After San Francisco County banned plastic grocery bags, ER admissions increased by one fourth, and deaths exhibited similar increase

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    Feb 01, 2013 5:29 PM GMT
    Don't forget to sanitize your reusable grocery bags or pay for the plastic ones...

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2196481

    Recently, many jurisdictions have implemented bans or imposed taxes upon plastic grocery bags on environmental grounds. San Francisco County was the first major US jurisdiction to enact such a regulation, implementing a ban in 2007. There is evidence, however, that reusable grocery bags, a common substitute for plastic bags, contain potentially harmful bacteria. We examine emergency room admissions related to these bacteria in the wake of the San Francisco ban. We find that ER visits spiked when the ban went into effect. Relative to other counties, ER admissions increase by at least one fourth, and deaths exhibit a similar increase.
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    Feb 02, 2013 12:58 AM GMT
    Er, is this supposed to be a joke? Or just a cautionary tale that law students shouldn't pretend to be epidemiologists...
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Feb 02, 2013 1:02 AM GMT
    people are pigs, fuck the enviroment
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    Feb 02, 2013 8:01 AM GMT
    Only dry goods go into my reusable bags. Meats and frozen/damp stuff.. I pay the 10 cents for the paper bag.
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    Feb 02, 2013 8:22 AM GMT
    Timbales saidpeople are pigs, fuck the enviroment


    Can't we just fuck the pigs and people the environment?
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    Feb 02, 2013 8:32 AM GMT
    Interesting suggestion, Narciso, though the direct implementation may not be the most attractive means of makin' bacon.

    Years ago, I purchased a machine which will, within practical limits, remove harmful bacteria from reusable shopping bags with convenience and efficiency. It is called a washing machine and may also be employed for cleansing of other household textiles. Most ingenious it is.
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    Feb 02, 2013 8:34 AM GMT
    mindgarden saidEr, is this supposed to be a joke? Or just a cautionary tale that law students shouldn't pretend to be epidemiologists...


    Lol! How true.
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    Feb 02, 2013 8:35 AM GMT
    LJay said
    Years ago, I purchased a machine which will, within practical limits, remove harmful bacteria from reusable shopping bags with convenience and efficiency. It is called a washing machine and may also be employed for cleansing of other household textiles. Most ingenious it is.



    ..icon_eek.gif

    BURN THE WITCH!!!!!!!!!


    WitchBeer.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 02, 2013 5:17 PM GMT
    Solution: Cloth bags. Cotton or burlap.

    Those reusable bags are often made of recycled plastic bags. They don't wash all that well as it shortens their lifespan considerably. They can't be recycled and end up as more plastic in landfills or in the ocean.

    Best practice for some people is to buy a roll of plastic bags for FAR cheaper than at the 5 or 10 cents per bag and take them with you when you shop. Bring used plastic bags back to grocery stores where they accept them for recycling into things other than reusable shopping bags.

    As for the topic's 'study'; load of rubbish. People have been using dirty knapsacks and dirty cloth bags for decades.

    Wash them.



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    Feb 02, 2013 5:24 PM GMT


    And btw, this is what Riddie is NOT mentioning:

    "The Plastic Shore: Waste Build-up in the North Pacific Ocean, Twice the Size of Texas"

    img_great-pacific-garbage-patch_2.jpg?w=

    "Generally referred to as the “Great Pacific Garbage Patch,” this island sits in the untouched waters between Hawaii and North America’s western coast. Plastic waste and other non degradable materials are being swept into the North Pacific gyre, a vortex of rotating ocean currents that’s roughly 12,000 miles long. The counterclockwise motion of the gyre deposits waste into the center of the Garbage Patch which consists of about 80 percent plastic.

    Plastic waste is mistakenly perceived as biodegradable when in reality it is photodegradable, which means sunlight breaks the waste into smaller pieces that are ingested by organisms. These miniscule organisms are then hunted by larger fish that are in turn digested by humans. The plastic debris releases a toxic chemical known as Bisphenol A (BPA) which scientists have linked to reproductive problems, liver and kidney disease, and diabetes."

    Consider this last bolded statement the next time to see Riddie screaming on topics about the unsustainable healthcare etc. while encouraging pollution or denying pollution.. icon_lol.gif


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 02, 2013 5:26 PM GMT
    They are banning ags here in Austin too unfortunately. Hopefully paperbags are an option.
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    Feb 02, 2013 5:29 PM GMT
    Years ago, I bought a dozen of these on ebay for about fifty bucks. I keep a couple of them in each vehicle and on the boat. They're useful in the garden and the greenhouse and just around the house too.

    28L%20Plastic%20Hand%20Basket%20%20%20wi

    The only problem is that sometimes the bimbo cashiers at the supermarket try to take them from me and I have to wrestle them back.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 02, 2013 5:33 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    And btw, this is what Riddie is NOT mentioning:

    "The Plastic Shore: Waste Build-up in the North Pacific Ocean, Twice the Size of Texas"

    img_great-pacific-garbage-patch_2.jpg?w=

    "Generally referred to as the “Great Pacific Garbage Patch,” this island sits in the untouched waters between Hawaii and North America’s western coast. Plastic waste and other non degradable materials are being swept into the North Pacific gyre, a vortex of rotating ocean currents that’s roughly 12,000 miles long. The counterclockwise motion of the gyre deposits waste into the center of the Garbage Patch which consists of about 80 percent plastic.

    Plastic waste is mistakenly perceived as biodegradable when in reality it is photodegradable, which means sunlight breaks the waste into smaller pieces that are ingested by organisms. These miniscule organisms are then hunted by larger fish that are in turn digested by humans. The plastic debris releases a toxic chemical known as Bisphenol A (BPA) which scientists have linked to reproductive problems, liver and kidney disease, and diabetes."

    Consider this last bolded statement the next time to see Riddie screaming on topics about the unsustainable healthcare etc. while encouraging pollution or denying pollution.. icon_lol.gif




    Um... in point of fact most of that is gross exaggeration and uninformed speculation. And a staged photograph. Envirobabble. Just as bad as the OP.
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    Feb 02, 2013 5:41 PM GMT
    A link would be helpful mindgarden.

    PS I put as much thought into my post as Riddie deserved and not one ounce more.

    Plastics as an environmental hazard is a huge problem and has been for some time. So please specify what part is envirobabble..

    icon_question.gif

    http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/the-fatal-shore-awash-in-plastic/

    There's your opinion, and hundreds of articles, some medical, that state otherwise.

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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 02, 2013 5:57 PM GMT
    Possibilities

    1. Increased ER admissions, etc., may be due to the unnecessary stress cause by suddenly altering everybody's biorhythms and producing excess anxiety. "Oh, I forgot my bags, what do I do now? - etc., etc., etc."

    2. The volume of waste saved is probably a minuscule fraction of the total plastic waste time bomb.

    3. I suspect the people who came up with this law, in California anyway, never do their own shopping. They are all Sacramento millionaires with servants.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 02, 2013 10:00 PM GMT
    The law is just inconsistent. Some cities ban bags, some don't. And within those cities that do the ban, restaurants are still allowed to use bags. And forgive me if I am wrong, but don't they still allow rolls of small plastic bags for putting your loose veggies and fruits before you even make it to checkout? What about raw meat & poultry packagings? Not to mention all the plastic trash bags that are still available for sale on the shelves.

    I'm just grateful that the small town I live in still haven't bought into this BS, and some merchants in town also offer alternatives such as paper bags made with recycled materials.
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    Feb 02, 2013 10:07 PM GMT
    mindgarden saidYears ago, I bought a dozen of these on ebay for about fifty bucks. I keep a couple of them in each vehicle and on the boat. They're useful in the garden and the greenhouse and just around the house too.

    28L%20Plastic%20Hand%20Basket%20%20%20wi

    The only problem is that sometimes the bimbo cashiers at the supermarket try to take them from me and I have to wrestle them back.



    Really?!
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Feb 02, 2013 10:09 PM GMT
    Narciso said
    Timbales saidpeople are pigs, fuck the enviroment


    Can't we just fuck the pigs and people the environment?


    oink oink
  • Whipmagic

    Posts: 1481

    Feb 02, 2013 10:21 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    mindgarden saidEr, is this supposed to be a joke? Or just a cautionary tale that law students shouldn't pretend to be epidemiologists...


    Lol! How true.


    Sad, isn't it. But that's how we train them in law school: substance doesn't matter, it's all about the structure of the argument. A lawyer frienfd of mine told me about a trial where the attorneys argued about a losses due to a defective piece of equipment; and "electromat". After agruing in the abstract for a while, the judge asked what that thing actually is, and what it does. Both attorneys had no clue, and they promised to check back with their clients. As it turned out, the "electromat" was just an abbreviation for "electronic materials". Apparently, neither of the attorneys even understood their case.

    Unfortunately, this isn't just limited to lawyers - politicians are even worse. They presume that they can make economic policy based on ideology, without even trying to understand Econ 101. Or, remember "legitimate rape" health care policy without knowing the most basic things about medicine. Scary, to say the least.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Feb 02, 2013 10:28 PM GMT
    Oh Lord. Why are people treating another preposterous link with preposterous logic posted by a preposterous RealJocker seriously?

    This is a classic example of logical fallacy of correlation vs. cause: it is true that as ice cream sales increase, the rate of drowning deaths increases. Unthinking whacko right-wing nutjobs then post garbage like this "BREAKING NEWS: Ice cream consumption causes drowning!"

    No, the reason is that ice cream sales increase in summer, when more people are going swimming. That is the reason for the increase in drowning deaths, not the ice cream itself.

    So now we have "BREAKING NEWS: Plastic ban leads to DEATH!" Oh please. Riddler posted a link to an abstract of a paper. There link provides exactly ZERO evidence 1) that in response to the ban most people started using re-usable bags or 2) that the dead emergency room users ever even used reusable bags or 4) that the ER visits and deaths were even due to food-borne illness in the in the first place.

    Maybe the plastic bag ban led to an increase in PAPER bag use and not reusable bag use? Maybe the increase in ER visits and emergency room deaths is due to recent temperature changes in California? Who knows? There's not enough facts here to prove anything.

    Facts don't matter to Republicans, but please guys, let's not all start giving every nutty right-wing conspiracy theory attention.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 03, 2013 3:12 AM GMT
    Troy said, " This is a classic example of logical fallacy of correlation vs. cause: it is true that as ice cream sales increase, the rate of drowning deaths increases. Unthinking whacko right-wing nutjobs then post garbage like this "BREAKING NEWS: Ice cream consumption causes drowning!"

    No, the reason is that ice cream sales increase in summer, when more people are going swimming. That is the reason for the increase in drowning deaths, not the ice cream itself."

    This is so accurate and to the point I had to quote it.




  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Feb 03, 2013 9:04 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    This is so accurate and to the point I had to quote it.



    I try.
  • sfdann

    Posts: 22

    Feb 03, 2013 9:12 PM GMT
    Well you almost had it right TroyAthlete. Until you suggested that the only people who make these kind of proclamations are Republicans. I'm from San Francisco (where there are virtually NO Republicans) and we have ALL kinds of insane proclamations about corollaries that are nothing but babble to serve a political agenda. Both parties are EQUALLY capable of this kind of crap. Thanks for keeping it in mind.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 03, 2013 9:15 PM GMT
    ive never washed mine. But I dont use them enough to wash them really.
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    Feb 03, 2013 9:22 PM GMT
    Couldn't help mah self...