THE PALIN GOVENOR: Who Won The Debate?

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Oct 03, 2008 2:28 AM GMT
    She did better than I expected, but its clear who won...... The discussion on foreign policy clearly showed an incredible difference... it was amazing.

    I certainly can't imagine Palin as VP.
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    Oct 03, 2008 2:44 AM GMT
    Uh... I can't imagine Palin as Vice-President of the Sour Lake PTA...
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Oct 03, 2008 2:47 AM GMT
    In points it was close to call, but Biden impressed me by talking about the truths instead of the facts. Even Steven Gould would tell you that facts aren't always truths.
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    Oct 03, 2008 2:49 AM GMT
    I have to respectfully disagree with my very good friend here above me in creating this post - and I must say I thought Governor Palin did a very fine job and won the debate just now- not one gaffe - and her performance was stellar. Senator Biden did a credible job as well - and had command of his information and points he wanted to express too.

    As far as gay marriage - I'm still blown away with Biden's admission that neither he nor Obama are for this. I had incorrectly thought that they were for gay marriage- and I had thought this was a MAJOR point for some of the guys here on RJ. Now it seems both sides agree on gay rights. By the way - this is something I am for (not planning to get married any time soon) but it is one area where I am not in exact agreement with the Republicans - or, I guess, with the Democrats - so as far as gay rights - is it a draw?
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    Oct 03, 2008 2:55 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidBy the way - this is something I am for (not planning to get married any time soon) but it is one area where I am not in exact agreement with the Republicans - or, I guess, with the Democrats - so as far as gay rights - is it a draw?

    Absolutely not. Biden (and Obama) favor all the rights Biden listed a few times but are not yet in practice in most states. McCain and Palin would not lift one finger to extend equal rights (not counting marriage--we know they oppose that as well) on a Federal level. That's a pretty significant difference.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Oct 03, 2008 2:55 AM GMT
    I can see we need another phone call Gregg...

    jk icon_biggrin.gif
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    Oct 03, 2008 3:03 AM GMT
    Palin did very well. Was she better than Biden? I don't know. They both did well, and in that respect she may do better in the polls, but she did seem more manic, and was overall less focused than Biden, and probably often less connecting in making her points -- Biden did well in making well in emphasing language we could all understand and in making his point to those listening, while I don't know that Palin did as well, seemed a little more distant.
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    Oct 03, 2008 3:33 AM GMT
    I missed the first half hour, but I thought Palin held her own. As all of the pundits have been saying, the bar was set so low for Palin that she really didn't have to do much to shine. I don't agree with BigSETXjock, though -- that's exactly what Palin reminded me of: A PTA president. Her occasionally shrill sounding retorts just grated on me, and her Minnesota-like accent reminded me of the principal's secretary in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. :p

    Also, if anyone came across as condescending, it was Palin. I actually feared that Biden would be himself and go postal on her, so I think that he deserves a huge round of applause for his restraint.

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    Oct 03, 2008 3:47 AM GMT
    I knew Biden would consider Pakistan more important to focus on than Iran. Joe gets a ton of contributions from the Iranian American Political Action Committee. Of course he would try and divert attention from Iran. Joe is Iran's biggest suppporter in our Congress.

    The fact is, Iran is a major threat to western civilization, much more so than Pakistan. As countries go, Pakistan is a nebish state with little strategic importance. Iran is a gulf state that could cut off the world's oil supply from the entire region. Joe either wasn't thinking or is sticking up for Iran, I think it's the latter.

    Governor Palin may not be the most learned scholar on foreign affairs but anyone with a brain and without an agenda can see that Iran is the more serious of the two threats.
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    Oct 03, 2008 4:22 AM GMT
    John43620 said
    The fact is, Iran is a major threat to western civilization, much more so than Pakistan. As countries go, Pakistan is a nebish state with little strategic importance.


    Correct me if I'm wrong, as I very well could be, but isn't the military strongly pushing to go into Pakistan right now because of it's strategic importance?
  • MuslDrew

    Posts: 463

    Oct 03, 2008 4:23 AM GMT
    They both performed well. Biden was Biden. Gov. Palin provided her fellow party members a much needed sense of relief tonight.

    I am concerned about two things with Gov. Palin tonight. She chose to not answer questions asked, and stated her choice. Rules don't apply to her.
    She wants to expand the power of the vice presidency into the judicial branch if she is elected. I would have really liked her to answer the questions as asked.
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    Oct 03, 2008 4:32 AM GMT
    [quote]As far as gay marriage - I'm still blown away with Biden's admission that neither he nor Obama are for this. I had incorrectly thought that they were for gay marriage- and I had thought this was a MAJOR point for some of the guys here on RJ. Now it seems both sides agree on gay rights. By the way - this is something I am for (not planning to get married any time soon) but it is one area where I am not in exact agreement with the Republicans - or, I guess, with the Democrats - so as far as gay rights - is it a draw?[/quote]

    A while ago, the LOGO network and HRC invited all that were going to be running, (only the Democrats accepted, by the way for those interested.) They were interviewed about their stand on gay rights, among other topics, and none of them said they were pro- gay "marriage", but Obama and Clinton were very strong proponents of civil unions and strengthening rights of same sex partners. (as is Biden)
    Personally; I don't happen to care nearly as much about the title as I do about the rights. They can call it whatever they're comfortable with as long as it is recognized and entitles the couple to the same benefits and rights. Just my opinion, but I believe in picking battles. If it's the one word that's holding up the vote; change the word.
    From what I've seen and heard, (as in Palin all but rolling her eyes at the topic tonight), I don't believe the McCain ticket is interested in helping further our cause in the matter. Again, just my observation.
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    Oct 03, 2008 4:36 AM GMT
    John43620 saidI knew Biden would consider Pakistan more important to focus on than Iran. Joe gets a ton of contributions from the Iranian American Political Action Committee. Of course he would try and divert attention from Iran. Joe is Iran's biggest suppporter in our Congress.

    The fact is, Iran is a major threat to western civilization, much more so than Pakistan. As countries go, Pakistan is a nebish state with little strategic importance. Iran is a gulf state that could cut off the world's oil supply from the entire region. Joe either wasn't thinking or is sticking up for Iran, I think it's the latter.

    Governor Palin may not be the most learned scholar on foreign affairs but anyone with a brain and without an agenda can see that Iran is the more serious of the two threats.



    Here's the PERFECT example of Republican rhetoric combined with the art of distraction conceived by senior Republican officials which give orders to our fine men and women in the military who have no choice whatsoever other than to believe and obey.

    Iran (tho not a shining example of a country as evidenced by its socio-economic thinking and an apparent/severe lack of any substantial democrative values by any means whatsoever) is their sequel to Iraq: or so they'd have you believe in order to, once again, plunge the country into an unjust incursion and reap the benefits thereof. (When was the last time you heard about a suicide bombing is Iran?)

    However, Pakistan IS the breeding den: where anti-American and anti-Western thinking is cultivated to maturity in order to plant seeds of hate throughout the world that will ultimately blossom into destructive mechanisms - because Pakistan does not possess the "effective" ability to govern, investigate or police its geography and/or citizens - therefore, those seeds more easily take root and bloom in weak hearts and minds.

    Oh, and as for the VP Debate: Biden demonstrated sound, strong and experienced political thinking effectively answering the questions placed before him. Palin demonstrated the ability to recite memorized information that contained several misleading and false answers.

    B787
  • bobbyd918

    Posts: 14

    Oct 03, 2008 4:57 AM GMT
    I thought Biden's answers had the most substance and he could actually refer back to facts and voting records. To me, her claims were very superficial and transparent. I thought she came off as a used car salesman trying to sell us an old worn out car.

    I'm glad that they support equal gay rights. The religious marriage issue doesn't really bother me. I don't think the government should have ever been involved in religious marriages. With that said, I was blown away by Palin's new found "tolerance" for the gays. I don't think that will sit well with the base she is appealing to.
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    Oct 03, 2008 5:05 AM GMT
    Biden

    Why explain? Go to Foxnews, CNN, MSNBC and watch how all her supporters can't name one substantial reason Palin won, but boy they could talk about how beautiful she is and how full of spirit she bounces around.


    BTW: When did politics revolve around gay marriage for the gay republicans?

    Fucking hypocrites. So fast to throw your so call principles out the window.
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    Oct 03, 2008 5:06 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidI have to respectfully disagree with my very good friend here above me in creating this post - and I must say I thought Governor Palin did a very fine job and won the debate just now- not one gaffe - and her performance was stellar. Senator Biden did a credible job as well - and had command of his information and points he wanted to express too.

    As far as gay marriage - I'm still blown away with Biden's admission that neither he nor Obama are for this. I had incorrectly thought that they were for gay marriage- and I had thought this was a MAJOR point for some of the guys here on RJ. Now it seems both sides agree on gay rights. By the way - this is something I am for (not planning to get married any time soon) but it is one area where I am not in exact agreement with the Republicans - or, I guess, with the Democrats - so as far as gay rights - is it a draw?


    Not one gaffe?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/debate_fact_check

    Palin won?

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/debate.poll/index.html
  • MuslDrew

    Posts: 463

    Oct 03, 2008 5:09 AM GMT
    MSNBC poll: 52% Biden won
    38%Palin won

    CNN poll:51%Biden won
    36%Palin won

    CBS poll:46%Biden won
    21%Palin won
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    Oct 03, 2008 5:22 AM GMT
    MuslDrew saidMSNBC poll: 52% Biden won
    38%Palin won

    CNN poll:51%Biden won
    36%Palin won

    CBS poll:46%Biden won
    21%Palin won

    (Cross arms)

    Thats the liberal media! Where's FOXNEWS's poll?
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    Oct 03, 2008 5:23 AM GMT
    B787 said
    John43620 saidI Biden demonstrated sound, strong and experienced political thinking effectively answering the questions placed before him. Palin demonstrated the ability to recite memorized information that contained several misleading and false answers.



    Well said.

    Did anyone else want to gag when she evoked the word Maverick again and again? I actually cheered when Biden "took back the word" and ripped McCain to shreds on his Maverick qualifications. I also think it's kind of creepy to constantly refer to yourself as a Maverick. Umm ego much?
  • MuslDrew

    Posts: 463

    Oct 03, 2008 5:26 AM GMT
    ImTrying21 said
    MuslDrew saidMSNBC poll: 52% Biden won
    38%Palin won

    CNN poll:51%Biden won
    36%Palin won

    CBS poll:46%Biden won
    21%Palin won

    (Cross arms)

    Thats the liberal media! Where's FOXNEWS's poll?


    I looked for one, couldn't find it. Wonder why?
    Perhaps you can locate it.
    Couldn't find one on ABC either
  • bobbyd918

    Posts: 14

    Oct 03, 2008 5:27 AM GMT
    GaryJrDid anyone else want to gag when she evoked the word Maverick again and again? I actually cheered when Biden "took back the word" and ripped McCain to shreds on his Maverick qualifications. I also think it's kind of creepy to constantly refer to yourself as a Maverick. Umm ego much?


    Yes!! My cousin who is indifferent IM'd me during the debates and said she would go vote for Obama just to not hear her use the word "maverick" again. lol
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    Oct 03, 2008 5:31 AM GMT
    GaryJr said
    B787 said
    John43620 saidI Biden demonstrated sound, strong and experienced political thinking effectively answering the questions placed before him. Palin demonstrated the ability to recite memorized information that contained several misleading and false answers.



    Well said.

    Did anyone else want to gag when she evoked the word Maverick again and again? I actually cheered when Biden "took back the word" and ripped McCain to shreds on his Maverick qualifications. I also think it's kind of creepy to constantly refer to yourself as a Maverick. Umm ego much?


    That, and I couldn't understand half of the fucking things she said, not just because of her accent but because a lot of the time it looked like she was looking into the camera and reading unrelated subject taglines and slogans.

    Today is a sad day in presidential history if most of the republicans/conservatives thought Palin did fine in this debate.
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    Oct 03, 2008 5:34 AM GMT
    MuslDrew said
    ImTrying21 said
    MuslDrew saidMSNBC poll: 52% Biden won
    38%Palin won

    CNN poll:51%Biden won
    36%Palin won

    CBS poll:46%Biden won
    21%Palin won

    (Cross arms)

    Thats the liberal media! Where's FOXNEWS's poll?


    I looked for one, couldn't find it. Wonder why?
    Perhaps you can locate it.
    Couldn't find one on ABC either


    I can't find it either. I don't want to turn it to that channel though.
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    Oct 03, 2008 5:39 AM GMT
    I am most upset that she trivialized the Holocaust by needlessly invoking it to (attempt to) score politic points. This is extremely disrespectful.

    Secondly, she bizarrely suggested that Biden's wife would receive her recompense for being a teacher "in heaven" -- insensitive to say the least.

    I could list so many more..... She evaded question after question flarelessly and repeating trite cliches like "Maverick" and "Energy Producing State". Her empty rhetoric is exemplary of the sort of language derided in Orwell's great essay on "Politics and the English Language" --- would that she have read it! --- which devalues politics (contrary to her stated aims to win respect for politics).

    Biden did as expected. I am disappointed about his lack of support for Marriage Equality, but on all other points and especially his foreign policy (except for the debatable claim that Kosovo is a success) was carefully argued.
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    Oct 03, 2008 5:43 AM GMT
    Even a Fox News poll shows Biden won overwhelmingly. 61% Biden, 39% Palin, and the bloggers on the Fox News website are overwhelmingly in support of Biden, which is kind of surprising!