Not vaccinating is child abuse

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 20, 2013 4:00 AM GMT
    It drives me NUTS when parents don't vaccinate their kids, and they all have some uninformed, ignorant opinion about the dangers of vaccines, based on internet blog posts and play-date gossip. I'm pretty conservative generally, but I think the government should mandate vaccines, or the parents have to pay a huge opt-out tax. Just because some mom wants to feel smug and alternative and anti-establishment, the rest of us have to be exposed to their baby's pertussis or varicella. The ultimate selfish act.

    188221_10151734665469112_1573018220_n.jp

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    Feb 20, 2013 6:30 AM GMT
    All I gotta say about this topic is that I'm glad I'm not a pediatric nurse.
  • wild_sky360

    Posts: 1492

    Feb 20, 2013 6:58 AM GMT
    What is smug about doing your own research, consulting with your own physician, and making your own decisions about healthcare? I think smugness would be assuming there is no legitimate debate about a subject and that one's own opinions are above reproach. Even doctors that are 100% on board with child immunization, are increasingly critical about dosing and schedule...at the very least.

    Where is your risk? Aren't you current on your vaccines?

    Here's something to mull over, concerning the very two pathogens you're concerned about.

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/07/30/whooping-cough-vaccine.aspx

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/02/chicken-pox-vaccine-creates-shingles-epidemic.aspx
  • wild_sky360

    Posts: 1492

    Feb 20, 2013 7:03 AM GMT
    Erik101 saidAll I gotta say about this topic is that I'm glad I'm not a pediatric nurse.


    There are a few possible interpretations of this statement. Would you not want the responsibility for administering them?

    I briefly dated a former pediatrician who quit practice, in part over this issue. A very young doctor who suffered emotionally devastating guilt over serious side effects in two patients in the course of his very short career.
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    Feb 20, 2013 7:05 AM GMT
    I want to agree but after seeing what happened to my cousin after she received a vaccine many years ago... I don't know if I could completely agree with it being child abuse.
  • wild_sky360

    Posts: 1492

    Feb 20, 2013 7:11 AM GMT
    The articles I posted stress that naturally acquired immunity during childhood is much more effective and is also lifelong. Those who received their immunity to chicken pox and measles for example, by injection are now going to require boosters the rest of their lives to avoid life threatening adult illness.
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    Feb 20, 2013 7:20 AM GMT
    Mandate vaccines?

    Might as well allow unauthorized drone bombings of US citizens on US soil without anything but suspicion of treason or terrorism which can include missing fingers or being an extreme couponer with a stockpile that can last more than 2 weeks. . . oh wait.

    <3 Ron Paul.

    I guess it's also child abuse for a parent to not buy their child the freshest most organic fruits and vegetables.

    The government should mandate balanced diets and send each family daily meals Jenny Craig-style so that they don't bring their nasty swine flu to my child's classroom. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 20, 2013 7:23 AM GMT
    BroTie saidMandate vaccines?

    Might as well allow unauthorized drone bombings of US citizens on US soil without anything but suspicion of treason or terrorism which can include missing fingers or being an extreme couponer with a stockpile that can last more than 2 weeks. . . oh wait.

    <3 Ron Paul.

    I guess it's also child abuse for a parent to not buy their child the freshest most organic fruits and vegetables.

    The government should mandate balanced diets and send each family daily meals Jenny Craig-style so that they don't bring their nasty swine flu to my child's classroom. icon_rolleyes.gif


    +1 (minus the Ron Paul part)
  • wild_sky360

    Posts: 1492

    Feb 20, 2013 7:28 AM GMT
    @BroTie

    +1, including Dr Ron Paul, the number one legislative advocate for health freedom.
  • Zinc

    Posts: 197

    Feb 20, 2013 7:34 AM GMT
    wild_sky360 saidThe articles I posted stress that naturally acquired immunity during childhood is much more effective and is also lifelong. Those who received their immunity to chicken pox and measles for example, by injection are now going to require boosters the rest of their lives to avoid life threatening adult illness.


    Getting chicken pox as a child means you can get shingles as an adult. I wish my parent's vaccinated me for that back then.
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    Feb 20, 2013 7:45 AM GMT
    I don't remember where but I found a link to a website that showed some stories of children who were completely different about they got vaccinated. I'll try and find it later.

    As for the topic.. Meh, I'm not a child so I don't really care.

    http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Why-I-Don-t-Vaccinate-My-Children
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    Feb 20, 2013 7:45 AM GMT
    I have neuropathy in one leg ( I cant walk) from a vacination administered in my butt so please don't force your bad science crap on me.

    Thank God my parents didnt have my feet x rayed when I needed new shoes. That was considered really scientific and progressive in the 1950's too.
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    Feb 20, 2013 7:47 AM GMT
    The debate on this topic is surprisingly heated.
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    Feb 20, 2013 7:49 AM GMT
    ^^^ And one side is rational with stats that back it up, while the other is driven by pseudo-science. Bad Mix.

    I have to avoid this topic with some of my friends. Thank goodness the ones that are most opposed don't actually have kids!
  • Zinc

    Posts: 197

    Feb 20, 2013 7:52 AM GMT
    Frightening people about vaccines is producing a major public health problem. For the first time in decades, diseases such as measles are on the rise among children in the US.
  • Zinc

    Posts: 197

    Feb 20, 2013 7:55 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]

    Thank God my parents didnt have my feet x rayed when I needed new shoes. That was considered really scientific and progressive in the 1950's too. [/quote]

    What a perfect example of a straw man argument.icon_rolleyes.gif

    This is a first world discussion. Our society has forgotten what a world of infectious disease actually looks like.
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    Feb 20, 2013 8:06 AM GMT
    wild_sky360 saidWhat is smug about doing your own research, consulting with your own physician, and making your own decisions about healthcare? I think smugness would be assuming there is no legitimate debate about a subject and that one's own opinions are above reproach. Even doctors that are 100% on board with child immunization, are increasingly critical about dosing and schedule...at the very least.

    Where is your risk? Aren't you current on your vaccines?

    Here's something to mull over, concerning the very two pathogens you're concerned about.

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/07/30/whooping-cough-vaccine.aspx

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/02/chicken-pox-vaccine-creates-shingles-epidemic.aspx


    Your backing your argument up with articles by Mercola? This article reads like a horror story from Ripley's Believe it or Not, complete with the explanation points and scare headlines. Try one of the HUNDREDS of published scientific, peer-reviewed, review articles in a legitimate journal if you want to have a serious discussion.

    And look up the concept of herd immunity. Kids not being immunized puts the entire population at risk, not just the poor child of some selfish hippie parents.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 20, 2013 8:25 AM GMT
    Not vaccinating your child reduce risk for their health if and only if everyone else keep vaccinating.

    I share the OP outrage at people wanting not to share the common burden because they want to take the benefit without the smallest hint of personal risk.


  • wild_sky360

    Posts: 1492

    Feb 20, 2013 8:58 AM GMT
    oozyrat said
    wild_sky360 saidWhat is smug about doing your own research, consulting with your own physician, and making your own decisions about healthcare? I think smugness would be assuming there is no legitimate debate about a subject and that one's own opinions are above reproach. Even doctors that are 100% on board with child immunization, are increasingly critical about dosing and schedule...at the very least.

    Where is your risk? Aren't you current on your vaccines?

    Here's something to mull over, concerning the very two pathogens you're concerned about.

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/07/30/whooping-cough-vaccine.aspx

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/02/chicken-pox-vaccine-creates-shingles-epidemic.aspx


    Your backing your argument up with articles by Mercola? This article reads like a horror story from Ripley's Believe it or Not, complete with the explanation points and scare headlines. Try one of the HUNDREDS of published scientific, peer-reviewed, review articles in a legitimate journal if you want to have a serious discussion.

    And look up the concept of herd immunity. Kids not being immunized puts the entire population at risk, not just the poor child of some selfish hippie parents.


    If the herd ( what an appropriate term) is all vaccinated then they can all stand smugly with hand on hips while the unvaccinated get sick. But no, in many instances it is the properly vaccinated who are all taken down in an outbreak; and not in isolated instances.

    Dr Mercola began his career as a mainstream physician, even as one of those pharmaceutical whoring docs, until his conscience kicked in. He stopped being brainwashed by the AMA for starters, as many others dare at their own peril. His dramatic writing and speaking style do not negate his overly obsessive pursuit of research to back his claims.
  • wild_sky360

    Posts: 1492

    Feb 20, 2013 9:03 AM GMT
    Zinc said
    wild_sky360 saidThe articles I posted stress that naturally acquired immunity during childhood is much more effective and is also lifelong. Those who received their immunity to chicken pox and measles for example, by injection are now going to require boosters the rest of their lives to avoid life threatening adult illness.


    Getting chicken pox as a child means you can get shingles as an adult. I wish my parent's vaccinated me for that back then.


    Read the article in question which blames the rising epidemic of shingles on the chicken pox vaccine itself.
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    Feb 20, 2013 10:32 AM GMT
    wild_sky360 said
    Zinc said
    wild_sky360 saidThe articles I posted stress that naturally acquired immunity during childhood is much more effective and is also lifelong. Those who received their immunity to chicken pox and measles for example, by injection are now going to require boosters the rest of their lives to avoid life threatening adult illness.


    Getting chicken pox as a child means you can get shingles as an adult. I wish my parent's vaccinated me for that back then.


    Read the article in question which blames the rising epidemic of shingles on the chicken pox vaccine itself.


    Hummm.... did you read the article yourself ?
    I wonder, because at the end of it, you have a list sources.
    Read them. The scientific studies linked do not back up many of the article point.

    For example, relating your previous post, there is a link explaining the herd immunity :
    http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/Pages/communityImmunity.aspx
    And as you can see it explain how it works, it certainly doesn't say it doesn't work.

    So the article claims about herd immunity rely on.... personal opinions, as it's not backed up with any linked scientific reference.
    As the article DO refer to scientific studies to backup some of his claims (like on pertussis), I have to assume they didn't found any scientific background to back them up on "natural /vs vaccine herd strength", otherwise, they would have used them.

    It's a mix of paranoia, complot theory, demagogic call to individual right over government decision, spiced with just enough true fact and true scientific data to make it appear legit.

    I'm just waiting for the part when I'm offer a promotion to to buy the book.


  • monet

    Posts: 1093

    Feb 20, 2013 1:07 PM GMT
    I readily agreed to have both of my children vaccinated with everything their pediatrician recommended.
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    Feb 20, 2013 1:13 PM GMT
    Zinc said
    wild_sky360 saidThe articles I posted stress that naturally acquired immunity during childhood is much more effective and is also lifelong. Those who received their immunity to chicken pox and measles for example, by injection are now going to require boosters the rest of their lives to avoid life threatening adult illness.


    Getting chicken pox as a child means you can get shingles as an adult. I wish my parent's vaccinated me for that back then.


    There's an adult vaccine for shingles and the most common form of pnemonia.
  • Angelix90

    Posts: 267

    Feb 20, 2013 1:34 PM GMT
    As a guy who is studying medicine, I facepalmed so hard, it hurts.

  • blueandgold

    Posts: 396

    Feb 20, 2013 1:44 PM GMT
    Mrap saidI don't remember where but I found a link to a website that showed some stories of children who were completely different about they got vaccinated. I'll try and find it later.

    As for the topic.. Meh, I'm not a child so I don't really care.

    http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Why-I-Don-t-Vaccinate-My-Children


    Only caring about topics that direct affect you is pretty horrifying. It more or less justifies isolated minority prejudice and injustice.

    Good thing you're not a gay man expecting all those straights to care about your historical oppression and lack of equal rights.