saying this as someone who has previously voted for Republican candidates and who (technically) is a registered Republican. If Republicans want my vote (again), they're going to have to earn it.
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    Sep 29, 2008 6:14 AM GMT
    Oh, also try

    http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm

    it gives voting records, stances, and what they have said on their platforms
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    Sep 29, 2008 6:18 AM GMT
    Checking your sources is a fine idea. For example, I just saw a letter from Dr. Henry Kissinger and in it he states that McCain was correct in quoting him - and poor Obama was - shall we say "mistaken" the other night on the debate. Dr. Kissinger was not amused that Obama would pull a stunt like this using his name to try to bolster his factoids.

    So - yes, check your sources while making up your minds - and check out other sources besides CNN.
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    Sep 29, 2008 6:32 AM GMT
    May be it's because you are young and good looking so many democrats have not bashed you. But you did point out you love ol Chilery.

    But what impress me the most was: Democrats have said go with your gut.

    I sit on the fence politically, and never vote for the one side blindly I give my vote to what I feel will be best for Oz in the long run, and not my own selfish want first.

    I have had moments in my life it has annoyed me, new comers, and new Australian, and Australian get right in Oz I don't, a True Blue Aussie. But it does not dominate my life. I am not a second class citizen, not do I live like one, nor born one. I was born an Aristocrat, and sexuality has never really been an Issue in the upper classes, only the Middle and lower classes. Well Thats the way I see, and history has too.

    It's your vote. Go with your guts, and you have every right to vote how you want and be safe to do so. If you are not, then you don't live in a democracy. It's a dictatorship.
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    Sep 29, 2008 7:25 AM GMT
    Pattison saidMay be it's because you are young and good looking so many democrats have not bashed you. But you did point out you love ol Chilery.

    But what impress me the most was: Democrats have said go with your gut.

    I sit on the fence politically, and never vote for the one side blindly I give my vote to what I feel will be best for Oz in the long run, and not my own selfish want first.

    I have had moments in my life it has annoyed me, new comers, and new Australian, and Australian get right in Oz I don't, a True Blue Aussie. But it does not dominate my life. I am not a second class citizen, not do I live like one, nor born one. I was born an Aristocrat, and sexuality has never really been an Issue in the upper classes, only the Middle and lower classes. Well Thats the way I see, and history has too.

    It's your vote. Go with your guts, and you have every right to vote how you want and be safe to do so. If you are not, then you don't live in a democracy. It's a dictatorship.


    Here you go again with another burst of racist mis-information and dog-whistling. Can you come up with 3 rights that 'new-comers' or 'new Australians' get that you don't have access to? Go on.



  • MarvelClimber

    Posts: 511

    Sep 29, 2008 7:27 AM GMT
    Blake,
    A couple of things to keep in mind:

    You aren't voting for one person. You're voting for a party. That's the way our democracy is set up. It calls for the citizen to support the general sociopolitical values of that party. An individual will have specific values that may not align with that of the party. However, those differences aren't relevant in choosing the party's candidate because you aren't voting for someone based on their similarity to you. You're voting for the candidate who represents the party that is in your best interest.

    That being said, think about the issues that matter most to you, and how each party aligns with those issues. It is doubtful that any candidate will ever possess all of the qualities an individual desires. It's also impossible to truly trust any politician from the standpoint of a citizen outside of political circles.

    Other things to look at are the laws each party has tried to pass. Look at how government money (your tax dollars) are allocated. Take a look at the past to get a feel for the future.

    It's probably harder for you to know what the last 8 years have been like since you were still a kid during the current regime. Even 4 years ago you might have been more dependent on your parents. Right now you're at the end of a regime that has been downhill for a long time. You'll need to do a bit of research at the sites ActiveAndFit suggested to gain some perspective. YouTube videos aren't reliable. Bash tactics are meant to sensationalize divisive issues.

    You're coming into political awareness at the same time you're coming into personal awareness, and some things are going to conflict. Think about where your life is heading socially and economically. Which party will support your socioeconomic lifestyle years down the road? That's the party that you need to put in place now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 29, 2008 7:51 AM GMT
    Whoever you vote for, don't write Hillary on the ballot. I work for the Australian Electoral Commission, and while I'm not saying that our laws are the same, but a name written on an Australian ballot paper makes that paper informal.

    Don't take a risk with your vote. Messages on ballot papers aren't read by the candidates. Just make your vote count.
  • metta

    Posts: 39165

    Sep 29, 2008 8:03 AM GMT
    In regards to Hillary, right now, I'm hoping that the bailout plan moves more towards Hillary's plan than the current $700 billion plan. I have already written my congress people (boxer & feinstein) in regards to this. http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-clinton-proposes-new-mortgage-bailout-plans/

    For President, I don't see what is difficult about it when looking at who McCain chose to be President if he dies, when looking at what type of person he wants on the Supreme Court, when looking at what a dirty and dishonest campaign he is running, etc.

    McCain






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    Sep 29, 2008 9:19 AM GMT
    ChrisInLDN said
    Pattison saidMay be it's because you are young and good looking so many democrats have not bashed you. But you did point out you love ol Chilery.

    But what impress me the most was: Democrats have said go with your gut.

    I sit on the fence politically, and never vote for the one side blindly I give my vote to what I feel will be best for Oz in the long run, and not my own selfish want first.

    I have had moments in my life it has annoyed me, new comers, and new Australian, and Australian get right in Oz I don't, a True Blue Aussie. But it does not dominate my life. I am not a second class citizen, not do I live like one, nor born one. I was born an Aristocrat, and sexuality has never really been an Issue in the upper classes, only the Middle and lower classes. Well Thats the way I see, and history has too.

    It's your vote. Go with your guts, and you have every right to vote how you want and be safe to do so. If you are not, then you don't live in a democracy. It's a dictatorship.


    Here you go again with another burst of racist mis-information and dog-whistling. Can you come up with 3 rights that 'new-comers' or 'new Australians' get that you don't have access to? Go on.



    Can't see what was racist. You seem to think we are one. That deprives the aboriginals of their heritage, I've never done that! As you seem to have the right to deprive me of mine. You left Oz! You are now an ex pa "Australian", and lost your place! Yet we still give you a vote. Can you give One 3 reasons why One should!

    In fact I'm well informed about my place in Oz, and content with it too. Remember you left. My home is not your home, and I would never abandon my home. Nor is my heritage to Oz yours either, we are not the same, nor one!

    Oh there's a thread: why do so many get.....Defensive and angry. You need to comment on it!

    I myself just about never get angry! Nor am I being defensive with you. I'm just not being obliging to your demands, and you are the one who says you are laid back!icon_lol.gif Oh must be my fault you are not!

    Name-calling becomes a substitute for meaningful debate of issues and it works quit well in the political arena. Thats is unfortunate, because the name-calling, while it may have a chilling effect on the genuine discussion of issues does nothing to satisfy the people who share the views of those who are the targets of those insults.

    You call One a racist, because I refuse to see things your way. By doing so. I point blank refuse too succumb to your demands.

    Don't know what your problem is, but it's hard to pronounce.
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    Sep 29, 2008 9:24 AM GMT
    Can anyone name 3 things that str8's get that you don't.

    I'm 100% sure they would be 3 things that new Australians, and Australians get down here in Oz, that I don't A White Indigenous Aussie; just because I was born a homosexual. Yet there are more important things to worrie about!
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Sep 29, 2008 9:51 AM GMT
    Ecuse me ... But WTF???

    Fannie and Freddie were only a small part of this crisis
    This was a firesale of bad mortgages
    that was in the ENTIRE banking industry
    not only Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

    ...and not only were these bad mortgages MADE
    which was bad enough
    But that they were bundled and SOLD on the bond market back and forth
    and THIS my friends was the beginning of the end

    ... and how may you ask was this accomplished ?

    by a little deregulatory bill called the Commodity Futures Regulation Act
    allowing these "Swaps" for the first time and over turning financial and banking firewalls for the first time

    http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

    And who was at the bottom of this smarrt move?

    Ask Grampy ... it's one of his top economic advisers

    This video is a propaganda ploy guys
    Did Fannie and Freddie get caught up in this republican mindset-deregulatory mess???
    sure they did .. but were they the cause? Absolutely not
    and if you continue to think so and not see the forest through the trees
    This is going to continue to happen Over and Over again
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    Sep 29, 2008 10:01 AM GMT
    Pattison said
    ChrisInLDN said
    Pattison saidMay be it's because you are young and good looking so many democrats have not bashed you. But you did point out you love ol Chilery.

    But what impress me the most was: Democrats have said go with your gut.

    I sit on the fence politically, and never vote for the one side blindly I give my vote to what I feel will be best for Oz in the long run, and not my own selfish want first.

    I have had moments in my life it has annoyed me, new comers, and new Australian, and Australian get right in Oz I don't, a True Blue Aussie. But it does not dominate my life. I am not a second class citizen, not do I live like one, nor born one. I was born an Aristocrat, and sexuality has never really been an Issue in the upper classes, only the Middle and lower classes. Well Thats the way I see, and history has too.

    It's your vote. Go with your guts, and you have every right to vote how you want and be safe to do so. If you are not, then you don't live in a democracy. It's a dictatorship.


    Here you go again with another burst of racist mis-information and dog-whistling. Can you come up with 3 rights that 'new-comers' or 'new Australians' get that you don't have access to? Go on.



    Can't see what was racist. You seem to think we are one. That deprives the aboriginals of their heritage, I've never done that! As you seem to have the right to deprive me of mine. You left Oz! You are now an ex pa "Australian", and lost your place! Yet we still give you a vote. Can you give One 3 reasons why One should!

    In fact I'm well informed about my place in Oz, and content with it too. Remember you left. My home is not your home, and I would never abandon my home. Nor is my heritage to Oz yours either, we are not the same, nor one!

    Oh there's a thread: why do so many get.....Defensive and angry. You need to comment on it!

    I myself just about never get angry! Nor am I being defensive with you. I'm just not being obliging to your demands, and you are the one who says you are laid back!icon_lol.gif Oh must be my fault you are not!

    Name-calling becomes a substitute for meaningful debate of issues and it works quit well in the political arena. Thats is unfortunate, because the name-calling, while it may have a chilling effect on the genuine discussion of issues does nothing to satisfy the people who share the views of those who are the targets of those insults.

    You call One a racist, because I refuse to see things your way. By doing so. I point blank refuse too succumb to your demands.

    Don't know what your problem is, but it's hard to pronounce.


    My post wasn't angry - just asking you to justify your position with facts - whcih you were unable to do.

    I still pay taxes in Australia, still own property there, and still operate a company there that's my 3 reasons icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 29, 2008 10:18 AM GMT
    I am conservative on National Security and liberal on foreign policy... I don't know what to think of the Iraq war, but I do think we should have gone in with the consent of more of our allies. I think we should stick through in the Middle East though until it is soewhat stable before we leave.

    On fiscal issues... I could care less. Money has never been important to me, and i don't need a lot to be happy. For the most part, I hate big business-- greed has destro a lot of lives. Paying taxes does not bother me all that much... the country needs our money to thrive- what bothers me is spending billions and billions of dollars of blowing up two countries and then piecing them back together. Responsible spending is what I care about. Even though I don't know anything about fiscal issues I probably think like a socialist when it comes to finances and the economy.

    On social, environmental, educational, scientific, and domestic issues i am very liberal... except for some issues like abortion, embyronic stem cell research, and affirmative action-- I am a centrist.

    However, each issue has "weight" added to it. What issue(s) is(are) more important for the "good" of the country? Will voting for someone weak on National Security but liberal on social issues be good for the entire country?

    When I vote... I vote for which canidate is (what I believe to be) the best choice for the country... at that present time. Which is why I am an independent.

    It is hard though because I have to sometimes sacifice my own morals and values in order to vote for the country's best canidate.

    In 2004, I voted for Bush... I do not like that I voted for him and can't stand the man...but I didn't think Kerry would have been a good president at that present time (which is not so say that he would never be a good president). I just thought Bush was a better choice. Mind you... if I knew about the things I know of now... I probably would have voted for Kerry or not voted at all.

    One group of people I would like to understand better are Gay Republicans. How can one support a party in which a large majoriety of its members believes one is immoral and/or going to Hell? How can one support a party which does not want to give one any rights? Register as a liberatarian or an independent... and vote for republicans... but why join the republican party and support the whole party. I have voted for republican canidates, yes, but i would never join the party since I disagree with half of their party platform.... I wouldn't be able to morally.

    -Ugly past of Racial Discrimination
    -Favors big buisness and money
    -Poor/lack-of responsable environmental policies
    -Large majority favors the marriage of church and state
    -Teacher led prayers in schools
    -10 commendments in public places
    -Does not recognize diversity... religion especially
    -anit-gay rights
    -anti-women's rights in the past
    -teach creationism as an equal to evolution in schools
    -lack scientific knowledge and support (on the whole)
    -absitence only education omitting GLBT sex-ed & information in schools
    -against affrimative action (for the wrong reasons)
    -Against a womean right to choose as a whole


    So, gay Republicans... I have voted the same way you have before yet call myself an independent.... why don't you do the same? How can you be part of a mostly bigoted party? (Democrats can be bigoted too yes, but there are more intolerant republicans than intolerant democrats.)

    I don't men to start a fight, but I am quite curious.



    PS: sorry for typos and grammar errors... it's early here :O)