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Vice President Debate.
MikemikeMike Posts: 1090
Oct 03, 2008 1:24 AM GMT
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Your thoughts-

So far Palin looks stronger. Obama means higher taxes for all!!! She is better liked in her home state. Latinos loved Hilary but hate Obama. He has done nothing except harm their small business.

your thoughts:
Caslon8000 Posts: 8100
Oct 03, 2008 1:28 AM GMT
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Palin: "toxic mess on Main St that is affecting Wall St" .... WTF????
MikemikeMike Posts: 1090
Oct 03, 2008 1:33 AM GMT
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Caslon7000 saidPalin: "toxic mess on Main St that is affecting Wall St" .... WTF????


The overtaxation on small business and the junk mortgages allowed during the clinton admin. that allowed people to get loans that now increased to amounts they can't afford!!

My god biden is sweating bullets and look at the phony smile. Couldn't trust him as far as u could throw him...right outta the white house!
Red_Vespa Posts: 1525
Oct 03, 2008 1:35 AM GMT
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MikemikeMike said Latinos loved Hilary but hate Obama. He has done nothing except harm their small business.

your thoughts:


Please explain how Obama has hurt small Latino businesses during a Republican Administration that has controlled national fiscal policy for the last 8 years, of which the first 6 years saw total Republican control of Congress.

Please name the specific Obama acts that have hurt this group.
fluxu8 Posts: 367
Oct 03, 2008 1:36 AM GMT
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well i suppose that if a person gets into people who can only speak in "bumper stickers" and that's about it...then I suppose she would make sense to them. Personally, I don't think she has anything at all to bring to the table. Sorry.
Red_Vespa Posts: 1525
Oct 03, 2008 1:38 AM GMT
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This is so bogus. MikemikeMike sounds like a Fox News reporter. Maybe he's reading from the pre-written McCain press releases that tell us what a brilliant job Palin did, before she opened her mouth.
Caslon8000 Posts: 8100
Oct 03, 2008 1:41 AM GMT
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neither side supports gay marriage. hmmmm...I believe her. I dont believe him. I think if the Dems thought it would not lose them too many votes, they would support gay marriage.
MikemikeMike Posts: 1090
Oct 03, 2008 1:41 AM GMT
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Red exactly!! He has done nothing to help them. That is their plea! He will tax then right out of any chance of the American dream.
allgoodinhwoo... Posts: 224
Oct 03, 2008 1:42 AM GMT
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Why the hell can't she pronounce Iraq properly? It keeps coming out of her mouth as EYE-rack.

Did she go to the Bush "Nucular" School of Pronunciation?
MikemikeMike Posts: 1090
Oct 03, 2008 1:47 AM GMT
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Caslon7000 saidneither side supports gay marriage. hmmmm...I believe her. I dont believe him. I think if the Dems thought it would not lose them too many votes, they would support gay marriage.


more proof in your opinion. Biden is a liar. Not a fox news man, but close. He is scrambling, sweating cheshire cat smiling and I like it. Calson I'm sure u have a cat face for biden.
allgoodinhwoo... Posts: 224
Oct 03, 2008 1:50 AM GMT
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DING DING DING

Did she go to the Bush "Nucular" School of Pronunciation?

Yep, she pronounces the word "nuclear" the same way the cowboy in the White House does.

It's all soundbites from Palin and no substance.
EricLA Posts: 1165
Oct 03, 2008 1:52 AM GMT
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Mike, you're effen kidding me, right? This woman will be a heartbeat away from the presidency. She is untried and over her head on national issues. She has been prepped appropriately for this debate, but if she became president, which is EXTREMELY possible given McCain would be the OLDEST man elected to the position, would be devastating. She is not what we need right now.
matt45710 Posts: 729
Oct 03, 2008 1:53 AM GMT
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I just wish that Palin would answer Ifill's question more than 50% of the time. Usually she's saying I don't want to answer than but go to another question.
Red_Vespa Posts: 1525
Oct 03, 2008 1:53 AM GMT
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MikemikeMike saidRed exactly!! He has done nothing to help them. That is there plea!


I see. So something isn't done, that that you think should have been done (I still haven't heard the specific legislative initiatives), and only 1 Senator in the US Senate is responsible? Only 1 Senator who could have done something? Not the Republican leadership, that set the agenda for 6 years, just this 1 guy in the minority party?

What about the Administration, which sets national fiscal policy, through the US Treasury? This is such an example of illogical spin, revealing so little knowledge of how the US government operates, that I realize I'm wasting my time trying to debate with someone who knows virtually none of the relevant facts.
sfinboston Posts: 252
Oct 03, 2008 1:55 AM GMT
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Palin is doing better than I thought, but she still is not ready to lead American people.

She does not support gay families...she is nothing short of a Bitch...the C word comes to mind, but wont say it. I would prefer to see her working on a street corner.
SciFi_TriGuy Posts: 62
Oct 03, 2008 1:58 AM GMT
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She's doing well. Notice she is looking at the camera talking to the viewer. The other candidates haven't been doing that. It's her strength to connect with people, and I bet she is connecting with the average viewer. They don't care whether she answers the exact question posed, they want to know whether to trust her.
Atlazeia Posts: 609
Oct 03, 2008 1:59 AM GMT
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My thoughts on the debate?

*cough*REHEARSED*cough*

A bunch of big, long-winded speeches about their respective parties and attacking each other. Same old, same old.
hoosierladdy Posts: 47
Oct 03, 2008 2:05 AM GMT
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I enjoyed the reference to "Barack and Senator O'Biden". I also appreciate her ability to cut taxes for a town of 9000 people while mayor. gives me every confidence in the world that she can handle the economy when Senator O'McCain goes down.
jc_online Posts: 317
Oct 03, 2008 2:07 AM GMT
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I'm not watching it; but listening to it on the radio instead. Although I believe in Obama/Biden and don't believe much I hear from McCain/Palin, I think from an auditory standpoint, they're about even. She sounds somewhat informed, but I still don't believe her.

Some day I hope to vote for a presidential candidate that I really want instead of voting against the team I'd rather not have. Wishin' & hopin' and thinkin' and groanin'...
Caslon8000 Posts: 8100
Oct 03, 2008 2:09 AM GMT
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She sounds like she is saying "blender" when she is trying "blunder."

She sounds good...but she is mouthing old Republican blather

For example, she mouthes the old Republican blather of "get gov't out of the way," yet the people are not seeing that today with the meltdown on Wall St.
hoosierladdy Posts: 47
Oct 03, 2008 2:12 AM GMT
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Doggone it, isn't she just the folksiest little thing ?????
auryn Posts: 1606
Oct 03, 2008 2:13 AM GMT
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She's doing exactly as I expected; very well with factual inaccuracies. She's doing well, but still full of shit.
SciFi_TriGuy Posts: 62
Oct 03, 2008 2:13 AM GMT
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Bless her heart!
jc_online Posts: 317
Oct 03, 2008 2:14 AM GMT
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OK, I'm done. She pissed me off with her "Oh Joe, there you goo agin with you're lookin' back to the bush administration..." Her condescending tone (or anyone's) does not appeal to me!

Of course I made up my mind when I heard that McCain wants to ad nuc-lee-ur power plants in the US. NO MORE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS!!!!! Go for wind and sun generated power!
justinmiami Posts: 93
Oct 03, 2008 2:15 AM GMT
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fluxu8 said Personally, I don't think she has anything at all to bring to the table. Sorry.


Sure she does...dinner!
justinmiami Posts: 93
Oct 03, 2008 2:18 AM GMT
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matt45710 saidI just wish that Palin would answer Ifill's question more than 50% of the time. Usually she's saying I don't want to answer than but go to another question.


Yeah i noticed that too.
friendormate Posts: 149
Oct 03, 2008 2:20 AM GMT
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Atlazeia saidMy thoughts on the debate?

*cough*REHEARSED*cough*

A bunch of big, long-winded speeches about their respective parties and attacking each other. Same old, same old.


My feelings as well from the little I watched.

As far as Obama and the latin vote, I heard he was doing very well to the surprise of many. The polls show him gaining 60 to 70% of their support.
Caslon8000 Posts: 8100
Oct 03, 2008 2:22 AM GMT
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Biden just teared up....good or bad?
NNJfitandbi Posts: 1260
Oct 03, 2008 2:23 AM GMT
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Palin on McCain: "He is the main that we need to leave."

Ooooooooops!!!
SciFi_TriGuy Posts: 62
Oct 03, 2008 2:24 AM GMT
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That's good for him to show some emotion. All dads feel that for their families.

He looks and sounds like he's getting a little aggravated.....
auryn Posts: 1606
Oct 03, 2008 2:25 AM GMT
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Biden just took off his earrings and nails. He's ready to catfight. Don't go after his record with being a single father with kids. The vasoline is on his face and he's throwing down now.

ClicheMemberN... Posts: 34
Oct 03, 2008 2:25 AM GMT
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john mccain was not a maverick......bitch!
Hidden/Deleted Member
Oct 03, 2008 2:25 AM GMT
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I'm enjoying this debate on the debate.

I'm in the US for a few days and listening in on the radio to the debate. Friends of mine are curious as to why McCain chose Palin as she seems entertaining but not like a statesperson. Outside of the US there is not an understanding of the "folksy" personality that has become popular in political leadership in the US probably since Reagan.

I have been listening for specifics (ideas, plans, strategies) of what the two are saying. Palin does say Maverick a great deal, and she says other buzz words. It does "seem" that there are more specifics coming from Biden than from her. I guess the analysis afterwards will highlight this. It will be curious to hear what people say.
onejock Posts: 117
Oct 03, 2008 2:26 AM GMT
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palin looks stronger? to who, junior high students? she's in over her head, and the soundbites she rehearsed just aren't cutting it.
Red_Vespa Posts: 1525
Oct 03, 2008 2:26 AM GMT
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Caslon7000 said

For example, she mouthes the old Republican blather of "get gov't out of the way," yet the people are not seeing that today with the meltdown on Wall St.


Oh, you mean the Bush government, that has been the most intrusive into private lives & liberties in history, the most abusive and most expensive on record? Sure, I'd vote to get THAT government out of the way.

And Republican John McSame will do that, who voted for every draconian Bush measure sent to Congress? This all becomes so surrealistic after a while, that anyone with even a tiny brain would not see the Republican lies and distortions.

But then, these are the same people with whom we have to dispute that dinosaurs existed with humans, no more than 6000 years ago. And they might win, because thinking people get exhausted after a while, whereas moronic fanatics are like the Energizer Bunny -- they just keep going and going and going...
AMT87 Posts: 706
Oct 03, 2008 2:28 AM GMT
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MikemikeMike saidYour thoughts-

So far Palin looks stronger. Obama means higher taxes for all!!! She is better liked in her home state. Latinos loved Hilary but hate Obama. He has done nothing except harm their small business.

your thoughts:


As a governor, a mayor, an oil and gas regulator and a businessman I feel aptly qualified to agree with you some what.

auryn Posts: 1606
Oct 03, 2008 2:28 AM GMT
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Caslon7000 saidBiden just teared up....good or bad?


Big time good!!! Be a good wife and mother but don't piss off a single father.
MikeOnMain Posts: 504
Oct 03, 2008 2:33 AM GMT
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She speaks in slogans, and that accurately reflects her sophomoric understanding of the issues.

Her answer to the question on the role of the Vice President---all that bullshit about "flexibility"---was a snowjob. She doesn't have a clue. But she's very good at making nonsense sound like substance, probably because she can't recognize the difference.

Romney as a maverick?! There's a joke.

Hmmm. Getting government out of the way. Is that what happened after Katrina? Believing government is bad is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And Joe Sixpack? He been in the White House for eight years and he hasn't done a bit of good for the working class.

I'll admit, she did better than I expected.
ObsceneWish Posts: 3403
Oct 03, 2008 2:33 AM GMT
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Caslon7000 saidBiden just teared up....good or bad?

It helped Hillary.
BigSETXjock Posts: 391
Oct 03, 2008 2:34 AM GMT
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MikemikeMike saidHe will tax then right out of any chance of the American dream.


I'm OK with paying more taxes, especially if it means health care for all Americans.

LGWC Posts: 56
Oct 03, 2008 2:37 AM GMT
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Anyone else offset by all the Ronald Reagan quotes?
And the regurgitated ending of Sarah Palin?

Not saying Joe Biden did well, but those kind of scare me

Ronald Reagan's presidency ended sometime when I was just a few months old.
Let his policies die.
zeebyaboi Posts: 520
Oct 03, 2008 2:38 AM GMT
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MikemikeMike, what TV program were you watching? Because I sure think you got your channels mixed-up. I'm going to quote my own thread entry of a few minutes ago...

"Palin said that America is hated by dictators because we have wonderful freedoms for women and women's rights.

She also said that she wants to see (based on what others want) our government to get out of people's lives and privacies.

WTF? Both are refuted by her stances on removing a woman's right to choose and Gays rights to exist.

She claims that she made political appointments to her cabinet that were of all political parties and claims that in her friends and family there is great political and ideological diversity.

HAH! She lied outright!

She also made the mistake of attacking Biden personally by claiming that he, as a man, does not know what it's like to struggle with expenses and needs for your family around the kitchen table.

What a pandering mealy-mouthed liar!"
Trance24 Posts: 136
Oct 03, 2008 2:38 AM GMT
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Reagan's presidency ended after he got shot. Everything from there was all big government, big spending, and kill the soviet union. You'd almost think he blamed them somehow and made it his mission to destroy the enemy.

As for the debate.... eh.... neither did much more than insult or rain down on the other's main figure. Constantly not answering questions... and both against the redefinition of marriage.
BlkMuscleGent Posts: 387
Oct 03, 2008 2:39 AM GMT
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MikemikeMike said
Caslon7000 saidPalin: "toxic mess on Main St that is affecting Wall St" .... WTF????


The overtaxation on small business and the junk mortgages allowed during the clinton admin. that allowed people to get loans that now increased to amounts they can't afford!!

My god biden is sweating bullets and look at the phony smile. Couldn't trust him as far as u could throw him...right outta the white house!


You're just a lying, Palin-lovin' tart!

Biden isn't sweating. It's Palin who has a perma-smirk, not Biden.
friendormate Posts: 149
Oct 03, 2008 2:40 AM GMT
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I love the way she is going to fight for our freedom. Like our freedom to marry. (Well not ours but...) and to join the armed forces (well not us but....) and to adopt children (okay not us but....) and the right to a fair trial (but not if you're guilty before proven innocent which is how McCaine feels about Guantanamo prisoners)

Why do Republicans go on about freedom as they take it away. I find most European countries far freer than the US
BlkMuscleGent Posts: 387
Oct 03, 2008 2:41 AM GMT
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MikemikeMike saidYour thoughts-

So far Palin looks stronger. Obama means higher taxes for all!!! She is better liked in her home state. Latinos loved Hilary but hate Obama. He has done nothing except harm their small business.

your thoughts:


The Latinos who "hate" Obama probably hate him because he's black. They believe a white president would help them more. Get it right!
Hidden/Deleted Member
Oct 03, 2008 2:41 AM GMT
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She sounded so rehearsed..so calculated...That's all I'm going to say..I'm tired of discussing politics.
Jockbod48 Posts: 1529
Oct 03, 2008 2:42 AM GMT
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So Obama and Biden ARE NOT for gay marriage after all? What? I thought that is what some of you have been so extremely angry with the Republicans about! So NOW who are you for?
dowal Posts: 372
Oct 03, 2008 2:43 AM GMT
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Obama has always said he is not for gay marriage.
auryn Posts: 1606
Oct 03, 2008 2:44 AM GMT
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I loved what Biden said about his and Obama's issue with Gay Marriage: Leave it up to the faith of the people to determine what it should be called but give us the rights. She couldn't say that she agreed with that, Iffal had to tell her that she agreed.
MikemikeMike Posts: 1090
Oct 03, 2008 2:47 AM GMT
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EricLA saidMike, you're effen kidding me, right? This woman will be a heartbeat away from the presidency. She is untried and over her head on national issues. She has been prepped appropriately for this debate, but if she became president, which is EXTREMELY possible given McCain would be the OLDEST man elected to the position, would be devastating. She is not what we need right now.


If you truely feel this way, you can see why we cannot have Obama in as president. At least with McCain, who I don't think is perfect, is a better choice because he will keep this country safer.
friendormate Posts: 149
Oct 03, 2008 2:47 AM GMT
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Jockbod48 saidSo Obama and Biden ARE NOT for gay marriage after all? What? I thought that is what some of you have been so extremely angry with the Republicans about! So NOW who are you for?


He is for civil union and the repeal of the defense of marriage act. That goes miles further than most other politicians.

Obama's letter opposing same-sex marriage ban

The text of Illinois Sen. Barack Obama's letter to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club in San Francisco:

Dear Friends,

Thank you for the opportunity to welcome everyone to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club's Pride Breakfast and to congratulate you on continuing a legacy of success, stretching back thirty-six years. As one of the oldest and most influential LGBT organizations in the country, you have continually rallied to support Democratic candidates and causes, and have fought tirelessly to secure equal rights and opportunities for LGBT Americans in California and throughout the country.

As the Democratic nominee for President, I am proud to join with and support the LGBT community in an effort to set our nation on a course that recognizes LGBT Americans with full equality under the law. That is why I support extending fully equal rights and benefits to same sex couples under both state and federal law. That is why I support repealing the Defense of Marriage Act and the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy, and the passage of laws to protect LGBT Americans from hate crimes and employment discrimination. And that is why I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states.

For too long. issues of LGBT rights have been exploited by those seeking to divide us. It's time to move beyond polarization and live up to our founding promise of equality by treating all our citizens with dignity and respect. This is no less than a core issue about who we are as Democrats and as Americans.

Finally, I want to congratulate all of you who have shown your love for each other by getting married these last few weeks. My thanks again to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club for allowing me to be a part of today's celebration. I look forward to working with you in the coming months and years, and I wish you all continued success.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama
Caslon8000 Posts: 8100
Oct 03, 2008 2:48 AM GMT
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Jockbod48 saidSo Obama and Biden ARE NOT for gay marriage after all? What? I thought that is what some of you have been so extremely angry with the Republicans about! So NOW who are you for?

As i said above, I dont believe Biden...Dems are more pro-gay....Obama/Biden position is taken so as not to lose votes. Palin is sincere.
Triggerman Posts: 624
Oct 03, 2008 2:50 AM GMT
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What IS the correct pronunciation of Iraq? Don't we all pronounce things differerently depending on what region of the country we come from? Southerners pronounce things different from Northerners, Californians different from New Yorkers. Boston has it's own language let alone pronunciation. Is that really so important? I need Rosetta Stone CD's in parts of Texas. (no offense to Texas and Boston. Love them both.)

She was better than I expected. Biden was pretty darn good. I like him and barely agree on anything with him, but I like him. I would love to sit in a bar over a pitcher of beer with both Palin and Biden and have a spirited discussion. I think we would all end up shooting pool and listening to Tammy Wynette on the juke box and have a good evening.

Contrary to popular belief, I voted for Obama in the CA primaries. Not sure I will for President, but who knows. Let's see the next few debates....
auryn Posts: 1606
Oct 03, 2008 2:50 AM GMT
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Jockbod48 saidSo Obama and Biden ARE NOT for gay marriage after all? What? I thought that is what some of you have been so extremely angry with the Republicans about! So NOW who are you for?


You must not have seen the debate on Logo. Those of us that have paid attention have already known Barack's and Hillary's and Biden's position on Gay Marriage. Go and look for it. I believe it happened in March or April.
dowal Posts: 372
Oct 03, 2008 2:51 AM GMT
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It sounded very rehearsed on both sides. You could have made a drinking game out of the number of times Palin said "Maverick". On Biden's side, when his voice broke and was about to "cry", call me a cynic but I didn't really buy that.

Palin had expectations so low that all she had to do is not say something incredibly dumb, which I don't think she did. I do wonder, though, if she's going to get grilled for suggesting her ticket supports equal legal treatment for same-sex couples.

Edit: oh, and the whole "folksyness" was ridiculous! On both sides. Palin and her wiking and "heck-of-a-lot" and shoutouts, and then Biden with his "me too!" responses.
allgoodinhwoo... Posts: 224
Oct 03, 2008 2:53 AM GMT
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I can't stand the line that McCain will somehow keep this country safer. Does anyone even remotely believe that a Democratic president wants a 9/11 attack to happen again?!!

Bush's policies brought Al-Qaeda to Iraq. They weren't there prior to the US military invasion. The Republican platform panders to your fears -- and that's why they do it. It also trusts that people are dumb enough to believe that Iraq had something to do with 9/11 when it didn't.
zeebyaboi Posts: 520
Oct 03, 2008 2:54 AM GMT
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dowal said On Biden's side, when his voice broke and was about to "cry", call me a cynic but I didn't really buy that.


I watched that moment, and as a trained actor myself, I can tell you that Biden was NOT faking it. He's an emotional, temperamental man, and when she suggested that he didn't know, because he was male, what it's like to struggle to do the best things for your family, he was hurt and insulted. His reaction was very real.
Triggerman Posts: 624
Oct 03, 2008 2:55 AM GMT
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The Biden comment about not supporting Gay Marriage after he realed off 30 seconds of saying nobody should be treated differently and Obama/ Biden would not treat people differently on any issue a bit strange. He spent all that time saying that gay people should be treated exactly like straight people then did a 180 and said no, no gay marriage.

Did that seem strange to anyone else? Or at least a bit disconcerting?
TheGuyNextDoo... Posts: 328
Oct 03, 2008 2:57 AM GMT
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SciFi_TriGuy saidShe's doing well. Notice she is looking at the camera talking to the viewer. The other candidates haven't been doing that. It's her strength to connect with people, and I bet she is connecting with the average viewer. They don't care whether she answers the exact question posed, they want to know whether to trust her.


You're right... and guess what? I don't trust her. I want to trust her,,, but I don't. On the other hand, not only did I trust Joe Biden, but I did not have a fear for one second that he could lead our nation if tested one day. I found him much more Presidential of the two.
Triggerman Posts: 624
Oct 03, 2008 2:58 AM GMT
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I don't think Biden was faking it. He went through a horrible tragedy and he rarely talks about it. I don't think he wanted to bring it up and when he did, it hit him. It was about his first wife and kids. I will accept that that was an honest reaction.
mnjock2003 Posts: 374
Oct 03, 2008 2:58 AM GMT
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Triggerman saidThe Biden comment about not supporting Gay Marriage after he realed off 30 seconds of saying nobody should be treated differently and Obama/ Biden would not treat people differently on any issue a bit strange. He spent all that time saying that gay people should be treated exactly like straight people then did a 180 and said no, no gay marriage.

Did that seem strange to anyone else? Or at least a bit disconcerting?



It did. If felt like a punch in the gut. For a few minutes, I remembered I wasn't considered an equal citizen. I'm surprisingly pissed off about it.
All the energy by the LGBT community to support him and that is what we get?
It's like a cardboard birthday cake in the window of a bakery.
MikemikeMike Posts: 1090
Oct 03, 2008 3:00 AM GMT
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mplsguy1967 saidShe actually gave a shout-out? I can only imagine her meeting world leaders......


I guess she can because Obama gave a holla back.
BlkMuscleGent Posts: 387
Oct 03, 2008 3:01 AM GMT
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Triggerman saidWhat IS the correct pronunciation of Iraq? Don't we all pronounce things differerently depending on what region of the country we come from? Southerners pronounce things different from Northerners, Californians different from New Yorkers. Boston has it's own language let alone pronunciation. Is that really so important? I need Rosetta Stone CD's in parts of Texas. (no offense to Texas and Boston. Love them both.)

She was better than I expected. Biden was pretty darn good. I like him and barely agree on anything with him, but I like him. I would love to sit in a bar over a pitcher of beer with both Palin and Biden and have a spirited discussion. I think we would all end up shooting pool and listening to Tammy Wynette on the juke box and have a good evening.

Contrary to popular belief, I voted for Obama in the CA primaries. Not sure I will for President, but who knows. Let's see the next few debates....


The correct pronunciation for Iraq is eee-RAK--with a rolled "r", if you can swing it. How about "America"? Will uh-MAY-ree-ka, AY-mee-ruh-KA, or uh-MEE-rye-kah do? Absolutely not. The name of a nation--and its correct pronunciation--is no trivial matter. And I'm sure you'd have a quip or two if a high-ranking U.S. official habitually mispronounced the name of our beloved nation. All nations deserve equal respect. Palin should know better. But, unsurprisingly, she doesn't.

I am surprised, though, that you voted for Obama in the primaries.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Oct 03, 2008 3:02 AM GMT
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Biden has to say he againt gay marriage, look the fact is the closest we will get to gay marriage is with Obama not McShame.

This debate demonstrated the lack of strategy, and leadership palin brings to the table. She didn't answer the questions, she didn't have any facts or strategy, and quite frankly many times she sounded like a dumb hick who was incoherent and didn't make any sense. If we took this down textually we would find many run on sentences, and grammatical errors and probably spelling errors.
TheGuyNextDoo... Posts: 328
Oct 03, 2008 3:04 AM GMT
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Quote - NNJfitandbi said - Palin on McCain: "He is the main that we need to leave.
Ooooooooops!!!


Gotta Admit,,, I did Laugh Out LOUD over that one...
Being in Texas, she did get a "Bless her heart" from my mouth... followed by a another big laugh and a No she dieent !
mnjock2003 Posts: 374
Oct 03, 2008 3:06 AM GMT
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hippie4lyfe saidBiden has to say he againt gay marriage, look the fact is the closest we will get to gay marriage is with Obama not McShame.



Well, the days of that being good enough are over. Fuck both of them and their ideas that we are less than anyone else. How many years have we been taking the best we can get instead of what is actually fair?
Hidden/Deleted Member
Oct 03, 2008 3:07 AM GMT
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dowal saidObama has always said he is not for gay marriage.


I don't really care what they label it as, as long as it extends the same benefits that "traditional" marriage does to straight couples. I lived in New Zealand with my ex and while they don't have gay "marriage" over there, they do have civil/ common law unions. I was able to get a work visa and we had the same rights and benefits as straight couples.

Obama may not support gay "marriage" but someone else posted a comment and a letter where Obama explains his position. I don't care what they call it or label it as as long as I am considered an equal. I hope this makes sense.
jc_online Posts: 317
Oct 03, 2008 3:08 AM GMT
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I think the the debate was double-plus-good. And both agreed that the current administration is double-plus-un-good. How 'bout this brave new world? Shaddows (or maybe ghosts) of Aldous Huxley and George Orwell...

And did Gov. Palin RELLY tell Gwen "Bless Your Heart?" after the debate closed and her mic was still on? I think I've heard that in the south when someone really means,"Go Fuck yourself"!?!
coolarmydude Posts: 1072
Oct 03, 2008 3:10 AM GMT
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I thought Palin held her own.

I just wish Biden would have coined GREEN BABY GREEN! after mentioning "Drill Baby Drill" as the energy mantra of the Republicans. What a missed opportunity. Obama/Biden need those buzz phrases/words that resonate with the Independents.


Has anyone noticed that after Biden's most passionate part of the debate, about Israel, he could be heard on the microphone of taking a deep breath to calm down again?

When Palin asked Biden if she could call him Joe at the beginning, I was thinking that she would use his name for some catchphrase. Of course, about 70-80 minutes into the debate she said, "Say it ain't so, Joe."

...I knew it...
wrerick Posts: 877
Oct 03, 2008 3:10 AM GMT
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Both did well. I think Biden was a bit better -- and in connecting with people as well, and particularly in sticking his points. Palin was good but besides winks she really didn't stick herself out to the people.

But we'll see what people think.
Colbert_Natio... Posts: 468
Oct 03, 2008 3:10 AM GMT
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Palin did well. She held her ground and was able to riff nicely off of Biden's much more expansive and well-informed answers. She had some nice church-lady-esque snarky remarks, but in general showed herself to be the intellectual/philosophical lightweight she is.

As mayor of a very, very small, remote red-state Alaskan town I'm sure she's just fine. But Vice President (one 72 year old's heartbeat away from President!) of the United States of America? Leader of the free world?
I got to say --

HELL F*CKING NO!!!


Oh, parenthetically, here are Obama and McCain's tax plans in a side-by-side comparison for anyone who's curious.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/
dowal Posts: 372
Oct 03, 2008 3:12 AM GMT
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Triggerman saidThe Biden comment about not supporting Gay Marriage after he realed off 30 seconds of saying nobody should be treated differently and Obama/ Biden would not treat people differently on any issue a bit strange. He spent all that time saying that gay people should be treated exactly like straight people then did a 180 and said no, no gay marriage.

Did that seem strange to anyone else? Or at least a bit disconcerting?


Well, it might just be semantics, but the way Biden was trying to explain his position, it did not contradict his statements on equality.

When he realed off 30 seconds, he was talking in terms of equality under the law and he brought examples like visitation rights etc. When he was asked about "gay marriage", he said he would not force to expand its meaning to include same-sex couples. He said that was up to the people to decide.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Oct 03, 2008 3:14 AM GMT
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As a Repubilcan, I would like to hear some feedback from you guys about Obama/Biden being against gay marriage just like Republicans are. Biden clearly explained that in the debate tonight

So now what? Taking that issue off the table, why is the gay community so anti-Republican?

I agree with the Republicans, Obama and Biden. I think marriage should be between a man and a woman only. However gays should get all the rights as everyone else under "union" instead of marriage
mnjock2003 Posts: 374
Oct 03, 2008 3:14 AM GMT
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maverickcj_ca said
dowal saidObama has always said he is not for gay marriage.


I don't really care what they label it as, as long as it extends the same benefits that "traditional" marriage does to straight couples. I lived in New Zealand with my ex and while they don't have gay "marriage" over there, they do have civil/ common law unions. I was able to get a work visa and we had the same rights and benefits as straight couples.

Obama may not support gay "marriage" but someone else posted a comment and a letter where Obama explains his position. I don't care what they call it or label it as as long as I am considered an equal. I hope this makes sense.


Yeah, because if black marriage was called something different state to state that would be great and send a great message about equality. Are you really so quick to accept your status as a second class citizen because they are too fucking afraid to say that they know you are normal but they are afraid they will lose if they acknowledge their truth? pitiful.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072
Oct 03, 2008 3:14 AM GMT
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As much as I support gay marriage, it's probably best that gay marriage isn't an election issue as evident in 2004. I would rather a liar against gay marriage than a liar in support of it.
dfrourke Posts: 628
Oct 03, 2008 3:15 AM GMT
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I was ready for Senator Biden to mop up the floor with Governor Palin. That didn't happen. She did a fine job of 'debating'. [although not being able to ask questions of the other candidate is more like 'debate-lite']...

I just didn't hear a great deal of HOW from Governor Palin. I want to hear a plan. HOW to get us from here to there. It was lacking more in her responses than from Senator Biden.

- David
Colbert_Natio... Posts: 468
Oct 03, 2008 3:16 AM GMT
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dowal said
Triggerman saidThe Biden comment about not supporting Gay Marriage after he realed off 30 seconds of saying nobody should be treated differently and Obama/ Biden would not treat people differently on any issue a bit strange. He spent all that time saying that gay people should be treated exactly like straight people then did a 180 and said no, no gay marriage.

Did that seem strange to anyone else? Or at least a bit disconcerting?


Well, it might just be semantics, but the way Biden was trying to explain his position, it did not contradict his statements on equality.

When he realed off 30 seconds, he was talking in terms of equality under the law and he brought examples like visitation rights etc. When he was asked about "gay marriage", he said he would not force to expand its meaning to include same-sex couples. He said that was up to the people to decide.


I took all of that to mean that Biden wasn't about to try to force religious faiths to bestow marriage sacrements for gays if it was against their tenets, but that it's not the government's business to discriminate against it's gay constituents.
So, NO, you're not going to have a gay Catholic wedding, BUT you will have all legal rights.
Is that about right?
zeebyaboi Posts: 520
Oct 03, 2008 3:17 AM GMT
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Did anyone notice how she tried to slip in how she has big-time political experience by saying she's the governor of one of the largest U.S. states? Yeah, right. Large in landmass, tiny in population. What a spin. I almost got dizzy on that one!
coolarmydude Posts: 1072
Oct 03, 2008 3:17 AM GMT
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dfrourke said, "I just didn't hear a great deal of HOW from Governor Palin. I want to hear a plan. HOW to get us from here to there. It was lacking more in her responses than from Senator Biden.

- David "


Yep. Biden was on point when sticking it to Palin about climate change causes when she was saying that she didn't want to get into blaming things and just getting on to solutions. Biden then retorted that you can't create a solution without correctly identifying a problem.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072
Oct 03, 2008 3:18 AM GMT
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zeebyaboi said, "Did anyone notice how she tried to slip in how she has big-time political experience by saying she's the governor of one of the largest U.S. states? Yeah, right. Large in landmass, tiny in population. What a spin. I almost got dizzy on that one!"


I noticed that.
Trocks797 Posts: 221
Oct 03, 2008 3:18 AM GMT
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Im not a political person, so all i can say is Joe Biden looks terrible on HD.
Triggerman Posts: 624
Oct 03, 2008 3:19 AM GMT
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I like Biden for the same reason I liked McCain, circa 2000. They both get hammered for miss-speaking, but I think that is a sign that they are both fairly honest and not scripted, as much as any politician can be not scripted.

I think the 2008 McCain is MORE scripted than he used to be, but I believe that once the pressure of the campaign is over, when he is in charge of his party, that will be less so. Let's face it, all candidates say what they need to say during an election. It sucks but it is true. Both sides.

But I truly feel that once he is not under the yoke of getting conservative votes, he will be the McCain he always has been. A moderate conservative.
Not that I like it all the time. I think McCain-Feingold has been a disaster ( Feingold is a Demo for those that do not know or follow politics). But you take the good with the bad.

Will America end if Obama is elected? No. I doubt it. Obama/ Reid/ Pelosi in charge of 2/3 of government scares me. Deeply. But will it be a disaster? No. We have been around for a long time and our fundamental American philosophy will survive. Just try not to get "rich" for a few years or you will be a target. Stay middle class and things will work out.
jc_online Posts: 317
Oct 03, 2008 3:19 AM GMT
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[quote]I agree with the Republicans, Obama and Biden. I think marriage should be between a man and a woman only. However gays should get all the rights as everyone else under "union" instead of marriage[/quote]

Thant's not agreeing with the Repubs; that's agreeing with the Democrats. Check the party platforms. I don't care what it is called at this point, just award the same rights to all people, including those who are single! Tax benefits, hospital visitations, etc. should not be connected to whether your coupled, tripled, or single any more than it should depend on your orientation. BUT that's another thread - let's save that for tomorrow.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072
Oct 03, 2008 3:19 AM GMT
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Trocks797 said, "Im not a political person, so all i can say is Joe Biden looks terrible on HD."



....except for his teeth. I liked his cheshire smile.
a1972guy Posts: 1961
Oct 03, 2008 3:19 AM GMT
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BlkMuscleGent said
MikemikeMike saidYour thoughts-

So far Palin looks stronger. Obama means higher taxes for all!!! She is better liked in her home state. Latinos loved Hilary but hate Obama. He has done nothing except harm their small business.

your thoughts:


The Latinos who "hate" Obama probably hate him because he's black. They believe a white president would help them more. Get it right!


Sad, but true!
Colbert_Natio... Posts: 468
Oct 03, 2008 3:20 AM GMT
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Trocks797 saidIm not a political person, so all i can say is Joe Biden looks terrible on HD.


Awww, Joe should have DEMANDED soft focus! SOFT FOCUS, DAMMIT!!! The future of the country's at stake!!!
dowal Posts: 372
Oct 03, 2008 3:20 AM GMT
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Colbert_Nation saidSo, NO, you're not going to have a gay Catholic wedding, BUT you will have all legal rights?
Is that about right?


Yes, that's what I understood from his statements tonight. Basically, equal treatment under the law and if whether you want to call it a "marriage" is up to the people.
Hidden/Deleted Member
Oct 03, 2008 3:22 AM GMT
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Come on guys..don't dance around the question. Biden clearly stated in the debate he and Obama are against gay marriage..now what?

Does this change the gay community's outlook on Republicans or makes you not vote for Obama now?
coolarmydude Posts: 1072
Oct 03, 2008 3:23 AM GMT
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jc_online said, I agree with the Republicans, Obama and Biden. I think marriage should be between a man and a woman only. However gays should get all the rights as everyone else under "union" instead of marriage[/quote]

Thant's not agreeing with the Repubs; that's agreeing with the Democrats. Check the party platforms. I don't care what it is called at this point, just award the same rights to all people, including those who are single! Tax benefits, hospital visitations, etc. should not be connected to whether your coupled, tripled, or single any more than it should depend on your orientation. BUT that's another thread - let's save that for tomorrow."



So with all that said, do we anull all heterosexual justice-of-the-peace MARRIAGES and the Las Vegas quickie "weddings" in order to separate the two as you describe it?


I think not because the precedent has been set already for centuries. No religion has ever been exclusive to the institution of marriage.
Trocks797 Posts: 221
Oct 03, 2008 3:23 AM GMT
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nycusa05 saidCome on guys..don't dance around the question. Biden clearly stated in the debate he and Obama are against gay marriage..now what?

Does this change the gay community's outlook on Republicans or makes you not vote for Obama now?


My consensus was that if you are gay, you have the best chances with a democratic president.....so I kinda expected Palin to say something along those lines.
TheGuyNextDoo... Posts: 328
Oct 03, 2008 3:23 AM GMT
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Jdunn1973 said
Triggerman saidThe Biden comment about not supporting Gay Marriage after he realed off 30 seconds of saying nobody should be treated differently and Obama/ Biden would not treat people differently on any issue a bit strange. He spent all that time saying that gay people should be treated exactly like straight people then did a 180 and said no, no gay marriage.

Did that seem strange to anyone else? Or at least a bit disconcerting?



It did. If felt like a punch in the gut. For a few minutes, I remembered I wasn't considered an equal citizen. I'm surprisingly pissed off about it.
All the energy by the LGBT community to support him and that is what we get?
It's like a cardboard birthday cake in the window of a bakery.


You're not alone my friend. I was so pumped earlier by Biden's answer only to be sucker punched in the stomach when he agreed with Palin about no gay marriage... I promptly had to go take a big shit...
sundayswim Posts: 131
Oct 03, 2008 3:24 AM GMT
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i love hearing the americans say it...but i believe the arabic pronounciation is "i-Raq" not "eye-rack!" .
i-Ran not "eye-ran!."

i am irate (eye-rate) you keep saying iraq (eye-rack).

pakistan in urdu is "pa" rhyms with (hah) "ki-st(h)aan" not "packy-stan". the (h) is a half h, not to be over pronounced. st(h)an= place

i believe urdu has 3 t's for the one in english..so of them have more of a h pronounciation.

taliban is prononced in south asia as taah li baan (like auto bahn) not tally ban.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072
Oct 03, 2008 3:24 AM GMT
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nycusa05 said, "Come on guys..don't dance around the question. Biden clearly stated in the debate he and Obama are against gay marriage..now what?

Does this change the gay community's outlook on Republicans or makes you not vote for Obama now?


The answer is NOOOOOOO! We will not let gay marriage become a wedge issue again. It's not to our benefit.
Caslon8000 Posts: 8100
Oct 03, 2008 3:25 AM GMT
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Candidates talk gay marriage

Sen. Biden and Gov. Palin answer questions about gay marriage and how they define traditional marriage.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/10/02/sot.debate.palin.biden.gay.marriage.cnn

It is interesting that Palin specifically mentions not opposing contracts being signed by gay couples....I presume she means like for buying a house. Here in Virginia a few years ago, the people amended the state constitution to prohibit unmarried couples from creating contracts that in anyway created a marriage-like legal basis in the relationship. Of course, none of this has been tested in the courts.
jc_online Posts: 317
Oct 03, 2008 3:25 AM GMT
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NYCUSA, as I said earlier in this thread, I don't get to vote for who I want to be president (that would be Congressman Kucinich (GO DENNIS!). I know that Obama and Biden don't believe in gay marriage, but I believe in the hope that their policies will move us in the right direction, so I do, will, and still support them for this election cycle. Clear enough?

After re-reading my post, I want to appologize if it sounded like I was in attack mode. If you read it that way, sorry. Unintentional impact of being fired-up.
dowal Posts: 372
Oct 03, 2008 3:27 AM GMT
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It's like you guys heard "against gay marriage" and everything Biden said before and after that statement was null and you ran with it.

He clearly stated, he is for complete equal treatment of same-sex couples under the law. What else were you expecting?
TheGuyNextDoo... Posts: 328
Oct 03, 2008 3:27 AM GMT
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jc_online saidI think the the debate was double-plus-good. And both agreed that the current administration is double-plus-un-good. How 'bout this brave new world? Shaddows (or maybe ghosts) of Aldous Huxley and George Orwell...

And did Gov. Palin RELLY tell Gwen "Bless Your Heart?" after the debate closed and her mic was still on? I think I've heard that in the south when someone really means,"Go Fuck yourself"!?!


Yep,,, you are right. Ask my friend JW. Bless your heart has many meanings,,, and sometimes "Go Fuck Yourself" is one of them....
Hidden/Deleted Member
Oct 03, 2008 3:27 AM GMT
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Dunno. I stopped watching the tv a short time after I heard a CNN anchorman say, with a straight face, "I ROCK".
pedroc954 Posts: 40
Oct 03, 2008 3:29 AM GMT
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Palin's experience as a beauty pagent contestent really paid off in tonight's debate: Scripted responses lacking substance and concrete solutions, blank deer-caught-in-the-headlights stare into the camera instead of balancing it between the moderator and audience, and that fake, cold smile. I just don't get what anyone see's in McCain (Bush carbon copy) and Palin (ex-town mayor population 3,000), Governor of Alaska (nothing to add about that), and more family and political scandals to last a lifetime....why would anyone invest 4 more years with that partnership? Answer: the same people that thought George Bush Sr. and Jr were good ideas....this country is unfortunately headed for broke and then we will see how vulnerable we really are to our competitors and enemies. Vote for our future - vote for change!
a1972guy Posts: 1961
Oct 03, 2008 3:31 AM GMT
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I'm a little disappointed! I was expecting Palin to fall FLAT on her face!!! DAMN her for not!! She, and mind you I am not in her favor, however compared to past interviews she did a better job. I did like how she continued to look in to the camera, that was very strong of her. I also enjoyed how she cared not to answer to certain questions yet would use that moment to share something else, why can she never answer the question asked, period!?!?!?! Biden started off a little shaky, wished he would not have referenced McCain as much though. Palin attempted too hard to be "just a regular American", she's not! Biden choking up over the single-parent issue, I'm on the fence about that reaction.
In regards to Gay Marriage, the fact that neither one of them/parties support the issue is pretty much something we'll have to live with, and it TOTALLY sucks!! I personally do not believe in marriage, however who is anyone to deny anyone the right to do be with who they want! Seriously like Jdunn (screen name change THANKS!) said, FUCK 'em BOTH!!!! One again, the lesser of the 2 evils!!!
coolarmydude