Death Penalty

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 22, 2013 1:56 PM GMT
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/former-executioner-opposes-death_n_2718599.html

    Take a listen to this.
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    Feb 22, 2013 2:38 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree saidhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/former-executioner-opposes-death_n_2718599.html

    Take a listen to this.

    I'm a little surprised seeing this posted by you. Most hardcore right-wingers are in favor of the death penalty, and dispute that anyone who's innocent is ever wrongfully executed in the US. Or if they are, it's just the cost of doing business.
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    Feb 22, 2013 2:46 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    freedomisntfree saidhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/former-executioner-opposes-death_n_2718599.html

    Take a listen to this.

    I'm a little surprised seeing this posted by you. Most hardcore right-wingers are in favor of the death penalty, and dispute that anyone who's innocent is ever wrongly executed in the US. Or if they are, it's just the cost of doing business.


    Why? I'm adamantly opposed in the vast majority (not all) of cases to the death penalty for exactly this reason. Once the prosecution sinks their teeth into you, it becomes a game of winning or losing, not doing what's right. Many political careers are built on prosecution 'success' rates. If one doesn't have hundreds of thousands of bucks to defend themselves, their chances of 'justice' are hugely diminished. I'm sure you've heard of the Innocence Project http://www.innocenceproject.org/
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Feb 22, 2013 6:23 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said Once the prosecution sinks their teeth into you, it becomes a game of winning or losing, not doing what's right. Many political careers are built on prosecution 'success' rates. If one doesn't have hundreds of thousands of bucks to defend themselves, their chances of 'justice' are hugely diminished. I'm sure you've heard of the Innocence Project http://www.innocenceproject.org/


    100% correct.

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    Feb 22, 2013 7:54 PM GMT
    thadjock said
    freedomisntfree said Once the prosecution sinks their teeth into you, it becomes a game of winning or losing, not doing what's right. Many political careers are built on prosecution 'success' rates. If one doesn't have hundreds of thousands of bucks to defend themselves, their chances of 'justice' are hugely diminished. I'm sure you've heard of the Innocence Project http://www.innocenceproject.org/


    100% correct.

    if you are ever accused, suspected, investigated, or arrested for a capital crime, do not make any statement to anyone, lawyer-up immediately.

    your first call should be to Jeralyn Merritt, or Joe Tacopina, and you better hope you and your family have enough houses to mortgage to pay for your defense.

    the only reason they call it "justice" is because "crap shoot" was already taken.


    First issue is that there are far far too many laws on the books so you can qualify for a 500 count indictment just getting out of bed in the morning and second .... once a prosecutor's name, reputation, ego, political future is attached to a case and you don't have hundreds of thousands for a defense and are relying on a court appointed public defender, you're likely cooked.

    The entire system is built around conflict and no one profits without conflict. Federal sentences guidelines are nuts for non violent offenders. I fail to see the sense in having 1 of 100 (appx) males in this country behind bars and often for a very long time. I fail to see why we (USA) need incarceration rates 4x of any other western European country. I know I frequently sound like some liberal, but fairness is fairness and I sure don't see it as often as I should.

    Rant/
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Feb 22, 2013 8:14 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said. Federal sentences guidelines are nuts for non violent offenders. I fail to see the sense in having 1 of 100 (appx) males in this country behind bars and often for a very time. I fail to see why need incarceration rates 4x of any other western European country. /


    and,....there's a huge racial bias built into the system
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    Feb 22, 2013 8:17 PM GMT
    If ever I was going to commit a heinous crime in the USA. I sure would make sure it was done in a state with the death penalty, as I would hate to spend the rest of my life in jail; death would be a reprieve from life in jail.
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    Feb 22, 2013 8:30 PM GMT
    thadjock said
    freedomisntfree said. Federal sentences guidelines are nuts for non violent offenders. I fail to see the sense in having 1 of 100 (appx) males in this country behind bars and often for a very time. I fail to see why need incarceration rates 4x of any other western European country. /


    and,....there's a huge racial bias built into the system


    And not to ruin my impeccable Republican / right wing credentials, but I pity the poor overzealous prosecutor who has me on the jury.
  • thadjock

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    Feb 22, 2013 8:42 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    And not to ruin my impeccable Republican / right wing credentials, but I pity the poor overzealous prosecutor who has me on the jury.


    OMG can you hear that too? [hell freezing over]
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    Feb 22, 2013 9:19 PM GMT
    thadjock said
    freedomisntfree said
    And not to ruin my impeccable Republican / right wing credentials, but I pity the poor overzealous prosecutor who has me on the jury.


    OMG can you hear that too? [hell freezing over]


    Why "OMG"? perfectly consistent as far as I'm concerned.
  • thadjock

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    Feb 22, 2013 9:26 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Why "OMG"? perfectly consistent as far as I'm concerned.


    quick:

    your sentencing recommendation for George Zimmerman
  • Lukehiker

    Posts: 161

    Feb 23, 2013 5:58 AM GMT
    While I support the Death Penalty(there are just some out there that don't deserve a chance to commit their crimes again....), I also believe that it should ONLY be applied to those with crimes so heinous that "first degree murder" doesn't even begin to describe.

    All in all though, our legal system needs a overhaul.

    I have a record myself in the system....despite being manipulated by a quack psychologist who told me I was depressed, then put me on an anti-depressant 2 times the adult dosage....when I was 12.

    The system is broken....ugh....
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    Feb 23, 2013 9:13 AM GMT
    I've never supported the death penalty because for me the whole "eye for an eye" thing never made any sense. This just adds another reason that I think it's wrong.

    More importantly, WHO IS THAT CUTE news anchor. And can he be my husband?icon_question.gif
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    Feb 23, 2013 1:46 PM GMT
    yourname2000 saidI'm a fan. But I'd like a death penalty that was a real (as in swift) death penalty. I don't care for it as a deterrent, I just think there are some vermin on this planet who've proven their worthlessness so thoroughly and repeatedly that they should simply be culled. No grand display....no endless appeals....give 'em some nice drugs, play their favourite music, shoot 'em in the head, and harvest all reusable parts (they could start harvesting some things --a kidney, lung (anything a person has two of), corneas, skin, marrow, etc--while any bleeding heart appeals/verification of non-redeemability took place in the courts.

    There's 7 billion people on the planet. The gene pool is safe. I'm sure a lot of victims would love to know their assailant was never going to "get out", good people need organs, and these POS just cost us money. No point in spending good money after bad to keep scum alive forever because of some misguided and illogical concept of Christian charity.

    So yeah, there was a guy in BC who stole over 1000 cars over his extensive criminal career (by the time he was mid-20s). What exactly is his "potential" at that point?? Pedophiles, rapists, murderers....we're not going to miss these "people". And I can't remember the last work of art, or scientific discovery, or cure for cancer that ever came from such an individual.

    Not all apples make it to market. If there's a rotten one, just mulch it as soon as you find it....any delay is just a waste of resources. I do think it could be a relatively peaceful and comfortable process though...no reason not to be kind in the end. It's just simply a "thanks for playing; your services are not required on the planet; come lay on this comfy bench over here (away from the carpet); think a happy thought!; and bang.

    Easy-peesy. icon_cool.gif


    Hey, we agree on something!!icon_smile.gif
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    Feb 23, 2013 2:42 PM GMT
    thadjock said
    freedomisntfree said
    Why "OMG"? perfectly consistent as far as I'm concerned.


    quick:

    your sentencing recommendation for George Zimmerman


    I haven't been paying much attention to this, but I didn't know he'd been tried and convicted?
  • thadjock

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    Feb 23, 2013 2:57 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    I haven't been paying much attention to this, but I didn't know he'd been tried and convicted?


    oh he hasn't, they can't even get a jury convened, the judge ordered that 500 jurors be available for the trial because he's that convinced there aren't any people who haven't already been prejudiced and polarised by media accounts of the case.

    i think under FL law, he'll get some minimal sentence ( max 3yrs ) , maybe even time served or suspended with probation. and there will be riots in the african american community. but because our collective attention span synapse has been reduced to 15 min, it won't be anything like when the king verdict was handed down.
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    Feb 23, 2013 3:19 PM GMT
    thadjock said
    freedomisntfree said
    I haven't been paying much attention to this, but I didn't know he'd been tried and convicted?


    oh he hasn't, they can't even get a jury convened, the judge ordered that 500 jurors be available for the trial because he's that convinced there aren't any people who haven't already been prejudiced and polarised by media accounts of the case.

    i think under FL law, he'll get some minimal sentence ( max 3yrs ) , maybe even time served or suspended with probation. and there will be riots in the african american community. but because our collective attention span synapse has been reduced to 15 min, it won't be anything like when the king verdict was handed down.


    On this one, I don't have an opinion. I'd have to be on that jury and see / hear the evidence.

    However, on any jury, they'd have to get me way beyond "reasonable doubt" for me to vote for conviction, especially a death penalty case. I'm not saying that there would never be an instance where I'd feel its appropriate, but they'd have a very long climb to ever get me there.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Feb 23, 2013 3:57 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    ART_DECO said
    freedomisntfree saidhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/former-executioner-opposes-death_n_2718599.html

    Take a listen to this.

    I'm a little surprised seeing this posted by you. Most hardcore right-wingers are in favor of the death penalty, and dispute that anyone who's innocent is ever wrongly executed in the US. Or if they are, it's just the cost of doing business.


    Why? I'm adamantly opposed in the vast majority (not all) of cases to the death penalty for exactly this reason. Once the prosecution sinks their teeth into you, it becomes a game of winning or losing, not doing what's right. Many political careers are built on prosecution 'success' rates. If one doesn't have hundreds of thousands of bucks to defend themselves, their chances of 'justice' are hugely diminished. I'm sure you've heard of the Innocence Project http://www.innocenceproject.org/
    I definitely agree with you 100% on this one. There needs to be major noise in the mainstream news outlets like the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Chicago Tribune, CNN, Fox, ABC and other major media outlets. The American public needs to know the truth behind most of these death penalty cases and the relationship to political careers.
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    Feb 23, 2013 4:29 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    freedomisntfree said
    ART_DECO said
    freedomisntfree saidhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/former-executioner-opposes-death_n_2718599.html

    Take a listen to this.

    I'm a little surprised seeing this posted by you. Most hardcore right-wingers are in favor of the death penalty, and dispute that anyone who's innocent is ever wrongly executed in the US. Or if they are, it's just the cost of doing business.


    Why? I'm adamantly opposed in the vast majority (not all) of cases to the death penalty for exactly this reason. Once the prosecution sinks their teeth into you, it becomes a game of winning or losing, not doing what's right. Many political careers are built on prosecution 'success' rates. If one doesn't have hundreds of thousands of bucks to defend themselves, their chances of 'justice' are hugely diminished. I'm sure you've heard of the Innocence Project http://www.innocenceproject.org/
    I definitely agree with you 100% on this one. There needs to be major noise in the mainstream news outlets like the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Chicago Tribune, CNN, Fox, ABC and other major media outlets. The American public needs to know the truth behind most of these death penalty cases and the relationship to political careers.


    Over the 20+ years that I worked for the country's largest legal publisher (the attorneys on here know exactly who I'm talking about) and had folks as clients, from the U.S. Attorney's office, FBI, down to the county DA and public defender's office plus local police department detective bureaus in addition to attorneys in private practice, I've heard enough war stories over the years to make me very wary. Once a high profile case get publicity it also gets politicized and political futures are at stake, fairness often goes out the window. It becomes 'win' versus 'lose' and doing justice is often out the window.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Feb 23, 2013 4:35 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    roadbikeRob said
    freedomisntfree said
    ART_DECO said
    freedomisntfree saidhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/former-executioner-opposes-death_n_2718599.html

    Take a listen to this.

    I'm a little surprised seeing this posted by you. Most hardcore right-wingers are in favor of the death penalty, and dispute that anyone who's innocent is ever wrongly executed in the US. Or if they are, it's just the cost of doing business.


    Why? I'm adamantly opposed in the vast majority (not all) of cases to the death penalty for exactly this reason. Once the prosecution sinks their teeth into you, it becomes a game of winning or losing, not doing what's right. Many political careers are built on prosecution 'success' rates. If one doesn't have hundreds of thousands of bucks to defend themselves, their chances of 'justice' are hugely diminished. I'm sure you've heard of the Innocence Project http://www.innocenceproject.org/
    I definitely agree with you 100% on this one. There needs to be major noise in the mainstream news outlets like the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Chicago Tribune, CNN, Fox, ABC and other major media outlets. The American public needs to know the truth behind most of these death penalty cases and the relationship to political careers.


    Over the 20+ years that I worked for the country's largest legal publisher (the attorneys on here know exactly who I'm talking about) and had folks as clients, from the U.S. Attorney's office, FBI, down to the county DA and public defender's office plus local police department detective bureaus in addition to attorneys in private practice, I've heard enough war stories over the years to make me very wary. Once a high profile case get publicity it also gets politicized and political futures are at stake, fairness often goes out the window. It becomes 'win' versus 'lose' and doing justice is often out the window.
    I really don't care for the death penalty. In fact, I am becoming more opposed to it in many cases because of the serious risk of convicting the wrong person and sending them to death row and executing them. How does the judicial system try to repair the damage once they admitted to executing the wrong personicon_question.gif This is what really concerns me.
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    Feb 23, 2013 4:48 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    freedomisntfree said
    roadbikeRob said
    freedomisntfree said
    ART_DECO said
    freedomisntfree saidhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/former-executioner-opposes-death_n_2718599.html

    Take a listen to this.

    I'm a little surprised seeing this posted by you. Most hardcore right-wingers are in favor of the death penalty, and dispute that anyone who's innocent is ever wrongly executed in the US. Or if they are, it's just the cost of doing business.


    Why? I'm adamantly opposed in the vast majority (not all) of cases to the death penalty for exactly this reason. Once the prosecution sinks their teeth into you, it becomes a game of winning or losing, not doing what's right. Many political careers are built on prosecution 'success' rates. If one doesn't have hundreds of thousands of bucks to defend themselves, their chances of 'justice' are hugely diminished. I'm sure you've heard of the Innocence Project http://www.innocenceproject.org/
    I definitely agree with you 100% on this one. There needs to be major noise in the mainstream news outlets like the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Chicago Tribune, CNN, Fox, ABC and other major media outlets. The American public needs to know the truth behind most of these death penalty cases and the relationship to political careers.


    Over the 20+ years that I worked for the country's largest legal publisher (the attorneys on here know exactly who I'm talking about) and had folks as clients, from the U.S. Attorney's office, FBI, down to the county DA and public defender's office plus local police department detective bureaus in addition to attorneys in private practice, I've heard enough war stories over the years to make me very wary. Once a high profile case get publicity it also gets politicized and political futures are at stake, fairness often goes out the window. It becomes 'win' versus 'lose' and doing justice is often out the window.
    I really don't care for the death penalty. In fact, I am becoming more opposed to it in many cases because of the serious risk of convicting the wrong person and sending them to death row and executing them. How does the judicial system try to repair the damage once they admitted to executing the wrong personicon_question.gif This is what really concerns me.


    Obviously, once they're wrongly put to death it's impossible, but even wrongly incarcerated in many instances, for decades, is just unconscionable. I don't know how one would repair something like that. And it happens more than you'd think. That coupled with the almost unbelievable number of new laws/regs promulgated each and every year by the feds, regulatory agencies (i.e.: EPA), states, counties and municipalities, if you really want to go after someone, you WILL find something to charge them with, whether it's the original charge or process crimes (Scooter Libby come to mind).
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    Feb 27, 2013 5:39 PM GMT
    Starts at min 3:50 after all the bullshit ads, but THIS is exactly what I'm talking about regarding elected prosecutors and the potential for presucutorial abuse.

    http://www.newsmax.com/US/dershowitz-zimmerman-martin-defense/2013/02/26/id/492168

    Starts at min 3:50 after all the bullshit ads, but THIS is exactly what I'm talking about regarding elected prosecutors and the potential for prosecutorial abuse to get those conviction rates up so they can run for higher office. This happens all over the country and makes its real difficult for someone without hundreds of thousands $$$ for a great defense atty.to get a fair trial. We have to find some other solution other than elected prosecutors. Maybe appointment by the state supreme court?
  • thadjock

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    Feb 27, 2013 5:46 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said. We have to find some other solution other than elected prosecutors. Maybe appointment by the state supreme court?


    on the surface that sounds good,

    but c'mon, with so many crooked appointed judges around , what makes you think appointing prosecutors would have a higher success rate.

    at trial alot of times the Judge is the biggest problem, couple that with lame defense attorney's and it's a recipe for railroading.
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    Feb 27, 2013 6:27 PM GMT
    thadjock said
    freedomisntfree said. We have to find some other solution other than elected prosecutors. Maybe appointment by the state supreme court?


    on the surface that sounds good,

    but c'mon, with so many crooked appointed judges around , what makes you think appointing prosecutors would have a higher success rate.

    at trial alot of times the Judge is the biggest problem, couple that with lame defense attorney's and it's a recipe for railroading.


    Dunno, but the state supreme courts do adjudicate atty discipline/ethics issues and seem to do a pretty good job. I don't know what the solution is, but what we have now is roundly abused. I think Dershowitz nails it in this instance.
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    Mar 11, 2013 5:27 PM GMT
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/10/david-ayers-exonerated-ohio-13-million_n_2847503.html