BSoA = NAMBLA?

  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Aug 30, 2007 3:57 AM GMT
    This is the kind of shit the pisses me off:
    Rawstory

    CBS News reported Tuesday on "disturbing revelations" regarding the Boy Scouts, saying that "over the last 60 years, at least 5,100 adult leaders were kicked out of the Scouts because of allegations of sexual abuse."

    That figure emerged as the result of a lawsuit against the Scouts by two brothers, who told CBS they were abused throughout their entire childhoods by an assistant scoutmaster who has since acknowledged his guilt.

    "Thousands of secret Boy Scout files ... were turned over to the brothers' attorney" as a result of the suit, CBS reported, and the attorney told CBS his analysis showed troop leaders were being tossed out for suspected abuse every three days before 1991 and every 2 days since then.

    The Boy Scouts insist that these numbers represent only a tiny percentage of scoutmasters, and the organization now requires criminal background checks and has instituted educational policies intended to prevent abuse. Despite the increased scrutiny, the head of the Scouts' child abuse prevention program was convicted in 2005 of trafficking in child pornography.

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    Aug 30, 2007 4:33 PM GMT
    It's not really surprising, and kind of hard to interpret. I spent a lot of time (in my younger years) in the BSA and there are good things and bad things about it. The atmosphere between different troops can be very different, depending on the families and sponsor organizations that are involved.

    In our town, BSA has always been kind of low-key, and focuses on getting kids together for hiking and camping. It was really weird when we started mixing with other troops for more organized activities. Some troops are run strictly as indoctrination camps for the sponsoring church. Some are run by twisted people who put the kids through constant boot-camp type of drills. Sometimes both of the above. Really weird stuff.

    I'm sure that our families considered pretty much ALL of some troops' leaders to be "deviants," and they probably thought that we were too. Anyway, as long as the families are involved in the troops, they get the kind of organization that they want.
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    Aug 30, 2007 4:39 PM GMT
    In my troop it was other kids' dads who were the leaders. I wonder if that's changed over the last couple of decades.
  • jc_online

    Posts: 487

    Aug 30, 2007 4:53 PM GMT
    The Boy Scouts are getting the attention they deserve. I was in the Boy Scouts for many years, even got my Eagle rank back in 1979 - which I am still very proud of; however, that group has changed so much over the last 25 years.

    Their mis-guided belief that queers are the pedophiles is wrong; 98% of molesters identify as straight.

    I personally never witnessed any innapropriate behavior by any adult while I was in the BSA, but I heard about it now and then.

    They've brought it on themselves by their actions and secrecy.
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    Aug 30, 2007 7:35 PM GMT
    Pedophilia is another form of sexuality. Pedophiles are neither gay nor straight, they are pedophiles. Imagine if it was truly illegal, and certainly damning if you ever get caught, for you to have sex with everyone you are sexually attracted to, and that is the life of a pedophile.

    There is such a hunt for pedophiles as though it is the worst crime in the history of man (the punishment is as such) that a lot of 'innocent' people are tagged as such via technicality. I've known more than one college student who is a convicted sex offender for the next 10 years because they had sex with a 16 and 17 year old girl that said they were 21 at a party. The girls' parents found out, and charges were filed.

    I have a friend that is in his 30's and is a convicted sex offender because of an incident at a christian camp where he was 18 and he was having sex with a 17 year old. They got caught, and in the suing the church for molestation craze, charges were pressed by the 17 year old's parents, and they got their lawsuit too.

    My brother met a girl on a 21 and older site, he got caught having sex with her in a park (stupid), she lied about her age and used her parent's credit card to join the site. He got deferred adjudication, but due to a lot of political bullshit to make the police look good, It is currently impossible for him to get a job, and he is constantly harassed by police. He may face jail time in the near future for what I know to be complete bullshit.

    The punishment is a million times more 'sick' than the crime. That is the kinda shit that pisses me off.
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    Aug 31, 2007 2:11 AM GMT
    I play cards with a Scout leader. According to the rules he follows, he's not allowed to be alone with any of the scouts. Two adults have to be present at all times.

    He's been doing it for years, but he's dropping it because liked it because of the activites and Scouting brought him a sense of pride. But with the problems, that pride has become tarnished.

    Those types of draconic rules stem from abuses to trust - but how many abuses before BSA got draconic - who knows?

    I have no first hand knowledge of any mis-doings.

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    Aug 31, 2007 6:22 AM GMT
    I remember when my university president wanted all the college's student leaders to take part in BSoA in helping guide them in to college and hopefully in to the university. The problem was that a large majority of the school and the student leaders rejected the idea because of the fact that most of the leaders were gay or gay friendly and didnt agree with the stance that gay people couldnt be moral or for that matter great leaders. Its like hello stupid look around you. needless to say she changed her mind about the idea as it was obvious the students didnt want it.
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    Sep 13, 2007 2:38 AM GMT
    OMG!
    no NAMBLA and BSoA together in one sentence....ewwwww
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    Sep 13, 2007 4:22 AM GMT
    "Some troops are run strictly as indoctrination camps for the sponsoring church. Some are run by twisted people who put the kids through constant boot-camp type of drills. Sometimes both of the above. Really weird stuff." -- Mindgarden

    Can you say "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon)"? They are the single largest supporter of BSA in the world. They have leaders at all levels in the BSA. I would daresay that they are the biggest influence against gay men serving as scout leaders. Too bad they can't tell the difference between a pedophile and a great, moral, gay leader.

    I only went to cubs and webelos, and the leaders were the fathers of the boys, and the fathers accompanied the boys to scout meetings (except for den meetings -- we had den mothers).

    Can you say "feminization"?

  • CincyBOJ

    Posts: 306

    Sep 13, 2007 4:33 AM GMT
    I went through cub scouts and we-blows, when I got into boy scouts, my troup kinda went down hill. But we did get to go caving (spelunking) and hiking. Those are 2 of my favorite past times.
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Sep 13, 2007 5:06 PM GMT
    I strongly believe that men and woman that have sex with children need to be more severely dealt with in this country and around the world. Especially for those offenders where there is no question of their innocense. Not the 18 or 20 yr old who has sex with a willing boyfriend or girlfriend. There is a huge difference. Unfortunately, more men than woman are pedophiles. There doesn't seem to be any real long term effective treatment for people like this and where in the world can you keep people like this from ever coming in contact with little girls and boys! Prison!!-- Neutering!

    I think people forget about the victims and how their lives are NEVER ever the same. The cycle must be broken!! Some of these children-not all -go on to do the same thing to children when they grow up. It is not about the sex- it is a sickness and a control issue.
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    Sep 13, 2007 5:15 PM GMT
    agreed w/ sureshot
  • jc_online

    Posts: 487

    Sep 13, 2007 7:08 PM GMT
    Church of the Latter Day Saints, the Catholic Church, and the American Legion are the 3 top organizations sponsoring/hosting Boy Scout Troops in the USA, not around the world. All 3 of these organizations (LDS being the largest sponsor) has made it clear that they do not support gays among their ranks, as leaders or youth. Sadly, the BSA has decided to follow the money instead of what is right. LDS even threatened to end all scouting if gays were openly allowed. However, the BSA bigotry and short-sightedness continues to backfire on them.

    Around the world, or the World Scouting Movement, does not discriminate against gays as leaders or youth.

    there wasa group started in California (www.scoutingforall.org) by a youth as his Eagle Scout project. His leader endorsed the project and he got his Eagle rank, but the leader, even though straight, was ousted because of his progressive leanings (not the official reason, but had much to do with it).

    I had great experiences in Scouting, none ever sexually inappropriate. I still list Eagle Scout on my resume- right below my work experience that includes Associate Director of a Gay/Lesbian Community Center and AIDS Taskforce.

    I'm proud of my Scouting experience and accomplishments, and what the group originally stood for, but I'm really ashamed of what they've become. It's not what Sir Baden-Powell had in mind when he founded the organization.
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    Sep 15, 2007 9:33 PM GMT
    jc was very lucky. i didn't belong to the scouts. my mother wouldn't let me join. i would like to believe i didn't miss anything.
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    Sep 15, 2007 10:12 PM GMT
    I had read a report about the allegations and being ejected from the BSA for being gay was lumped in with actual sexual abuse allegations. Unfortunately, since I didn't make a note of the source, I can't tell you where it came from, but I know it was a valid news organization as opposed to a fringe group. I just don't remember which one.

    I was in the Scouts for one year in my teens. There were two troups that were associated with two churches. One was Catholic and the other was Protestant. I was raised Catholic (it was Boston area) and the troup I joined was the Protestant Troup because there were more of my friends in that Troup. I was ostracized by the leader because I was Catholic, and quit after one year.
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    Sep 16, 2007 12:49 PM GMT
    I was in Boy Scouts, as a kid, and my troop really wasn't the least bit homophobic or even very religious (the most it ever got was saying creeds or pledges that referenced God, as in the Pledge of Allegiance). We even had a kid in the troop who had two moms, and it was just a total nonissue. They also emphasized tolerance and acceptance. I'm pretty certain we didn't have any pedophile scoutmasters either. Nobody ever really paid much attention to what BSA National thought about things. But I guess I just got lucky, and had a good experience, I know other folks who had much less tolerant environments.