Calif. Gay-Marriage Ban Appears to Lose Support

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    Oct 03, 2008 12:31 AM GMT
    "Backers of a referendum to ban same-sex marriage in California are winning the fundraising race, but analysts and public polls suggest that voter sentiment appears to be turning against them.
    ....

    But according to a Field Poll released Sept. 18, 38 percent of likely voters backed the initiative, while 55 percent opposed it. Polls released shortly after the California Supreme Court ruled in May that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry found that voters were nearly equally divided on the issue at that point, polls showed. "

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/01/AR2008100103037.html?hpid=moreheadlines

  • Hunter9

    Posts: 1039

    Oct 03, 2008 3:32 AM GMT
    Regrettably, there is belief that polls are these type of issues are not that accurate since many respondents may respond over the phone FOR gay marriage because of social pressures, wherein fact they are actually against.

    Please donate to the No on Prop 8 people to ensure this doesn't pass
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    Oct 03, 2008 3:43 AM GMT
    Hunter9 saidRegrettably, there is belief that polls are these type of issues are not that accurate since many respondents may respond over the phone FOR gay marriage because of social pressures, wherein fact they are actually against.

    Please donate to the No on Prop 8 people to ensure this doesn't pass


    I just donated. The Web site is:

    http://noonprop8.com/contribute
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    Oct 03, 2008 3:47 AM GMT
    Doesn't help that none of the candidates support the issue!!!
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    Oct 03, 2008 3:49 AM GMT
    a1972guy saidDoesn't help that none of the candidates support the issue!!!

    why doesnt it....the pres doesnt set marriage laws....if the people show that they support gay marriage, then the politicians will support it.
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    Oct 03, 2008 3:51 AM GMT
    EDITED TO MAKE MYSELF CLEAR. I AM REBUTTING a1972guy's comment with this post.


    a1972guy saidDoesn't help that none of the candidates support the issue!!!


    I'll have to copy/paste what I wrote on another thread...and btw, those are were criticizing Palin because of her ignorance should stop criticizing her after making remarks such as the one above. 'Nuff said.

    I'll have to write this in caps (yes I'm yelling)

    MARRIAGE DOES NOT MEAN EQUALITY. DON'T GET STUCK ON A F***ING LABEL.

    WE CAN HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS W/OUT HAVING TO GET MARRIED, PLUS,. WHY THE F*** WOULD SOMEONE WANT TO GET MARRIED IF THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OPEN RELATIONSHIP???????????

    You can have CIVIL UNIONS, you can have COMMON LAW UNIONS and still have the same RIGHTS as MARRIAGE. I've been there, not in this country obviously but still. SO FORGET ABOUT DAMN LABELS.

    It's very hypocritical to one day bash McCain and Palin bc of the gay marriage issue and then the next start defending them because Obama and Biden don't support gay marriage. Aren't there any more pressing issues anyway?
    I'd rather not be able to get married and but know that I am not going to lose my job because I'm gay, that I'm not going to be denied healthcare because I'm gay, that I am not going to be evicted from my apartment because I'm gay. Get a grip people!!!!!!


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    Oct 03, 2008 3:58 AM GMT
    maverickcj_ca said
    a1972guy saidDoesn't help that none of the candidates support the issue!!!



    It's very hypocritical to one day bash McCain and Palin bc of the gay marriage issue and then the next start defending them because Obama and Biden don't support gay marriage. Aren't there any more pressing issues anyway?
    I'd rather not be able to get married and but know that I am not going to lose my job because I'm gay, that I'm not going to be denied healthcare because I'm gay, that I am not going to be evicted from my apartment because I'm gay. Get a grip people!!!!!!




    I don't live in California, so I am probably not as familiar with this proposal as you are. That said, should prop 8 pass, wouldn't it effectively kill Civil Unions in CA, as well? Further, doesn't this set a precedent whereby citizens can vote to deny a minority group rights afforded to the majority? If so, then I wouldn't hold my breath WRT healthcare, employment or housing equality.
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    Oct 03, 2008 4:05 AM GMT
    Ruck, my comment was not aimed at Proposition 8. I am thrilled that gays are able to marry. I was referring to the previous poster comment about how neither candidate supports the issue.

    Obama/Biden may not support gay "marriage" but they do support extending legal rights to gay couples. I guess I should have explained myself a little better.
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    Oct 03, 2008 4:07 AM GMT
    Oh..and also because in other posts, a lot of guys are infuriated by Biden's answer in the debate..It just seemed that to them that was the make or break issue to vote for Obama. Voting should not be so fickle.
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    Oct 03, 2008 6:39 AM GMT
    maverickcj_ca said
    MARRIAGE DOES NOT MEAN EQUALITY. DON'T GET STUCK ON A F***ING LABEL.

    WE CAN HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS W/OUT HAVING TO GET MARRIED, PLUS,. WHY THE F*** WOULD SOMEONE WANT TO GET MARRIED IF THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OPEN RELATIONSHIP???????????


    It may come as a shock to you, but not every gay person has or wants an open relationship.
  • Hunter9

    Posts: 1039

    Oct 03, 2008 6:40 AM GMT
    maverickcj_ca saidOh..and also because in other posts, a lot of guys are infuriated by Biden's answer in the debate..It just seemed that to them that was the make or break issue to vote for Obama. Voting should not be so fickle.


    if youre not going to vote for obama/biden because of biden's answer then your only logical choice is ralph nader... but in my opinion that's very narrow minded.

    did anybody really pay attention to palin's answer??? it was something along the lines of "don't misunderstand me, i will always accept whatever relationship anybody chooses to be in, even though that goes against the beliefs of some of my dear friends." so that means by her own words that some of her close friends don't even think gays should be able to be together, or something along those lines. i wish they could have asked a follow up a question with that dirty cunt.
  • Squarejaw

    Posts: 1035

    Oct 03, 2008 6:43 AM GMT
    maverickcj_ca saidYou can have CIVIL UNIONS, you can have COMMON LAW UNIONS and still have the same RIGHTS as MARRIAGE.
    No where in the US is there a civil union that provides the same rights as marriage. No where.
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    Oct 03, 2008 6:44 AM GMT
    Hunter9 said
    maverickcj_ca saidOh..and also because in other posts, a lot of guys are infuriated by Biden's answer in the debate..It just seemed that to them that was the make or break issue to vote for Obama. Voting should not be so fickle.


    if youre not going to vote for obama/biden because of biden's answer then your only logical choice is ralph nader... but in my opinion that's very narrow minded.

    did anybody really pay attention to palin's answer??? it was something along the lines of "don't misunderstand me, i will always accept whatever relationship anybody chooses to be in, even though that goes against the beliefs of some of my dear friends." so that means by her own words that some of her close friends don't even think gays should be able to be together, or something along those lines. i wish they could have asked a follow up a question with that dirty cunt.


    Did my post suggest in any way, shape or form that I do not support Obama/Biden? Read carefully before accusing someone of being narrow minded.

    I said that it seems that the marriage issue was a make or break point for some people on this website. They were very vocal against McCain/Palin and once they heard Biden's answer then they all went up in flames and feeling oh so deserted. That was my point. Thanks.
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    Oct 03, 2008 6:50 AM GMT
    Gemini said
    maverickcj_ca said
    MARRIAGE DOES NOT MEAN EQUALITY. DON'T GET STUCK ON A F***ING LABEL.

    WE CAN HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS W/OUT HAVING TO GET MARRIED, PLUS,. WHY THE F*** WOULD SOMEONE WANT TO GET MARRIED IF THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OPEN RELATIONSHIP???????????


    It may come as a shock to you, but not every gay person has or wants an open relationship.


    Did I say EVERY gay wants to have an open relationship???? Are people not getting my point? Sigh..I'll explain again....


    I NEVER said that EVERY gay wants to have an open relationship, that was a dumb assumption. My point was that so many guys have taken the whole marriage thing to a "make it or break it" point when it comes to voting for Obama. Some are in open relationships. While I do not question their love for each other, it is hard for me to grasp the whole concept of people being in open relationships and wanting to get married. To me marriage is about MONOGAMY and commitment. I'd like to think of of it as a "traditional" marriage without the whole "man and woman" thing..So there you have it..Ask for clarification before jumping to conclusions. Thanks.
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    Oct 03, 2008 6:56 AM GMT
    Ok seems like my posting above has been misread over and over and over and over and I'm tired of having to write individual explanations so here it goes;

    When I refer to civil unions and common law, I know that there is no such thing for gays in the United States. I have lived abroad and in a country where gay marriage was not allowed or at least not "defined" by law but gay couples were given every right and privilege as straight married couples.

    I have been reading the post-debate posts and a lot of guys feel betrayed by Biden's answer that neither he or Obama support gay marriage. I believe he did say he supports extending legal rights to gay people, something or other along those lines. My point is for people to not get hung up on a word. If Obama/Biden do not want to "redefine" marriage to include gays BUT would extend all legal rights to gay couples then that would be a tremendous step. It doesn't matter what they call it..marriage, civil union, partnership..as long as it is a step in the right direction. I'd rather have a step given in the right direction than none whatsoever, or even worse, have them take two steps (or more) back.

    Is it all clear now??
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    Oct 03, 2008 2:57 PM GMT
    maverickcj_ca saidOk seems like my posting above has been misread over and over and over and over and I'm tired of having to write individual explanations so here it goes;

    When I refer to civil unions and common law, I know that there is no such thing for gays in the United States. I have lived abroad and in a country where gay marriage was not allowed or at least not "defined" by law but gay couples were given every right and privilege as straight married couples.

    I have been reading the post-debate posts and a lot of guys feel betrayed by Biden's answer that neither he or Obama support gay marriage. I believe he did say he supports extending legal rights to gay people, something or other along those lines. My point is for people to not get hung up on a word. If Obama/Biden do not want to "redefine" marriage to include gays BUT would extend all legal rights to gay couples then that would be a tremendous step. It doesn't matter what they call it..marriage, civil union, partnership..as long as it is a step in the right direction. I'd rather have a step given in the right direction than none whatsoever, or even worse, have them take two steps (or more) back.

    Is it all clear now??



    um, you kind of brought the politics of the presidential debate into this thread on your own. if you go back to the first post you'll see that this thread was about the dying support for the gay marriage ban -- which we should all be happy about.

    Like Hunter9 said, "Please donate to the No on Prop 8 people to ensure this doesn't pass"
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    Oct 03, 2008 8:35 PM GMT
    genqb said


    um, you kind of brought the politics of the presidential debate into this thread on your own. if you go back to the first post you'll see that this thread was about the dying support for the gay marriage ban -- which we should all be happy about.

    Like Hunter9 said, "Please donate to the No on Prop 8 people to ensure this doesn't pass"


    Uhm..I believe it was guy1972 who kind of brought up politics with his comment..I was just making a rebuttal..read carefully people. Thanks
  • vindog

    Posts: 1440

    Oct 03, 2008 10:39 PM GMT
    maverickcj_ca said
    Gemini said
    maverickcj_ca said
    MARRIAGE DOES NOT MEAN EQUALITY. DON'T GET STUCK ON A F***ING LABEL.

    WE CAN HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS W/OUT HAVING TO GET MARRIED, PLUS,. WHY THE F*** WOULD SOMEONE WANT TO GET MARRIED IF THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OPEN RELATIONSHIP???????????


    It may come as a shock to you, but not every gay person has or wants an open relationship.


    Did I say EVERY gay wants to have an open relationship???? Are people not getting my point? Sigh..I'll explain again....


    I NEVER said that EVERY gay wants to have an open relationship, that was a dumb assumption. My point was that so many guys have taken the whole marriage thing to a "make it or break it" point when it comes to voting for Obama. Some are in open relationships. While I do not question their love for each other, it is hard for me to grasp the whole concept of people being in open relationships and wanting to get married. To me marriage is about MONOGAMY and commitment. I'd like to think of of it as a "traditional" marriage without the whole "man and woman" thing..So there you have it..Ask for clarification before jumping to conclusions. Thanks.


    I don't think man/woman always means monogamy either. If your belief is that marriage=monogamy, then great. But not EVERYONE'S is that way.


  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14310

    Oct 03, 2008 11:05 PM GMT
    Hopefully when election day rolls around the proposition to ban gay marriage in California will end up being rejected by a mass majority of California voters. It would be great to see majority popular support for gay marriage at the polls. This would deal a damaging defeat to the religious right and make these narrow-minded, bible thumping screwballs think twice before pushing for a referendum based on ignorance and hatred.
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    Oct 03, 2008 11:34 PM GMT
    Arizona and Florida still need help. It seems like they're getting sacrificed for the larger state.
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    Oct 04, 2008 1:14 AM GMT
    atlnvmasc said
    maverickcj_ca said
    Gemini said
    maverickcj_ca said


    I don't think man/woman always means monogamy either. If your belief is that marriage=monogamy, then great. But not EVERYONE'S is that way.




    I'm getting pissed at you guys putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said that monogamy is exclusive to straight couples. Did I say that anywhere? Hmmmm no...

    I personally don't believe in open relationships and such..and I do think that marriage=monogamy..so sorry if I have an opinion. Geesh.
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    Oct 04, 2008 1:46 AM GMT
    Do we just keeping taking it? Keep crawling on our knees at the mercy of liberal straights and all straights in general that sit around and decide what kinds of lives and rights we can have - we, as "free" human beings? Are we not like curious zoo animals with a handful of people rallying on our behalf for some extra space and better quarters? It just makes my skin crawl to watch these people, left or right, debate what kind of life I/we am able to lead. As the planet dies, they sit bickering, with serious, stern, concerned looks on their smug faces about whether or not to give me a piece of paper that guarantees me equal rights based on the beliefs in their illusionary/hallucinatory God figure.

    Not sure what power we really have? I read some years ago that gays economic power was so very important that a well oragnized gay boycott of everything non essential (save gay businesses and organizations) could bring the country/economy to its knees. Sure, some of us might lose jobs, but as they say when they keep pushing these wars...freedom is not free.

  • TallGWMvballe...

    Posts: 1925

    Oct 15, 2008 4:36 PM GMT
    Last night I went to a screening of "Saving Marriage" which is the true story of the Massachusetts fight to save marriage equality.

    What they did there was to STOP it from going to a popular vote but here in California it IS on the ballot so we need to do everything we can to stop Prop 8 which will take away our rights.

    At the documentary screening the filmmakers and an Activist from the No on 8 group pointed out that even if you have no intention to ever marry, keeping it legal changes how the world at large sees us (gay and lesbians) and gives young people the perspective that there IS chance for them to have what we see as a legitimate relationship just like our parents and others around us.

    PLEASE help by talking to friends and family, donating time and/or money
    to www.noonprop8.com

    Thank you.
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    Oct 15, 2008 4:46 PM GMT
    Squarejaw saidNo where in the US is there a civil union that provides the same rights as marriage. No where.


    Say that over and over and over again. Civil unions are less than marriage, conveying less benefits and less protections to the couple.

    I am happy when civil unions are approved, when that's the best we can do, half a loaf being better than none. But our goal must continue to be full marriage.

    And every civil union law approved I see as full marriage equality about to be approved next, the foot-in-the-door approach, as Americans get used to the idea. But where we can make gay marriage happen now, we shouldn't shy away from going for it.
  • vindog

    Posts: 1440

    Oct 15, 2008 7:00 PM GMT
    maverickcj_ca said
    atlnvmasc said
    maverickcj_ca said
    Gemini said
    maverickcj_ca said


    I don't think man/woman always means monogamy either. If your belief is that marriage=monogamy, then great. But not EVERYONE'S is that way.




    I'm getting pissed at you guys putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said that monogamy is exclusive to straight couples. Did I say that anywhere? Hmmmm no...

    I personally don't believe in open relationships and such..and I do think that marriage=monogamy..so sorry if I have an opinion. Geesh.


    No its just that I respect your right to CHOOSE to have monogamy in marriage and you respect mine right to CHOOSE to not have it....or have it, depeding on what works for my relationship.

    Which is the same reason I believe in legal prostitution, drugs, abortion, guns, gambling, concentual polygamy and the like. Even though I don't need the right to most of these, I believe in every person's right to engage/use them.

    I also believe LAST CALL for alcohol sales (bar or store) is a crock of shit. Thanks for telling me I'm not adult enough to buy a beer at 4am!