Dog housebreaking problems

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 01, 2013 1:31 PM GMT
    We got a beautiful little miniature pinscher from the shelter about three months ago. He was a completely uncivilized little beast when we first got him, but he's been through basic training now so knows (and sometimes responds to) the basic commands, and he can do loose leash walking. He's also adorable and seriously loving.

    The problem is, we thought we had him housebroken, but it has become clear we haven't. He gets plenty of walks. He's crate trained fine. When he asks to go out, we take him. But he's taken to peeing inside again.

    We spent weeks and weeks with him leashed at our sides even inside because he couldn't be trusted. Now it seems like we're right back where we started.

    We can't live like this. If we don't come up with a solution, we won't take him back to the shelter, but I am starting to look at mini pin rescue organizations.

    We're pretty heartbroken. If anyone has any advice to share, I'd really appreciate it. BTW, this is our first dog, after decades of having only cats.
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    Feb 01, 2013 3:50 PM GMT
    No expert in this, but perhaps he's marking territory? Perhaps a cat or dog lived in your home before and left traces?
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    Feb 01, 2013 3:54 PM GMT
    eagermuscle saidNo expert in this, but perhaps he's marking territory? Perhaps a cat or dog lived in your home before and left traces?


    Probably not. The main house is newly built by us. There are cats but they don't mark.

    At the farm, who knows, but his accidents are generally near the door, so we think he knows what is supposed to happen but doesn't quite care enough to be let out.

    It's extremely frustrating. The bf wants to try puppy pads, but I am concerned that will just teach him that urinating inside the house is ok.

    icon_cry.gificon_cry.gificon_cry.gificon_cry.gificon_cry.gif
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    Feb 01, 2013 3:59 PM GMT
    My dog, Brooke, was a bitch to house train. She was completey trained in every way but would not be housebroken. I finally started rubbing her nose in her pee and send her outside and if I saw her squat I would pick her up and put her outside...

    It took me 6 months to get her fully housebroken....


    Funny story, I had someone over my house looking at my kitchen and she was pissed she couldn't go in (I have an electric fence in my kitchen) so she barks at me and pees on my white carpet...and then laid down in her bed....BITCH icon_mad.gif
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:02 PM GMT
    There are numerous books about this so it is hard to make a specific suggestion.

    The other thing, you might make contact with a breed specific rescue organization - NOT encouraging you to give up on him, but these groups are often staffed by folks very knowledgable in the breed and might give you some good advice. Some Doberman rescue organizations also handle miniature pinschers, so that could be a good resource.

    Stay with him and good luck!
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:02 PM GMT
    I agree with the "no puppy pads" decision...

    Small toy dogs are notoriously tough to housetrain... Whether it's just their smaller bladders or innate stubbornness, who knows...

    You can try controlling access to water a bit...
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:03 PM GMT
    don't take the easy way out, you rescued the little dog, and giving a home. don't take the easy way out and try your best.
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:06 PM GMT
    Thanks. I've emailed the local reps from the national min pin rescue site. I've also read books, websites, etc. Seems like the consensus is, (1) take him to the vet to get checked out (will do, but doubtful it is a medical problem), and (2) start over with restricting his freedom (I don't know how long we can do that).

    Rad, I have seen that some dogs take a really long time to get housetrained. Sorry about your white carpet. The biggest problem we have is that the little bugger he ruined a $3000 pair of silk drapes. Seriously.

    I guess it's possible we just weren't meant to have a dog, but I am just very very sad today, and don't know what will happen.
  • Fable

    Posts: 3866

    Feb 01, 2013 4:06 PM GMT
    next time you catch him in the act unzip and piss on him.


    rinse and repeat til he learns his lesson.
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:07 PM GMT
    archon saiddon't take the easy way out, you rescued the little dog, and giving a home. don't take the easy way out and try your best.


    Believe me, there is no easy way out.
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:26 PM GMT
    One other option is getting a dog behaviorist (fancy name for trainer) to come to your place and work with you and your pal. I knew a single mother with a daughter and a large doberman rescue who decided he was number 2 behind the mother but ahead of the daughter. It was a difficult situation, but eventually worked out fine. I did a google search of dog behaviorist and your city, state. Several links, including this one:

    http://caninedimensions.com/PublicPages/Home.aspx?gclid=CP-Ar77BlbUCFQhyQgod2EEAEA
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:29 PM GMT
    All you can do is watch him whenever he is in the house and as soon as he looks like he's going to pee, you grab him and hustle him outside.

    Every time he does pee outdoors you praise him, EXCESSIVELY, make a huge fuss of how impressed you are he peed outside. Give him treats and say "Good boy!"

    DO NOT RUB HIS FACE IN IT

    If you see him mid-pee yell "NO!" loudly and again scoop him up and get him outside, even if he's already finished peeing.

    Also, get the liquid that removes all traces of pee from the surface it's been on - you might wipe it up but dog wee can leave traces that are undetectable to us but they can still pick up on and it will encourage him to keep going in the same place.

    You might have to be very careful and consistent with this for a while but it will work eventually, hopefully before your patience runs out! I used all these techniques with my labrador puppy and he picked up toilet training really well (got him at 8 weeks, he was pretty much trained by about 4 months).
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:34 PM GMT
    ^
    Exactly
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:39 PM GMT
    Pure saidAll you can do is watch him whenever he is in the house and as soon as he looks like he's going to pee, you grab him and hustle him outside.

    Every time he does pee outdoors you praise him, EXCESSIVELY, make a huge fuss of how impressed you are he peed outside. Give him treats and say "Good boy!"

    DO NOT RUB HIS FACE IN IT

    If you see him mid-pee yell "NO!" loudly and again scoop him up and get him outside, even if he's already finished peeing.

    Also, get the liquid that removes all traces of pee from the surface it's been on - you might wipe it up but dog wee can leave traces that are undetectable to us but they can still pick up on and it will encourage him to keep going in the same place.

    You might have to be very careful and consistent with this for a while but it will work eventually, hopefully before your patience runs out! I used all these techniques with my labrador puppy and he picked up toilet training really well (got him at 8 weeks, he was pretty much trained by about 4 months).


    As an ex dog-obedience instructor - ^^^ this is the best advice here.

    When some dogs are kept in small crates, they lose their natural distaste for the smell of their own urine, and will not have the same instincts to urinate well away from their bed / pack.

    You should restrict his access - get a puppy pen for him, and keep some newspapers in one part of it, work your way up to house-training again..

    Also consider the way you're cleaning up the urine - it could be that you're attracting the dog back to the same location with a scent from one of the products you use to clean up.

    Blot up the urine and use a mild soap and water to remove the proteins, then some dilute white vinegar in water to remove the odour.

    Baking soda onto the dry carpets / area and then vacum up about an hour later may also help.

    TEST both of these methods on small areas, as some carpets or fabrics may discolour or be bleached. (Urine does that too unfortunately)

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    Feb 01, 2013 4:40 PM GMT
    ^^

    Thanks, all. We've done all of that, very consistently. It's been 3 months. He is well crate-trained and spends the night there without complaining, but it is disheartening to think of him in there again all the time and leashed to us. Spots are quickly cleaned with Nature's Miracle.

    We tend to reward more with praise than treats, as he's just not really treat motivated.

    Has anyone used a belly band? I've seen some folks saying the work great - supposedly they discourage accidents. But if he does one it doesn't ruin anything, and he won't like the result.

    PawlicityJanuary.jpg



  • hawkeye7

    Posts: 565

    Feb 01, 2013 4:41 PM GMT
    the whole peeing on him thing worked for me, boy dogs get it
    I thought is was really grouse but it worked He stopped when he realized he was messing in my world. It has been nearly 11 years.
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:41 PM GMT
    fable saidnext time you catch him in the act unzip and piss on him.


    rinse and repeat til he learns his lesson.


    Now, THERE'S an idea. icon_lol.gif

    Has the little guy been snipped? I kept a chihuahua/dachshund mix for a neighbor. Little guy was NOT snipped, and he lifted his leg on anything black. Chair leg, trash bag...my school computer bag. icon_evil.gif Luckily, I have terrazzo floors.
    When I spoke to some friends, and Petsmart, they said an un-neutered pup/dog has the need to mark their territory and neutering helps stop that...so I told our neighbor that she needed to give him the snip-snip...and THANKS for telling me about the dog's pissing problem. icon_evil.gif

    ...if your dog is already neutered...nevermind. icon_neutral.gif
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:41 PM GMT
    I like the belly band idea.
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:42 PM GMT
    showme said
    credo said^
    Exactly


    Thanks. We've done all of that, very consistently. It's been 3 months.

    Has anyone used a belly band? I've seen some folks saying the work great - supposedly they discourage accidents. But if he does one it doesn't ruin anything, and he won't like the result.

    PawlicityJanuary.jpg





    Could be Behavioural issues with this - the dog then becomes accustomed to smelling his own urine wherever he is - for a dog with a behavioural issue, it may make things worse.
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:43 PM GMT
    n8698u said
    Has the little guy been snipped?


    Yes, the shelter did it before putting him up for adoption.
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:44 PM GMT
    showme said
    n8698u said
    Has the little guy been snipped?


    Yes, the shelter did it before putting him up for adoption.


    Durr...of course.
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:46 PM GMT
    n8698u said
    fable saidnext time you catch him in the act unzip and piss on him.


    rinse and repeat til he learns his lesson.


    Now, THERE'S an idea. icon_lol.gif

    Has the little guy been snipped? I kept a chihuahua/dachshund mix for a neighbor. Little guy was NOT snipped, and he lifted his leg on anything black. Chair leg, trash bag...my school computer bag. icon_evil.gif Luckily, I have terrazzo floors.
    When I spoke to some friends, and Petsmart, they said an un-neutered pup/dog has the need to mark their territory and neutering helps stop that...so I told our neighbor that she needed to give him the snip-snip...and THANKS for telling me about the dog's pissing problem. icon_evil.gif

    ...if your dog is already neutered...nevermind. icon_neutral.gif


    This is very true - and Neutered behaviour is Different to un-Neutered, but if the behaviour is well established, neutering may not stop it.
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:48 PM GMT
    How old is the little feller?

    Was he a show-dog or property of a breeder / someone who didn't allow him out of a crate?
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    Feb 01, 2013 4:50 PM GMT
    sc69 saidHow old is the little feller?

    Was he a show-dog or property of a breeder / someone who didn't allow him out of a crate?


    They estimated 6-9 months when we got him, so likely 9 months to a year.

    According to the shelter, he belonged to someone who worked long hours and kept him crated almost all the time. Which makes sense because when we got him he was completely crate trained (no soiling in the crate at all) but not trained in any other way.

    BTW, I work long hours too, but the bf works from home or out at our farm, so the doggie has company almost 24/7.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Feb 01, 2013 4:55 PM GMT
    Just keep trying everything. I've had six English Setters for 30 years and never had a problem with housebreaking until my most current one. She's now 14 months old and we've only just gotten her housebroken. Sort of. And I mean she'd get up in the middle of the night in our bed and crap ON the bed! If I stopped to even fumble for the keys before taking her out in the morning after being out at midnight the night before she'd crap in the foyer or on the staircase. She wasn't being vengeful (as some dogs can be) or bored or any logical pattern. She just wouldn't be housebroken. But she's mostly come around. Just stay with your pup. My guess is it is the cat odor, whether they marked or not. Or maybe it is the dog but either way, he will come around. Just pay for the damage and carpet cleaners and hang in there. Mine chewed the ball and claw off a $30,000 dining room table. But that was OK because her predecessor chewed off one of the others. Have you thought about a dog door?

    **Oh, and I do believe in sticking their noses in the mess and giving one good whap with your hand. Especially a male. Sometimes you have to speak DOG to a dog and physical dominance determines pack rank.