She did better than I expected, but its clear who won...... The discussion on foreign policy clearly showed an incredible difference... it was amazing.
In points it was close to call, but Biden impressed me by talking about the truths instead of the facts. Even Steven Gould would tell you that facts aren't always truths.
I have to respectfully disagree with my very good friend here above me in creating this post - and I must say I thought Governor Palin did a very fine job and won the debate just now- not one gaffe - and her performance was stellar. Senator Biden did a credible job as well - and had command of his information and points he wanted to express too.
As far as gay marriage - I'm still blown away with Biden's admission that neither he nor Obama are for this. I had incorrectly thought that they were for gay marriage- and I had thought this was a MAJOR point for some of the guys here on RJ. Now it seems both sides agree on gay rights. By the way - this is something I am for (not planning to get married any time soon) but it is one area where I am not in exact agreement with the Republicans - or, I guess, with the Democrats - so as far as gay rights - is it a draw?
Jockbod48 saidBy the way - this is something I am for (not planning to get married any time soon) but it is one area where I am not in exact agreement with the Republicans - or, I guess, with the Democrats - so as far as gay rights - is it a draw?
Absolutely not. Biden (and Obama) favor all the rights Biden listed a few times but are not yet in practice in most states. McCain and Palin would not lift one finger to extend equal rights (not counting marriage--we know they oppose that as well) on a Federal level. That's a pretty significant difference.
Palin did very well. Was she better than Biden? I don't know. They both did well, and in that respect she may do better in the polls, but she did seem more manic, and was overall less focused than Biden, and probably often less connecting in making her points -- Biden did well in making well in emphasing language we could all understand and in making his point to those listening, while I don't know that Palin did as well, seemed a little more distant.
I missed the first half hour, but I thought Palin held her own. As all of the pundits have been saying, the bar was set so low for Palin that she really didn't have to do much to shine. I don't agree with BigSETXjock, though -- that's exactly what Palin reminded me of: A PTA president. Her occasionally shrill sounding retorts just grated on me, and her Minnesota-like accent reminded me of the principal's secretary in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. :p
Also, if anyone came across as condescending, it was Palin. I actually feared that Biden would be himself and go postal on her, so I think that he deserves a huge round of applause for his restraint.
I knew Biden would consider Pakistan more important to focus on than Iran. Joe gets a ton of contributions from the Iranian American Political Action Committee. Of course he would try and divert attention from Iran. Joe is Iran's biggest suppporter in our Congress.
The fact is, Iran is a major threat to western civilization, much more so than Pakistan. As countries go, Pakistan is a nebish state with little strategic importance. Iran is a gulf state that could cut off the world's oil supply from the entire region. Joe either wasn't thinking or is sticking up for Iran, I think it's the latter.
Governor Palin may not be the most learned scholar on foreign affairs but anyone with a brain and without an agenda can see that Iran is the more serious of the two threats.
John43620 said The fact is, Iran is a major threat to western civilization, much more so than Pakistan. As countries go, Pakistan is a nebish state with little strategic importance.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I very well could be, but isn't the military strongly pushing to go into Pakistan right now because of it's strategic importance?
They both performed well. Biden was Biden. Gov. Palin provided her fellow party members a much needed sense of relief tonight.
I am concerned about two things with Gov. Palin tonight. She chose to not answer questions asked, and stated her choice. Rules don't apply to her. She wants to expand the power of the vice presidency into the judicial branch if she is elected. I would have really liked her to answer the questions as asked.
[quote]As far as gay marriage - I'm still blown away with Biden's admission that neither he nor Obama are for this. I had incorrectly thought that they were for gay marriage- and I had thought this was a MAJOR point for some of the guys here on RJ. Now it seems both sides agree on gay rights. By the way - this is something I am for (not planning to get married any time soon) but it is one area where I am not in exact agreement with the Republicans - or, I guess, with the Democrats - so as far as gay rights - is it a draw?[/quote]
A while ago, the LOGO network and HRC invited all that were going to be running, (only the Democrats accepted, by the way for those interested.) They were interviewed about their stand on gay rights, among other topics, and none of them said they were pro- gay "marriage", but Obama and Clinton were very strong proponents of civil unions and strengthening rights of same sex partners. (as is Biden) Personally; I don't happen to care nearly as much about the title as I do about the rights. They can call it whatever they're comfortable with as long as it is recognized and entitles the couple to the same benefits and rights. Just my opinion, but I believe in picking battles. If it's the one word that's holding up the vote; change the word. From what I've seen and heard, (as in Palin all but rolling her eyes at the topic tonight), I don't believe the McCain ticket is interested in helping further our cause in the matter. Again, just my observation.
John43620 saidI knew Biden would consider Pakistan more important to focus on than Iran. Joe gets a ton of contributions from the Iranian American Political Action Committee. Of course he would try and divert attention from Iran. Joe is Iran's biggest suppporter in our Congress.
The fact is, Iran is a major threat to western civilization, much more so than Pakistan. As countries go, Pakistan is a nebish state with little strategic importance. Iran is a gulf state that could cut off the world's oil supply from the entire region. Joe either wasn't thinking or is sticking up for Iran, I think it's the latter.
Governor Palin may not be the most learned scholar on foreign affairs but anyone with a brain and without an agenda can see that Iran is the more serious of the two threats.
Here's the PERFECT example of Republican rhetoric combined with the art of distraction conceived by senior Republican officials which give orders to our fine men and women in the military who have no choice whatsoever other than to believe and obey.
Iran (tho not a shining example of a country as evidenced by its socio-economic thinking and an apparent/severe lack of any substantial democrative values by any means whatsoever) is their sequel to Iraq: or so they'd have you believe in order to, once again, plunge the country into an unjust incursion and reap the benefits thereof. (When was the last time you heard about a suicide bombing is Iran?)
However, Pakistan IS the breeding den: where anti-American and anti-Western thinking is cultivated to maturity in order to plant seeds of hate throughout the world that will ultimately blossom into destructive mechanisms - because Pakistan does not possess the "effective" ability to govern, investigate or police its geography and/or citizens - therefore, those seeds more easily take root and bloom in weak hearts and minds.
Oh, and as for the VP Debate: Biden demonstrated sound, strong and experienced political thinking effectively answering the questions placed before him. Palin demonstrated the ability to recite memorized information that contained several misleading and false answers.
I thought Biden's answers had the most substance and he could actually refer back to facts and voting records. To me, her claims were very superficial and transparent. I thought she came off as a used car salesman trying to sell us an old worn out car.
I'm glad that they support equal gay rights. The religious marriage issue doesn't really bother me. I don't think the government should have ever been involved in religious marriages. With that said, I was blown away by Palin's new found "tolerance" for the gays. I don't think that will sit well with the base she is appealing to.
Why explain? Go to Foxnews, CNN, MSNBC and watch how all her supporters can't name one substantial reason Palin won, but boy they could talk about how beautiful she is and how full of spirit she bounces around.
BTW: When did politics revolve around gay marriage for the gay republicans?
Fucking hypocrites. So fast to throw your so call principles out the window.
Jockbod48 saidI have to respectfully disagree with my very good friend here above me in creating this post - and I must say I thought Governor Palin did a very fine job and won the debate just now- not one gaffe - and her performance was stellar. Senator Biden did a credible job as well - and had command of his information and points he wanted to express too.
As far as gay marriage - I'm still blown away with Biden's admission that neither he nor Obama are for this. I had incorrectly thought that they were for gay marriage- and I had thought this was a MAJOR point for some of the guys here on RJ. Now it seems both sides agree on gay rights. By the way - this is something I am for (not planning to get married any time soon) but it is one area where I am not in exact agreement with the Republicans - or, I guess, with the Democrats - so as far as gay rights - is it a draw?
John43620 saidI Biden demonstrated sound, strong and experienced political thinking effectively answering the questions placed before him. Palin demonstrated the ability to recite memorized information that contained several misleading and false answers.
Well said.
Did anyone else want to gag when she evoked the word Maverick again and again? I actually cheered when Biden "took back the word" and ripped McCain to shreds on his Maverick qualifications. I also think it's kind of creepy to constantly refer to yourself as a Maverick. Umm ego much?
GaryJrDid anyone else want to gag when she evoked the word Maverick again and again? I actually cheered when Biden "took back the word" and ripped McCain to shreds on his Maverick qualifications. I also think it's kind of creepy to constantly refer to yourself as a Maverick. Umm ego much?
Yes!! My cousin who is indifferent IM'd me during the debates and said she would go vote for Obama just to not hear her use the word "maverick" again. lol
John43620 saidI Biden demonstrated sound, strong and experienced political thinking effectively answering the questions placed before him. Palin demonstrated the ability to recite memorized information that contained several misleading and false answers.
Well said.
Did anyone else want to gag when she evoked the word Maverick again and again? I actually cheered when Biden "took back the word" and ripped McCain to shreds on his Maverick qualifications. I also think it's kind of creepy to constantly refer to yourself as a Maverick. Umm ego much?
That, and I couldn't understand half of the fucking things she said, not just because of her accent but because a lot of the time it looked like she was looking into the camera and reading unrelated subject taglines and slogans.
Today is a sad day in presidential history if most of the republicans/conservatives thought Palin did fine in this debate.
I am most upset that she trivialized the Holocaust by needlessly invoking it to (attempt to) score politic points. This is extremely disrespectful.
Secondly, she bizarrely suggested that Biden's wife would receive her recompense for being a teacher "in heaven" -- insensitive to say the least.
I could list so many more..... She evaded question after question flarelessly and repeating trite cliches like "Maverick" and "Energy Producing State". Her empty rhetoric is exemplary of the sort of language derided in Orwell's great essay on "Politics and the English Language" --- would that she have read it! --- which devalues politics (contrary to her stated aims to win respect for politics).
Biden did as expected. I am disappointed about his lack of support for Marriage Equality, but on all other points and especially his foreign policy (except for the debatable claim that Kosovo is a success) was carefully argued.
Even a Fox News poll shows Biden won overwhelmingly. 61% Biden, 39% Palin, and the bloggers on the Fox News website are overwhelmingly in support of Biden, which is kind of surprising!
Biden won hands down. Sarah avoided questions and rambled on more than actually answering the question at hand.
He played it cool. He didn't come off as the bully picking on the poor helpless woman.. I thought he might do that but he didn't. He let her make herself look foolish.
zeebyaboi saidEven a Fox News poll shows Biden won overwhelmingly. 61% Biden, 39% Palin
What source for the FOX poll?
I gotta say, before this debate, I could of almost give two shits about Palin. Now the woman scares me. She's like a hollow doll. A willing marionette justa grinnin.
zeebyaboi saidEven a Fox News poll shows Biden won overwhelmingly. 61% Biden, 39% Palin
What source for the FOX poll?
I gotta say, before this debate, I could of almost give two shits about Palin. Now the woman scares me. She's like a hollow doll. A willing marionette justa grinnin.
John43620 said The fact is, Iran is a major threat to western civilization, much more so than Pakistan. As countries go, Pakistan is a nebish state with little strategic importance.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I very well could be, but isn't the military strongly pushing to go into Pakistan right now because of it's strategic importance?
Can someone else try to reason with these people? Apparently Palin isn't the only one who is a programmed doll. The gay republicans seemed to be that way...reminds me of a Futurama episode where Mom has all the robots on earth revolt and she did so by pre-programming them and then using a remote control to activate the program...
Can someone else try to reason with these people? Apparently Palin isn't the only one who is a programmed doll. The gay republicans seemed to be that way...reminds me of a Futurama episode where Mom has all the robots on earth revolt and she did so by pre-programming them and then using a remote control to activate the program...
Jockbod48> I'm still blown away with Biden's admission that neither he nor Obama are for this. I had incorrectly thought that they were for gay marriage- and I had thought this was a MAJOR point for some of the guys here on RJ.
It's all in the way the question was asked. Sadly, in today's America, it's bad news for a politician to support gay marriage. But what if the question had been posed the other way: "Are you against gay marriage"? Palin would answer "Yes". Biden's answer would be "no" even if he'd hedge it in various ways (e.g. "if Congress sent up a bill supportive of gay marriage I wouldn't veto it").
The hard facts is that an Obama/Biden administration will not push but oppose things like DOMA. Perhaps more importantly, it is likely that Supreme Court nominees will likewise be supportive of such gay issues whereas McCain/Palin nominees will not (with their stance on abortion and gay rights being a litmus test for whether they are to be nominated).
bobbyd918> I was blown away by Palin's new found "tolerance" for the gays. I don't think that will sit well with the base she is appealing to.
They might view it as a tactical concession rather than her belief. Note how it was followed up with a lot of hot air but no promises. So she wouldn't prevent a person from visiting a gay partner in the hospital. Who in their right mind would... let alone would admit to it?
The sad reality, though, is that she is not running for hospital administrator. A better question might have been: will your administration support ENDA and other legislation to assure that others (e.g. that hospital administrator) will not be able to discriminate against gay people?
GaryJr> Did anyone else want to gag when she evoked the word Maverick again and again? I actually cheered when Biden "took back the word" and ripped McCain to shreds on his Maverick qualifications. I also think it's kind of creepy to constantly refer to yourself as a Maverick. Umm ego much?
Yep. Matt was gagging over and over about this.
Somewhat related, Palin chided BIden for looking back (at the record) instead of forward... yet she was constantly invoking McCain's alleged record as a maverick (and, gag, her own). Truth be told, McCain's not even running on his record (a "maverick reformer") but has modified his positions to suit the Republican right (a "reformed maverick").
ImTrying21> I couldn't understand half of the fucking things she said, not just because of her accent but because a lot of the time it looked like she was looking into the camera and reading unrelated subject taglines and slogans.
Yep. They were words strung together... but often we'd look at each other and say: what does that mean? I think Sean_85 used the right word: "ramble"
Can someone else try to reason with these people? Apparently Palin isn't the only one who is a programmed doll. The gay republicans seemed to be that way...reminds me of a Futurama episode where Mom has all the robots on earth revolt and she did so by pre-programming them and then using a remote control to activate the program...
Oh, I read some of it now..you mean curiousjock and co? Yeah...I tried not to go that route with him because I was VERY close to start personal attacks but I chose to ignore him.
It's hard to hear that Biden and Obama don't back gay marriage but I think that there just saying that. Truth is it would hurt them more then help them to say they were for it. I think once in power they would try to pass it... I don't believe there against it.
Watching it I decided there was no clear "winner". They both did a great job... both exceeded my expectations and overcame the problems people expected from them both. After watching it even the commentators on the news were saying the same type of comments.
So yeah... I think they both did great. Infact, I think I like Biden more than Obama, and Palin more than McCain now. haha!
The leader of the "nebbish state" (with nuclear weapons, increasing anti american sentiments and probably home to Bin Laden) had this to say about the VP hopeful:
I watched the debate from on the university campus here in Fairbanks, Alaska.The crowd was pretty solidly Obama for starters.
I thought she did a lot better than I thought she was going to do...like the Couric interview.
Afterwards, I thought Bidens answers were much more thought out and showed a greater command of the facts and what they actually meant.
I thought it was weird and untactful the way she brought up Bidens wife...I was not expecting Palin to be the one who brought up the family topic. I thought Bidens response to that was pretty good and showed the better grace.
MuslDrew saidShe chose to not answer questions asked, and stated her choice. Rules don't apply to her.
I am not concerned with that... if it was Clinton or some other well loved politician, people would have loved how that person was breaking the mold or something. haha! Its just easier to be critical when the person is under the microsope.
It's time to call a spade a spade when it comes to the dumbing down of America....
Palin's whole appeal ... at least what most say about her is that she's a lot like "me" She is middle America and not "elitist"
Excuse me but does that sound familiar somewhere? Didn't we just get that and hasn't it bitten us in the ass already .. Big Time?
When it comes to solving the problems we're facing I don't want someone who needs to play catch up I want the number one in his class I want the stand out The "elitist" ploy is a Rovian tactic used to label someone with a bumpersticker name Palin is NOT up to the task ... you know it and I know it and this debate in no way changed that It only reinforced this knowledge
John43620 said The fact is, Iran is a major threat to western civilization, much more so than Pakistan. As countries go, Pakistan is a nebish state with little strategic importance.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I very well could be, but isn't the military strongly pushing to go into Pakistan right now because of it's strategic importance?
And Pakistan has nukes and the means to use them.
And earler this week on the BBC they stated that every foiled terrorist plot (in the UK ) since 9/11 can be traced back to Pakistan - the same can't be said of Iran.
John43620 said, "The fact is, Iran is a major threat to western civilization, much more so than Pakistan. As countries go, Pakistan is a nebish state with little strategic importance. Iran is a gulf state that could cut off the world's oil supply from the entire region."
That's interesting, John. Since last year EVERYONE was saying that Pakistan is the most dangerous country in the world.
MuslDrew saidShe chose to not answer questions asked, and stated her choice. Rules don't apply to her.
I am not concerned with that... if it was Clinton or some other well loved politician, people would have loved how that person was breaking the mold or something. haha! Its just easier to be critical when the person is under the microsope.
Except she is already under investigation for possible abuse of power and she expressed a desire for more power if elected vice president. The debate was already tailored for her, not Biden. She still didn't want to play by the all the rules. She picks & chooses what applies to her.
Neither one of them won me over last night, however, I do believe Palin connected better with the "average Joe" (no pun intended) of the mid-west. She was much more personable when looking into the camera.
I think that there was no clear winner, but both achieved their goals.
Palin clearly outperformed the expectations most had for her, but her answers to me seemed scripted, and I found her stated goal of avoiding the questions and just "doing what [she] wanted to do" rather disrespectful to the spirit of the debate.
Biden kept his cool (he's known to come on hard) and didn't at all seem to be "picking on the girl," nonetheless I think he underestimated how well she would perform, and allowed her to control many of the questions. I would have liked to see him more aggressively challenge her claims.
Reading some of the reactions to Palin's performance last night, I think the Couric interviews might have benefited Palin! She set the bar so low that apparently all she had to do to was not be a complete failure to be called the winner.
No more disrespectful than the committee choosing a moderator who has a Pro-Obama book coming out.
How so? I didn't see the moderator wearing an "Obama '08" t-shirt. She didn't lob softballs at Biden and then ask Palin a challenging question. She didn't plug her book. I'd challenge you to suggest a moderator without any bias whatsoever, public or private.
What I saw, rather than a "maverick" in Palin's refusal to answer questions she didn't want to was her inability to speak to anything she didn't learn in her debate camp this past week at Johnny's compound in Arizona...
That comment is misdirected. The committee that chose the moderator had an equal number of Republicans on it. Gwen Ifill was likely selected because she moderated the vice presidential debate 4 years ago.
I think we could argue the fine points of this debate, who said what, who made misstatements, who evaded questions, who won, blah blah blah, and yet, at the end of the day I tend to feel like the power of Sarah Palin is undeniable. Say what you want about her, but she does have this knack for speaking to the "everyman and woman" --- bringing herself down to "Main Street" far more authentically, and thereby convincingly, than Biden could ever do -- and striking a chord with average Americans. This is not to be taken lightly. Americans are fed up...tired of business as usual...they don't trust either party really anymore because, frankly, both have failed dismally. Sarah Palin spoke directly to that sentiment, and I sense she may have been successful in winning far more people over last night than she turned away. Bottomline: That is all that really matters. Whether that will be enough to give McCain the boost he clearly needs right now with just 5 weeks to go is anyone's guess. Regardless, much of America is having a love affair with Sarah Palin, but it remains to be seen if that affection will be enough in the end.
Coolarmydude, As nuts as the Taliban and Al Qaida are, they can't hold a candle to Iran.
When it's national policy to cause Armagedden to usher in the messiah the "Mehdi" or the 12th Imam and they're working on building nukes, Iran is the most serious threat the world faces. Those people are nuttier than Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church but they run a country with a military. Even the IAEA says so. Joe Biden has been sticking up for Iran for years now. I don't want anyone with a pro-Iran agenda in the Whitehouse.
Jockbod48 saidI have to respectfully disagree with my very good friend here above me in creating this post - and I must say I thought Governor Palin did a very fine job and won the debate just now- not one gaffe - and her performance was stellar. Senator Biden did a credible job as well - and had command of his information and points he wanted to express too.
As far as gay marriage - I'm still blown away with Biden's admission that neither he nor Obama are for this. I had incorrectly thought that they were for gay marriage- and I had thought this was a MAJOR point for some of the guys here on RJ. Now it seems both sides agree on gay rights. By the way - this is something I am for (not planning to get married any time soon) but it is one area where I am not in exact agreement with the Republicans - or, I guess, with the Democrats - so as far as gay rights - is it a draw?
I has always been known that neither side favors gay "marriage" obama biden favor civil unions while according to The Palin Cunt she is willing to tolerate my existence on the planet
Palin did ok, though she clearly was out of her league and showed she really isnt qualified for the role of VP.
Looking forward to Palin being a footnote in history after Nov. 4th, when she goes back to Alaska to raise her 5 kids and take care of her unwed prego daughter.
Did everyone miss the one thing that made me realize that she was absolute bogus?
Looking into the camera, talking about how they were going to "help the middle class," she gets this smirk on her face that says "I find it funny what I'm saying, cuz people are actually going to believe that I want to help the middle class."
She just wants to be a rich, elite politician....and this is her way to do it.
GQjock saidIt's time to call a spade a spade when it comes to the dumbing down of America....
Palin's whole appeal ... at least what most say about her is that she's a lot like "me" She is middle America and not "elitist"
Excuse me but does that sound familiar somewhere? Didn't we just get that and hasn't it bitten us in the ass already .. Big Time?
When it comes to solving the problems we're facing I don't want someone who needs to play catch up I want the number one in his class I want the stand out The "elitist" ploy is a Rovian tactic used to label someone with a bumpersticker name Palin is NOT up to the task ... you know it and I know it and this debate in no way changed that It only reinforced this knowledge
The thing is she is not middle america, how many middle americans do you know with their own tanning bed?
And yes I want an elite president, wanting anything else is down right stupid
I think, once again, the big loser of the debate was Dubya Bush. Everyone seems to agree that there have been a lot of problems these past 8 years and that change is necessary.
But will McCain/Palin really produce change or are they just talking about it? See more below, looking at the role of the VP.
CuriousJockAZ> she does have this knack for speaking to the "everyman and woman" --- bringing herself down to "Main Street" far more authentically
It's so "authentic" that I'm not at all convinced that she's bringing herself "down" at all.
For example, other than stringing together catch-phrases, what does this mean?
PALIN: Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation.
Lots of mumbo-jumbo and no real substance as far as I can tell. A pedestrian answer no different from the average "soccer/hockey mom".
Compare to:
BIDEN: Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we've had probably in American history. The idea he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that's the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.
BIDEN: And the primary role of the vice president of the United States of America is to support the president of the United States of America, give that president his or her best judgment when sought, and as vice president, to preside over the Senate, only in a time when in fact there's a tie vote. The Constitution is explicit.
BIDEN: The only authority the vice president has from the legislative standpoint is the vote, only when there is a tie vote. He has no authority relative to the Congress. The idea he's part of the Legislative Branch is a bizarre notion invented by Cheney to aggrandize the power of a unitary executive and look where it has gotten us. It has been very dangerous.
John43620 saidCoolarmydude, As nuts as the Taliban and Al Qaida are, they can't hold a candle to Iran.
When it's national policy to cause Armagedden to usher in the messiah the "Mehdi" or the 12th Imam and they're working on building nukes, Iran is the most serious threat the world faces. Those people are nuttier than Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church but they run a country with a military. Even the IAEA says so. Joe Biden has been sticking up for Iran for years now. I don't want anyone with a pro-Iran agenda in the Whitehouse.
So builing nukes makes Iran more dangerous than Pakistan that HAS NUKES?
The fact of the matter is that all this debate proves for sarah palin is that she can recite scripted lines after spending two days sequestered at debate camp. you see that she doesnt answer the question she has a script to but rather says I want to talk about this issue instead. She is stupid, and the couric interviews and the gibson interview showed that to the world. She can't handle on the day to day and that is exactly what a Vice president would have to do. a person that looked halfway decent one day does not sit well as a VP for me.
atlnvmasc saidLooking into the camera, talking about how they were going to "help the middle class," she gets this smirk on her face that says "I find it funny what I'm saying, cuz people are actually going to believe that I want to help the middle class."
That is an interesting and very biased way to look at her smirk... ha! Definitely sounds like you are reading far into things in order to support your disliking her.
She is middle class, she came from middle class.... why would you not believe her wanting to help the middle class?
atlnvmasc saidLooking into the camera, talking about how they were going to "help the middle class," she gets this smirk on her face that says "I find it funny what I'm saying, cuz people are actually going to believe that I want to help the middle class."
That is an interesting and very biased way to look at her smirk... ha! Definitely sounds like you are reading far into things in order to support your disliking her.
She is middle class, she came from middle class.... why would you not believe her wanting to help the middle class?
Because she helped the middle class only a little in AK, but helped the oil industry a whole lot more?
Sure, maybe she wants to help the middle class, but she cannot. She's not smart, qualified, and has never worked in Washington. Was she going to replace the whole government with her enablers, just like that?
People...stop voting for so-called candidates who you think are just like you, because you are not qualified to lead this country.
Chungo44, Pakistan has shown remarkable restraint with their nukes. The Iranian government is a theolocracy and they have this weird idea that if they set off WW3, which they think they're supposed to, the messiah will come and make the world a Shia paradise. This is their government. Say what you will about Bush but no one is that nuts, except maybe Fred Phelps and his bunch of nutbuckets.
atlnvmasc saidLooking into the camera, talking about how they were going to "help the middle class," she gets this smirk on her face that says "I find it funny what I'm saying, cuz people are actually going to believe that I want to help the middle class."
That is an interesting and very biased way to look at her smirk... ha! Definitely sounds like you are reading far into things in order to support your disliking her.
She is middle class, she came from middle class.... why would you not believe her wanting to help the middle class?
For your question:
Because people like her, I have found, only seek to line their and their friend's pockets and lower everyone else's standard of living.
As far as my looking at her smirk.....See above, and body language tells way more about a person than what they say. This is why secret service agents can just watch someone talk and know if what they are saying is truthful or not, only by body language.
Not that I am a secret service agent, but that was so obvious.
I keep seeing the crafty liars insinuating there is no difference between Obama and McCain with regards to civil/gay rights ... Obama differentiates religious marriage and government sanctioned civil union/marriage. He simply does not believe that the government should be able to tell denominations what they have to accept marriage wise:
Legal rights for gays are conferred by state, not by church Q: You have said in previous debates that it is up to individual religious denominations to decide whether or not to recognize same-sex marriage. What place does the church have in government-sanctioned civil marriages?
A: It is my strong belief that the government has to treat all citizens equally. I don't think that the church should be making these determinations when it comes to legal rights conferred by the state. I do think that individual denominations have the right to make their own decisions as to whether they recognize same sex couples. My denomination, United Church of Christ, does. Other denominations may make a decision, and obviously, part of keeping a separation of churches and state is also to make sure that churches have the right to exercise their freedom of religion. Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007
Q: If you were back in the Illinois legislature where you served and the issue of civil marriage came before you, how would you have voted on that?
A: My view is that we should try to disentangle what has historically been the issue of the word "marriage," which has religious connotations to some people, from the civil rights that are given to couples, in terms of hospital visitation, in terms of whether or not they can transfer property or Social Security benefits and so forth. So it depends on how the bill would've come up. I would've supported and would continue to support a civil union that provides all the benefits that are available for a legally sanctioned marriage. And it is then, as I said, up to religious denominations to make a determination as to whether they want to recognize that as marriage or not. Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007
Let each denominations decide on recognizing gay marriage Q: The laws banning interracial marriage were ruled unconstitutional in 1967. What is the difference between a ban on interracial marriage and a ban on gay marriage?
A: We've got to make sure that everybody is equal under the law. And the civil unions that I proposed would be equivalent in terms of making sure that all the rights that are conferred by the state are equal for same-sex couples as well as for heterosexual couples. Now, with respect to marriage, it's my belief that it's up to the individual denominations to make a decision as to whether they want to recognize marriage or not. But in terms of, you know, the rights of people to transfer property, to have hospital visitation, all those critical civil rights that are conferred by our government, those should be equal. Source: 2007 YouTube Democratic Primary debate, Charleston SC Jul 23, 2007
I don't care what you call it as long as the rights are in place. Everything will fall into place once the civil rights are established. Also it should be noted that Obama opposes the CA prop 8 anti-gay measure, McCain supports it.
Obama has given constantly pro-gay stances, McCain sits in silence and in many cases opposition. Obama's PRO civil rights views dwarf McCain's
John43620 said, "Coolarmydude, As nuts as the Taliban and Al Qaida are, they can't hold a candle to Iran.
When it's national policy to cause Armagedden to usher in the messiah the "Mehdi" or the 12th Imam and they're working on building nukes, Iran is the most serious threat the world faces. Those people are nuttier than Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church but they run a country with a military. Even the IAEA says so. Joe Biden has been sticking up for Iran for years now. I don't want anyone with a pro-Iran agenda in the Whitehouse."
I disagree. Wasn't it 5 or so short years ago that Pakistan was on the verge of a nuclear holocaust with India? And now Pakistan's government is even more unstable than at that time. The best hope we have with a relatively "stable" Pakistan is that the military generals that control these nukes do not favor the Islamic extremists. On the other hand, with Iran, the country's society is considered progressive by Arab nation's standards and this society holds a very unfavorable support of their current regime. As crazy as their leader is, they are not at the cusp of a holocaust like Pakistan is.
Pakistan is finding itself between the infiltration of the Islamic extremist terrorists within its borders and India to its east, holding its breath.
GaryJrDid anyone else want to gag when she evoked the word Maverick again and again? I actually cheered when Biden "took back the word" and ripped McCain to shreds on his Maverick qualifications. I also think it's kind of creepy to constantly refer to yourself as a Maverick. Umm ego much?
Between "Maverick", making sure she used "partisan" in every turn, and the winking she was doing earned her a good eye poking in my opinion.
Palin, Palin, Palin.....what can I say about her. Poor thing!!!! I just want to hold her like a baby. She is out of her league. When she spoke i felt like I was at a pep rally in high school.
