Oregon bakery refuses to make same-sex wedding cake

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 03, 2013 5:53 AM GMT
    What [bakery owner] Klein wants to make clear is that he and his wife do not hate homosexuals.

    "They can buy my stuff," said Klein. "I'll sell them stuff ... I'll talk to them, it's fine."

    What is not fine, according to Klein, is a marriage between people of the same sex. He will always stand by that conviction. [And not sell them a wedding cake]

    ORS 659A.403 is the law in question. In short, it prohibits discrimination in places of public accommodation. Klein and his wife have two weeks to respond to the Oregon Department of Justice's inquiry into what happened.


    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50679304/ns/us_news-life/#.UQ36aqXy9UQ
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    Feb 03, 2013 9:12 AM GMT
    I think it's such a shame they couldn't get their cake. With that said, the bakery owners have their business and it's fair game if they don't want to make a cake for a same-sex wedding. The government is really in no position to punish them for that. The law shouldn't. But that's what's nice about a supportive community of conscious consumers is that they can boycott and choose not to shop there. I will hope that the ladies find a baker who will be more supportive.
  • Whipmagic

    Posts: 1481

    Feb 03, 2013 12:18 PM GMT
    Scotticus saidI think it's such a shame they couldn't get their cake. With that said, the bakery owners have their business and it's fair game if they don't want to make a cake for a same-sex wedding. The government is really in no position to punish them for that. The law shouldn't. But that's what's nice about a supportive community of conscious consumers is that they can boycott and choose not to shop there. I will hope that the ladies find a baker who will be more supportive.


    The argument that it's ok to discriminate against customers in a business that's open to the public based on the argument that it's a private business and can refuse to serve anyone for any reason, no matter how base, has been tried an thoroughly rejected - case in point: the lunch counter at Woolworth's in Greensboro, NC, in 1960.
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    Feb 03, 2013 12:31 PM GMT
    Take my business elsewhere, or make that cake MYSELF!

    Forget giving hate a free platform against my unalienable Rights! Bull!
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    Feb 03, 2013 12:34 PM GMT
    The fact is that a business opened to the public has certain laws it must abide by. One of them is that it cannot arbitrarily discriminate against people based on sexual orientation. This bakery is opened to the public and, hence, the law applied to it. The moral is that one shouldn't mix business with personal beliefs.
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    Feb 03, 2013 12:44 PM GMT
    sweetyork saidThe fact is that a business opened to the public has certain laws it must abide by. One of them is that it cannot arbitrarily discriminate against people based on sexual orientation. This bakery is opened to the public and, hence, the law applied to it. The moral is that one shouldn't mix business with personal beliefs.

    I'd still go elsewhere, but if they must take it to court, than more power to them! This shouldn't be news, unless it's a victory against this archaic bull! It's just being presented in the stadium of opinion, and shown as a matter of fact. The fact being, that bakery is neglecting their patrons right to pursue happiness, by buying a bigot cake.
  • turtleneckjoc...

    Posts: 4685

    Feb 03, 2013 12:47 PM GMT
    If it were a male/female interracial couple would they have not done a cake for them?

    More than likely.

    Damn Republicans!
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    Feb 03, 2013 12:53 PM GMT
    turtleneckjock saidIf it were a male/female interracial couple would they have not done a cake for them?

    More than likely.

    Damn Republicans!

    There's still a social gain in gay discrimination, even closet gay/bi's against out gay/bi's. Social equity for the ignorant unethical souls.
  • Sportsfan1

    Posts: 479

    Feb 03, 2013 12:54 PM GMT
    So many good points have already been expressed. I am sure the couple in question can find a supportive bakery. The community should boycott this bakery. When the owners start feeling the hurt in their pockets, they will reconsider. Of course legally they cannot and should not discriminate. This is abhorrent and should not be tolerated. My best wishes to the couple.
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    Feb 03, 2013 1:03 PM GMT
    sweetyork saidThe fact is that a business opened to the public has certain laws it must abide by. One of them is that it cannot arbitrarily discriminate against people based on sexual orientation. This bakery is opened to the public and, hence, the law applied to it. The moral is that one shouldn't mix business with personal beliefs.


    It will be difficult to make a case against the bakery. Because the couple wasn't necessarily discriminated against because of their orientation per se. If it had been more explicitly against their orientation, then yes, that would be an illegal act. It was a statement about marriage. People can disapprove of the idea of a marriage between same sex partners but still be for civil unions. Furthermore, the bakers may ultimately justify themselves because Oregon's constitution explicitly prohibits same-sex marriage. They will not bake a cake for a marriage that, by state constitutional law, is in fact illegal.

    In response to the comment about interracial marriage situations, from how I see it, that would be wrong on the basis that interracial marriages are universally legal. Due to the status of same-sex marriage bans and legalization in different states, as well as DOMA hopefully to be repealed or ruled unconstitutional, it comes into a gray area. At what point does it become outright discrimination if you, say, don't support marriage but support domestic partnerships with all the same benefits like in Oregon? If the cake was intended not for a marriage ceremony, but a domestic partnership ceremony, that might make the area even grayer. We'll just have to see how the legal system handles this.


  • shutoman

    Posts: 505

    Feb 03, 2013 1:16 PM GMT
    sweetyorkThe fact is that a business opened to the public has certain laws it must abide by. One of them is that it cannot arbitrarily discriminate against people based on sexual orientation. This bakery is opened to the public and, hence, the law applied to it. The moral is that one shouldn't mix business with personal beliefs.


    Assuming this is true, the discrimination here is not against gay people, it is against gay marriage. The Baker is openly admitting that he will sell them a cake; just not a wedding cake.

    So, if he is willing to ice the cake with any other lawful message, it is less easy to say the discrimination relates to the orientation, but to the public policy of gay marriage.

    I am acutely aware of the limits of the law. Given that evangelicals will now be flocking to this bakery (though probably only for the next month) and that it is in Oregon, I suggest that a boycott (not a picket or a demo, why make this man a martyr?) just a boycott will be enough.

    Independent bakers need all the business they can get. I doubt he'll last a year. If he wants to stand up for his principles, let him take the business consequences. He'll be sorrier, and more out of pocket, and gay campaigners won't have taken the risk of establishing a possibly unfavourable precedent (after many years of getting to SCOTUS).

    Apologies for duplicating some of your excellent points, Scotticus.
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    Feb 03, 2013 1:20 PM GMT
    Why don't they just go to another bakery...?
  • 24hourguy

    Posts: 364

    Feb 03, 2013 1:40 PM GMT
    We have a similar bakery-situation here in Denver. -I'd rather give my money to people who don't hate me -Fuck 'em!
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 03, 2013 1:44 PM GMT
    24hourguy saidWe have a similar bakery-situation here in Denver. -I'd rather give my money to people who don't hate me -Fuck 'em!



    +1
    I have no desire to support the establishment of people who discriminate, period.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 03, 2013 1:47 PM GMT
    If they want to exclude specific demographics from their market, it's their business. Kind of short-sighted, and emotion-based, decision though.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 03, 2013 1:50 PM GMT
    Do we really want someone that hates us to bake our wedding cake?
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    Feb 03, 2013 2:13 PM GMT
    A story: conservative Fargo, North Dakota has a privately owned candy store where they make their own stuff, the best place in town, a 4th-generation family tradition. So that's where I went for my BF's Valentine's Day gift in 2005 (now my ex).

    http://www.carolwidmanscandyco.com

    The store was packed the day before the holiday, and they had all kinds of empty heart boxes piled up on tables. You selected the style you wanted, then took it to the counter to have it filled to your preference. The cost was typically about $200+ USD, depending on what you selected, their candies not cheap.

    One table had his & her's boxes. The lids of the her's hearts were made to look like an evening gown, while the his lids were a tuxedo with black bow tie. Naturally I chose the tuxedo box for my BF.

    As I stood in line to have it filled I saw some surprised looks from other guys, since most of the customers were men. I began to wonder if the clerk would refuse to let me buy it.

    When my turn came at the counter the female employee was a bit startled.

    "Sir, you have the wrong box. This one is meant to be given to a man, not to a woman. You want the one with the gown on it."

    "Thank you, but this is the one I want."

    "Well... I need to check if we can sell you that." And she went to consult with another woman. It was the owner, Carol Widman, whom I recognized from social functions we had both attended, though I didn't know her personally.

    The clerk returned and said: "What would you like in your box?"

    A little victory in Fargo. Not for me, really, but for Carol Widman. If you're ever there, be sure to buy something from her shop, or order online. She's got good stuff. icon_biggrin.gif

    My BF, BTW, was delighted with his Valentine's gift, and kept the tuxedo heart box as a keepsake. His reaction when I presented it to him was worth any awkwardness I had in Carol's shop.
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    Feb 03, 2013 2:22 PM GMT
    If that's a hetty cake shop, then I'm the Queen of Sheba.

    same-sex-cake.grid-5x2.jpg
  • shutoman

    Posts: 505

    Feb 03, 2013 2:23 PM GMT
    Way to go, Art_Deco

    If we used the pink dollar/pound more strategically (instead of just giving it to straight club operators) we could achieve double the progress with double the good will and half the legislation.
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    Feb 03, 2013 2:55 PM GMT
    shutoman saidWay to go, Art_Deco

    If we used the pink dollar/pound more strategically (instead of just giving it to straight club operators) we could achieve double the progress with double the good will and half the legislation.

    Well yah know, some guys here slam me for being an "uber gay". I'm not really.

    I'm just Bob, and Bob happens to be gay. I don't look for opportunities to shove my orientation in your face. Rather, I go about my daily routine, doing mundane things, neither flaunting nor falsifying who I am.

    And sometimes my orientation is revealed in ordinary activities, which I don't disguise. Like when I bought a Valentine's heart box intended for a man. Or kissing my husband at a tourist spot, my current RJ profile pic. Or when I select birthday & holiday cards at the Hallmark store in the "Husband" section, surrounded by women staring at me. And then take my card up to the counter to get more stares from the clerks.

    I don't know if that makes me an uber-gay, but I sure as Hell am an unashamed-gay. Why would I live any other way?
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    Feb 03, 2013 3:05 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    shutoman saidWay to go, Art_Deco

    If we used the pink dollar/pound more strategically (instead of just giving it to straight club operators) we could achieve double the progress with double the good will and half the legislation.

    Well yah know, some guys here slam me for being an "uber gay". I'm not really.

    I'm just Bob, and Bob happens to be gay. I don't look for opportunities to shove my orientation in your face. Rather, I go about my daily routine, doing mundane things, neither flaunting nor falsifying who I am.

    And sometimes my orientation is revealed in ordinary activities, which I don't disguise. Like when I bought a Valentine's heart box intended for a man. Or kissing my husband at a tourist spot, my current RJ profile pic. Or when I select birthday & holiday cards at the Hallmark store in the "Husband" section, surrounded by women staring at me. And then take my card up to the counter to get more stares from the clerks.

    I don't know if that makes me an uber-gay, but I sure as Hell am an unashamed-gay. Why would I live any other way?



    100% agree with Deco... this is a capitalistic society so we vote with our money. Why would that couple want a homophobic bakery to make their cake.
  • widestance

    Posts: 40

    Feb 03, 2013 3:21 PM GMT
    The guy picks and chooses his bible verses

    "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD."
    Leviticus 19:28

    He has a tattoo.

    Hypocrite.
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    Feb 03, 2013 3:35 PM GMT
    Scotticus said
    sweetyork saidThe fact is that a business opened to the public has certain laws it must abide by. One of them is that it cannot arbitrarily discriminate against people based on sexual orientation. This bakery is opened to the public and, hence, the law applied to it. The moral is that one shouldn't mix business with personal beliefs.


    It will be difficult to make a case against the bakery. Because the couple wasn't necessarily discriminated against because of their orientation per se. If it had been more explicitly against their orientation, then yes, that would be an illegal act. It was a statement about marriage. People can disapprove of the idea of a marriage between same sex partners but still be for civil unions. Furthermore, the bakers may ultimately justify themselves because Oregon's constitution explicitly prohibits same-sex marriage. They will not bake a cake for a marriage that, by state constitutional law, is in fact illegal.

    In response to the comment about interracial marriage situations, from how I see it, that would be wrong on the basis that interracial marriages are universally legal. Due to the status of same-sex marriage bans and legalization in different states, as well as DOMA hopefully to be repealed or ruled unconstitutional, it comes into a gray area. At what point does it become outright discrimination if you, say, don't support marriage but support domestic partnerships with all the same benefits like in Oregon? If the cake was intended not for a marriage ceremony, but a domestic partnership ceremony, that might make the area even grayer. We'll just have to see how the legal system handles this.








    I agree with all points here and I just agree moreso on the point of boycotting this bakery. Let it be known by the lgbt family to just boycott this place.
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    Feb 03, 2013 3:44 PM GMT
    Mrap saidWhy don't they just go to another bakery...?


    This one!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 03, 2013 3:48 PM GMT
    lol, a great trick would be for a sympathetic straight coupe to go in, order a cake, and when they pick it up and as they are leaving, thank the bakery like this,

    The man says "Thanks! This is cool! My sis here and I are tying the knot tomorrow. You guys are great"

    Woman, "Isn't my brother nice?" and kisses man in front of them. Get it all on iphone and tell bakery to watch for vid on Facbook.

    Tah-dah!