Gay marriage?!

  • bish123

    Posts: 17

    Feb 05, 2013 2:22 PM GMT
    Am i the only gay guy who does not agree with gay marriage?
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    Feb 05, 2013 2:24 PM GMT
    Obviously not....Or it wouldn't be a hotly contested issue.
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    Feb 05, 2013 2:30 PM GMT
    bish123 saidAm i the only gay guy who does not agree with gay marriage?

    Why do you not agree with gay marriage? I am friends with 4 gay local couples who were married in States outside Florida (1 couple are our best friends). We'll likely be married ourselves if the Federal DOMA law is struck down or repealed, since at present even a legal marriage offered in some US States remains mostly symbolic within the country at large. When it has some real legal benefits we'll do it.
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    Feb 05, 2013 2:31 PM GMT
    bish123 saidAm i the only gay guy who does not agree with gay marriage?


    So don't get married. Should Bill and I divorce for you? icon_wink.gif
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    Feb 05, 2013 2:35 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    bish123 saidAm i the only gay guy who does not agree with gay marriage?

    Why do you not agree with gay marriage? I am friends with 4 gay local couples who were married in States outside Florida (1 couple are our best friends). We'll likely be married ourselves if the Federal DOMA law is struck down or repealed, since at present even a legal marriage offered in some US States remains mostly symbolic within the country at large.




    Same. I know at least 4 or 5 married local couples. They went to DC, NYC, or other cities to be married. For them, it is about the symbol and act of marriage that is important.

    I can see, however, gay men who support civil unions as it does not accompany religious sentiment like marriage does, at least by title.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 05, 2013 2:37 PM GMT
    I'm sure you have your reasons.... But why piss on other peoples' relationships?
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 05, 2013 2:38 PM GMT
    trm_dallas said
    ART_DECO said
    bish123 saidAm i the only gay guy who does not agree with gay marriage?

    Why do you not agree with gay marriage? I am friends with 4 gay local couples who were married in States outside Florida (1 couple are our best friends). We'll likely be married ourselves if the Federal DOMA law is struck down or repealed, since at present even a legal marriage offered in some US States remains mostly symbolic within the country at large.




    Same. I know at least 4 or 5 married local couples. They went to DC, NYC, or other cities to be married. For them, it is about the symbol and act of marriage that is important.

    I can see, however, gay men who support civil unions as it does not accompany religious sentiment like marriage does, at least by title.


    In places where gay marriage is illegal we can't get married by judges. Religion has nothing to do with it. You're a sucker for the propaganda.
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    Feb 05, 2013 2:49 PM GMT
    trm_dallas said
    I can see, however, gay men who support civil unions as it does not accompany religious sentiment like marriage does, at least by title.

    In the US ALL marriages are legally civil marriages at their heart. No church has the autonomous authority to marry anyone. Don't buy into this misleading church propaganda that makes it seem like marriage is their sole prerogative.

    After all, judges and other civil authorities legally marry people all the time. And it's called marriage, not civil union. Whereas ministers, rabbis and other religious leaders can't legally marry a couple without a duly issued marriage license from state authorities. In a church wedding the minister is performing the ceremony under civil authority granted from the state, acting as the state's agent. He/she may include whatever religious elements they choose, but the underlining legal authority comes from the State, not from God.

    Because without that official marriage license the ceremony has no validity in the eyes of the law, no matter how many prayers, blessings and other religious rituals take place.
  • bish123

    Posts: 17

    Feb 05, 2013 3:33 PM GMT
    civil partnership is the same thing as marriage so why kick up such a fuss about it, people can get married if they want i just think there are bigger more important things going on than wasting time on the marriage issue when civil partnership is the same thing is pointless?!
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    Feb 05, 2013 3:36 PM GMT
    bish123 saidcivil partnership is the same thing as marriage so why kick up such a fuss about it, people can get married if they want i just think there are bigger more important things going on than wasting time on the marriage issue when civil partnership is the same thing is pointless?!


    It isn't the same thing - look it up.

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Feb 05, 2013 3:42 PM GMT
    bish123 saidcivil partnership is the same thing as marriage so why kick up such a fuss about it, people can get married if they want i just think there are bigger more important things going on than wasting time on the marriage issue when civil partnership is the same thing is pointless?!


    Marriage may be unimportant to you, but to assume others see it that way makes you look foolish. I can't help but note that you're espousing exactly what homophobes want to hear. It's incredible how much you take for granted, when previous generations fought to their dying breaths for equality, or even just to get their voices heard.
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    Feb 05, 2013 3:45 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    bish123 saidcivil partnership is the same thing as marriage so why kick up such a fuss about it, people can get married if they want i just think there are bigger more important things going on than wasting time on the marriage issue when civil partnership is the same thing is pointless?!

    It isn't the same thing - look it up.

    Correct, they are 2 different conditions, with different rights & privileges appertaining thereto, at least in the United States. And marriage is a superior legal condition compared to civil union.

    I wouldn't mind if this was just a semantic discussion. But it's a tangible legal difference, where those in a civil union are disadvantaged versus those in a marriage.
  • bish123

    Posts: 17

    Feb 05, 2013 4:12 PM GMT


    Marriage may be unimportant to you, but to assume others see it that way makes you look foolish. I can't help but note that you're espousing exactly what homophobes want to hear. It's incredible how much you take for granted, when previous generations fought to their dying breaths for equality, or even just to get their voices heard.[/quote]

    Why do you think i take stuff for granted? and people did not die for gay marriage they fought for freedom of choice and that is what this thread is just because you don't agree, dont start the ohhhh people die for that argument as it is not valid in the conversation. i stated am i the only who thinks this as i wanted to see if any other gay guys thought the same as me?

    marriage and civil partnership are just 2 different labels for the same thing.
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    Feb 05, 2013 4:31 PM GMT
    "marriage and civil partnership are just 2 different labels for the same thing."

    *sighs* NO, they are not bish. Please look up the phenomenal difference. Marriage is the same all over the States. civil partnerships, where they are permitted, are a hodge-podge of varying rights, depending on where you live.

    Please research this! You have google!

    You make me very, very glad I live in Canada.
  • bish123

    Posts: 17

    Feb 05, 2013 4:38 PM GMT
    Awkward i live in the UK
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    Feb 05, 2013 4:58 PM GMT
    And for what reason do you disagree with it?

    I've never met a gay person who was against it. That's like meeting a slave who was pro-slavery.
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    Feb 05, 2013 5:08 PM GMT
    You're not the only one, but there aren't many. It's not a position that's going to garner you any respect from most gay men.

    If you don't want to get married, don't. But get out of the way of those who want to.

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    Feb 05, 2013 5:13 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    trm_dallas said
    I can see, however, gay men who support civil unions as it does not accompany religious sentiment like marriage does, at least by title.

    In the US ALL marriages are legally civil marriages at their heart. No church has the autonomous authority to marry anyone. Don't buy into this misleading church propaganda that makes it seem like marriage is their sole prerogative.

    After all, judges and other civil authorities legally marry people all the time. And it's called marriage, not civil union. Whereas ministers, rabbis and other religious leaders can't legally marry a couple without a duly issued marriage license from state authorities. In a church wedding the minister is performing the ceremony under civil authority granted from the state, acting as the state's agent. He/she may include whatever religious elements they choose, but the underlining legal authority comes from the State, not from God.

    Because without that official marriage license the ceremony has no validity in the eyes of the law, no matter how many prayers, blessings and other religious rituals take place.


    I think you are reading into my statement. I only meant that when I think of marriage I think of religion and the church, aside from the state. I wasn't saying that the institution of marriage is religious by nature. Hence the, "at least by title."
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    Feb 05, 2013 5:14 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    bish123 saidcivil partnership is the same thing as marriage so why kick up such a fuss about it, people can get married if they want i just think there are bigger more important things going on than wasting time on the marriage issue when civil partnership is the same thing is pointless?!


    Marriage may be unimportant to you, but to assume others see it that way makes you look foolish. I can't help but note that you're espousing exactly what homophobes want to hear. It's incredible how much you take for granted, when previous generations fought to their dying breaths for equality, or even just to get their voices heard.



    I completely agree.
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    Feb 05, 2013 5:16 PM GMT
    trm_dallas said

    I think you are reading into my statement. I only meant that when I think of marriage I think of religion and the church, aside from the state. I wasn't saying that the institution of marriage is religious by nature. Hence the, "at least by title."


    You're from Dallas - I grew up there. You may have a touch of Stockholm Syndrome from being surrounded by all those antigay religious folk.
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    Feb 05, 2013 5:17 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    trm_dallas said
    I can see, however, gay men who support civil unions as it does not accompany religious sentiment like marriage does, at least by title.

    In the US ALL marriages are legally civil marriages at their heart. No church has the autonomous authority to marry anyone. Don't buy into this misleading church propaganda that makes it seem like marriage is their sole prerogative.

    After all, judges and other civil authorities legally marry people all the time. And it's called marriage, not civil union. Whereas ministers, rabbis and other religious leaders can't legally marry a couple without a duly issued marriage license from state authorities. In a church wedding the minister is performing the ceremony under civil authority granted from the state, acting as the state's agent. He/she may include whatever religious elements they choose, but the underlining legal authority comes from the State, not from God.

    Because without that official marriage license the ceremony has no validity in the eyes of the law, no matter how many prayers, blessings and other religious rituals take place.


    You are so bloody right icon_biggrin.gif
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    Feb 05, 2013 5:23 PM GMT
    This should be good.
  • Laurence

    Posts: 942

    Feb 05, 2013 5:24 PM GMT
    I live in the UK too and I'm not too fussed about getting married either. As you can already get a civil partnership here.

    HOWEVER. I am interested in equality and why should Gay people not have the same rights as everyone else? It's not that long ago that Black people didn't have rights and women weren't allowed to vote.

    It's 2013 and all these religions banging on about how they invented marriage and how it 'belongs' to them should remember that it's up to God to judge and if he/she isn't happy about it, then maybe he/she should speak out.

    Hopefully the bill will be passed easily and we'll be getting married all over the place in the not too distant future.

    Lozx
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    Feb 05, 2013 5:25 PM GMT
    showme said
    trm_dallas said

    I think you are reading into my statement. I only meant that when I think of marriage I think of religion and the church, aside from the state. I wasn't saying that the institution of marriage is religious by nature. Hence the, "at least by title."


    You're from Dallas - I grew up there. You may have a touch of Stockholm Syndrome from being surrounded by all those antigay religious folk.


    I think it is because I was raised Catholic, and I resent organized religion.
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    Feb 05, 2013 5:26 PM GMT
    trm_dallas said
    ART_DECO said
    trm_dallas said
    I can see, however, gay men who support civil unions as it does not accompany religious sentiment like marriage does, at least by title.

    In the US ALL marriages are legally civil marriages at their heart. No church has the autonomous authority to marry anyone. Don't buy into this misleading church propaganda that makes it seem like marriage is their sole prerogative.

    After all, judges and other civil authorities legally marry people all the time. And it's called marriage, not civil union. Whereas ministers, rabbis and other religious leaders can't legally marry a couple without a duly issued marriage license from state authorities. In a church wedding the minister is performing the ceremony under civil authority granted from the state, acting as the state's agent. He/she may include whatever religious elements they choose, but the underlining legal authority comes from the State, not from God.

    Because without that official marriage license the ceremony has no validity in the eyes of the law, no matter how many prayers, blessings and other religious rituals take place.

    I think you are reading into my statement. I only meant that when I think of marriage I think of religion and the church, aside from the state. I wasn't saying that the institution of marriage is religious by nature. Hence the, "at least by title."

    Yes, my comments were addressed more to others reading this thread, than to you specifically, who merely opened the door to additional discussion & clarification. I should have made it clear that I wasn't implying fault with your post. icon_biggrin.gif