The truth about post-workout shakes

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 30, 2013 2:50 PM GMT
    Thought this was pretty interesting -

    http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/post-workout-shakes

    protein.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 30, 2013 4:14 PM GMT
    Cool. Thanks for sharing
  • Montague

    Posts: 5205

    Jan 30, 2013 4:16 PM GMT
    True, I don't know who made up that whole 30min window deal.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Jan 30, 2013 4:43 PM GMT
    Anyone know about timing of the introduction of Testosterone in relation to working out? At my age it's pretty easy to get a doctor's prescription for T and I was thinking of using it to boost my gains and energy. Should it be taken before or after?
  • stratavos

    Posts: 1831

    Jan 30, 2013 4:43 PM GMT
    thank you icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 30, 2013 6:09 PM GMT
    Good because I am never prepared with my protein... I always end up leaving it at home...

    Thanks for the info!
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    Jan 30, 2013 6:42 PM GMT
    All the study says is how long you can consume protein to promote muscle growth, but it doesn't address the other half of the equation: cutting catabolic muscle loss. I'm still going to be eating right after working out, where stimulating insulin and reducing cortisol is most important.
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    Jan 30, 2013 6:45 PM GMT
    Montague saidTrue, I don't know who made up that whole 30min window deal.


    Now I feel better about tanning right after working out.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Jan 30, 2013 7:00 PM GMT
    SkittleGangsta saidAll the study says is how long you can consume protein to promote muscle growth, but it doesn't address the other half of the equation: cutting catabolic muscle loss. I'm still going to be eating right after working out, where stimulating insulin and reducing cortisol is most important.


    Agreed. Ending catabolism and increasing uptake for carbs and other nutrients still peaks in that 60 minute window.
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    Jan 30, 2013 7:04 PM GMT
    I also question how knowledgeable the author is when in her very first sentence she used the word tenants when she means tenets.

    Unless she means that I need to drink protein shakes if I want to live somewhere that's bigger and stronger?
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jan 30, 2013 8:22 PM GMT
    I'm far from an expert on this subject but when I started working out a little over two years ago (for the first time ever in my life) I spent a lot of time researching not only weight training form and technique but questions related to nutrition. Being over 60 and wanting to build muscle while losing fat, I knew I couldn't' go into this blindly and stupidly.

    I was surprised to discover how little real science there is behind many of the "myths" that get promoted by the "fitness industry." Not saying there is no truth to them, only that they are often exaggerated and based on statistical samplings. One study indicates something and that "something" gets picked up by someone trying to sell the "something" and it gets broadcast by fitness magazines, blogs or what have you and becomes a commonly held belief, even if it isn't completely true or there may be other studies that show something different. For novices like myself, this can be very confusing.

    I made up my mind to try different things, keep very careful notes and see what worked best for *me*. Men in my age group are often (not always) outside the demographics of those in these studies. True, in many respects our bodies are adaptive machines that behave similarly but differences in age, genetics, levels of health and a lot of other things also come into play.

    For myself I've found hitting the "60 minute window" is important for recovery. When I go to work out (which I do a lot for an old man -- four days a week now plus two aerobics sessions a week and a very brisk walk of 2.5 to 5 miles a day, every day), I prepare a banana "pudding": One very ripe banana smushed up in a bowl along with two scoops of unflavored whey protein isolate (I buy it in bulk), one tablespoon of BCAAs and a tablespoon of either peanut butter or raw almond butter. About 15 minutes before I get to the gym (walking -- this is my initial warm-up) I stop and eat about a third of the pudding and down a strong cup of coffee. By the time I'm changed and in the weight room, I'm practically bouncing off the wall.

    I have my routines (something I've developed for myself through trial and error, focused more on the upper body than my legs which are in great shape) written down. (I have several routines, actually, that I circulate through 2 to 3 month periods with periods of no weight lifting at all for full recovery.) I know exactly what I'm going to do and for an old guy it is a mother. I try to get it all done within an hour to hour and a half max. After that I do a 15 minute "finisher" using an aerobic step alternating a few minutes of big moves with bursts of very rapid double-timing step moves that spike my heart rate and exhaust my legs. When I hit that "fatigue" level, I back off, pace a bit to catch my breath, then go back to the big moves and repeat till the 15 minutes is up.

    Immediately after that I go to my locker and consume the remaining protein pudding. I shower and dress then down 1.5 scoops of ProgenX Recovery in water. An hour or so later I'll have a salad with meat or iniri (raw fish with rice) but then don't eat again until early evening. Sometimes, never on non-workout days but sometimes when I feel my protein intake may not be sufficient, I have a scoop of casein protein before bed.

    This is working for me. There are other things I do as well but that's the basic outline and it is working for me. I'm seeing slow but steady strength and mass gains and fat loss. I still can't "see" my abs yet but I can feel them. My whole upper torso has thinned down a lot except for the subcutaneous and visceral fat in the abdominal area. This may take another year but I do understand *that* is more a question of diet than exercise. It's a balancing act between eating enough (especially carbs and proteins) to fuel muscle growth while simultaneously tapping into fat reserves. On non-workout (but nevertheless active) days I sometimes only eat one meal a day (for example). I do not find this a problem.

    So far as I understand it, most muscle *growth* occurs at night. It is true the body cannot *store* protein (other than as fat, so it doesn't help to eat *too* much), however, the gut *contains* it if it is accumulated throughout the day.

    The real trick for an old guy like me (so far as I can tell) is to balance the extreme (for my age) weight training I do with sufficient *recovery time*. I push hard (experience 'good' muscle soreness) and the week before I take two to four weeks off from lifting I do *double workouts* (twice a day!) so I'm in a state of total exhaustion. I eat like a horse for three to four days after that and then back way off the eating for the remainder of the recovery period.

    Like I say, it is working for me. At my age I don't expect to see rapid changes however, I do look like someone who has been working out for two years. My upper body is shaping up and people are noticing I'm starting to look "muscly". I'm looking at this as a five year gain project to maintenance. Not looking to win any competitions or become a hulk but by age 70 I hope to be in the best shape of my life icon_smile.gif

    As a side note to all this, one of my locker neighbors is 80 years old. He was a gymnast in his youth and is still trim with a damn good upper body physique for his age. (I *wish* I had lats like his!) In passing he's told me that he is experiencing muscle wasting (and strength loss) even though he maintains a very active lifestyle (weight lifting, swimming, racquetball, etc.) so I questioned a) his protein intake and b) his recovery time. The point being that at that age an "active lifestyle" may become more catabolic than anabolic unless one monitors nutrition and recovery very carefully.

    The above is too long, I know, but this is an "off day" so have plenty of time to write. haha. But top-(limited)-range bench pressed 300# yesterday icon_razz.gif Half ranged 240# before my multiple sets of full ranges at 120#. That's an enormous gain from what I could do just one years ago.

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    Jan 30, 2013 9:24 PM GMT
    Medjai said
    SkittleGangsta saidAll the study says is how long you can consume protein to promote muscle growth, but it doesn't address the other half of the equation: cutting catabolic muscle loss. I'm still going to be eating right after working out, where stimulating insulin and reducing cortisol is most important.


    Agreed. Ending catabolism and increasing uptake for carbs and other nutrients still peaks in that 60 minute window.


    Agreed +1 I also have to echo what MikeW said above. icon_biggrin.gif
  • GWriter

    Posts: 1446

    Jan 31, 2013 12:06 AM GMT
    On top of everything that's been said already, the article relies entirely on the authority of Alan Aragon, who is smart but a little quirky and can be defiantly contrarian (he loves to defend sugar!) I used to subscribe to his research review, but cancelled when his personal agenda and general prickliness became overbearing.
    So I would take this simplified version of his personal recommendations with a grain of salt. I still take full advantage of the post-workout non-insulin-mediated glucose uptake window. Whoops... there is no "window" any more? Doorway? Portal? Anyway... eat pretty soon after your workout. It is still the best choice.
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    Jan 31, 2013 12:24 AM GMT
    cndplayer saidGood because I am never prepared with my protein... I always end up leaving it at home...

    Thanks for the info!


    Or spilling it on the floor lol
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    Jan 31, 2013 12:33 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidI have to get some glucose after I train intensely and heavily otherwise I can become severely hypoglycemic in two hours (post-workout). Not fun.


    +1 I always eat an apple or some fruit. I never use protein powder, but always make sure I eat real protein within the first hour.
  • Whipmagic

    Posts: 1481

    Jan 31, 2013 12:49 AM GMT
    For proteins, my post workout stack is whey protein shake with added creatine and glutamine. That seems to make for a good recovery, at least for me. I also like some sugar at that point, usually fruit, a banana or so. That gets me through until dinner. I don't have any good justification for that regimen, it just seems to work ok for me.
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    Jan 31, 2013 12:59 AM GMT
    For anyone who's been working out for a few years, this is a no-brainer.

    The after-workout scam needs to come to a halt.
  • Whipmagic

    Posts: 1481

    Jan 31, 2013 1:13 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidFor anyone who's been working out for a few years, this is a no-brainer.

    The after-workout scam needs to come to a halt.


    There are two aspects to it. The time window and the nutrients. As to the time window, I always thought the thirty minutes is a little too strict. But, as pinted out above, you need to look at both muscle buildng and potential muscle cannibalization, and while I don't have any scientific evidence just by listening to my body I get a sense that I need something roughly within an hour to have a good recovery which I presume also translates into muscle generation, or at least lack of cannibalization.

    As to what to eat, good protein seems like the no-brainer here, other more specific recovery supplements like glutamine may or may not help you, but that depends entirely on how your personal metabolism is wired. Some faast carbs righht after a workout can be beneficial to trigger an insulin spike to help with recovery and muscle generation, but you don't want to overdo it or it will be stored as fat.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 31, 2013 2:44 AM GMT
    Your body is not going to have a catabolic feast on your muscles in 30 minutes post workout, but the fact of the matter is this: eating, anytime, increases anabolism. After I work out, I've depleted glycogen stores, dehydrated myself and kicked up cortisol levels as a result of the stress I've put my body through. I would rather reverse those things sooner rather than later. I agree the 30 minute window is too strict, but I'm of the opinion that there's no reason not to give your body what it needs as soon as you can. If your goal is to maintain and grow muscle wouldn't you rather spend less time in a suboptimal state for growth?