Censorship is alive and well in Canada – just ask government scientists

  • metta

    Posts: 39108

    Feb 23, 2013 2:22 AM GMT
    Censorship is alive and well in Canada – just ask government scientists

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/censorship-is-alive-and-well-in-canada-just-ask-government-scientists/article8996700/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 23, 2013 2:34 AM GMT
    metta8 saidCensorship is alive and well in Canada – just ask government scientists

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/censorship-is-alive-and-well-in-canada-just-ask-government-scientists/article8996700/


    That;'s just idiotic - compare that with anywhere else. Do you even think about these things? The problem is that when they speak they aren't speaking as private citizens especially as employees in government. Are scientists under the Obama Administration allowed to speak freely against US policy? Or if you have employees would you let them speak freely to the press about your business without your consent?
  • O5vx

    Posts: 3154

    Feb 23, 2013 6:29 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    metta8 saidCensorship is alive and well in Canada – just ask government scientists

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/censorship-is-alive-and-well-in-canada-just-ask-government-scientists/article8996700/


    That;'s just idiotic - compare that with anywhere else. Do you even think about these things? The problem is that when they speak they aren't speaking as private citizens especially as employees in government. Are scientists under the Obama Administration allowed to speak freely against US policy? Or if you have employees would you let them speak freely to the press about your business without your consent?
    Scientists are not employed by the government and even if they are, they are required to published any findings that is related to the health and safety of the society---that is their job. Part of ensuring that the public has the rights Information to make inform choices is ensuring that they have information from the media. The media and scientist should be best buddies because they have similar obligation.

    The conservative government of Canada are known for doing too little to address the challenges of global warming and this is just another proof to support what has been evident for sometime now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 23, 2013 6:47 AM GMT
    I'm no fan of Harper but seriously, this is a non-story. If the government pays its own scientists or those through 3rd party labs to do research on its behalf, why should those scientists then be allowed to disclose the data? That data belongs to the government of Canada.

    If someone believes it should be public there are proper channels to follow. Whistle blower legislation, freedom of information act etc. The idea of allowing public employees to divulge whatever information they decide to is absurd. Scientists are just regular people with biases and agendas. It shouldn't be up to them to decide what research gets trickled to the media.
  • UncleverName

    Posts: 741

    Feb 23, 2013 2:22 PM GMT
    I understand and agree with the guy above me. The thing that is concerning to me, and a little alarming, is that the Harper Conservatives are the only government in recent history to also look at it that way. Yeah, you want to control what your employees say to the public. But if you haven't been doing that for years and years, why suddenly start doing it now? And the reason the government hasn't been doing it prior to the Conservatives is because the people of Canada, who ultimately pay for all of this research, have a right to know of the findings, without having to use and pay through the freedom of information act.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 23, 2013 3:19 PM GMT
    Well for those not in the Academy, you are dillusional if you think it is the conservative elements that stifle freedom of speech. The new/old concept of social justice (get Whity) is alive and well. If you speak against it, you are automatically a racist, and if you are a White male you are satan incarnate.

    If you speak against the idea of man-made global warming you are against science-despite the lack of evidence of any human contribution. The left is always the one that justifies silencing people based on the good of the state. Always beware of government - see in history of the Soviet Union, nazi germany, Iran, etc.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 23, 2013 3:24 PM GMT
    Censorship is everywhere and every country...

    One way or other way it is related to either money or power or sex etc.,. or all!
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14350

    Feb 23, 2013 5:18 PM GMT
    Harry7785 saidCensorship is everywhere and every country...

    One way or other way it is related to either money or power or sex etc.,. or all!
    That is the absolute truth.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 23, 2013 5:23 PM GMT
    Canada? Where is that? Come on, do they even have a government there?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 23, 2013 6:43 PM GMT
    Shawnathan saidI'd love to get into this debate, but I work as a researcher for the Government of Canada, so I'm not allowed to.


    ZZZZIIINNNNGGGG! icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 23, 2013 6:46 PM GMT
    *laughs at Riddiot's post, who also thinks the closing of the Kitsilano Coast Guard was a Good Thing saving 700k a year and ironically has no problem with the fiscally conservative gov't blowing 28 million over a few years to re-enact the war of 1812 *

    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2013 4:39 PM GMT
    meninlove said *laughs at Riddiot's post, who also thinks the closing of the Kitsilano Coast Guard was a Good Thing saving 700k a year and ironically has no problem with the fiscally conservative gov't blowing 28 million over a few years to re-enact the war of 1812 *

    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif


    Heh - except I've never said I was ok with the closing of the Kitsilano Coast Guard that I'm not even familiar with. As for re-enacting the war of 1812? When did I say I was in support of that?

    You've gotten so stupid these days you aren't even able to keep your facts straight. Oh, that's right - you're trying to "troll" me. icon_rolleyes.gif Better luck next time. icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2013 4:48 PM GMT
    Shawnathan saidI'd love to get into this debate, but I work as a researcher for the Government of Canada, so I'm not allowed to.


    I'm curious - why would you then choose to work for the Government of Canada? And that's a bit disingenuous as well given that the rule is that just that researchers aren't allowed to speak to media without first getting approval. That's not "censorship" given that they are still able to publish their findings without interference.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2013 7:55 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    meninlove said *laughs at Riddiot's post, who also thinks the closing of the Kitsilano Coast Guard was a Good Thing saving 700k a year and ironically has no problem with the fiscally conservative gov't blowing 28 million over a few years to re-enact the war of 1812 *

    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif


    Heh - except I've never said I was ok with the closing of the Kitsilano Coast Guard that I'm not even familiar with. As for re-enacting the war of 1812? When did I say I was in support of that?

    You've gotten so stupid these days you aren't even able to keep your facts straight. Oh, that's right - you're trying to "troll" me. icon_rolleyes.gif Better luck next time. icon_wink.gif


    I have my facts straight all right *snickers at your befuddlement*. You said both in the same topic.

    Oh, and now the feds are pumping 6.5 million into a new coast guard base in PEI - the one in Kits was the busiest in Canada, doing 300 rescues last year alone. icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2013 8:01 PM GMT
    NOw here we have Riddiot calling me stupid etc etc etc BUT....

    Here you are justifying the coast guard closeure with a typical Riddiotic argument, and shrugging off the colossal waste of 28 million dollars of taxpayers money on what you dismissed as some monument or commemorative thing. You didn't even bother to look it up, calling the closure of the coast guard and the wastrel spending on something else 'unrelated'. Well, they are as the coast guard closure was to save money, and the 1812 boondoggle a waste of it.
    That's right, you, who froth at a dollar wasted. icon_lol.gif

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2470382

    It's becoming increasingly apparent who exactly is stupid here. icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2013 9:25 PM GMT
    meninlove said NOw here we have Riddiot calling me stupid etc etc etc BUT....

    Here you are justifying the coast guard closeure with a typical Riddiotic argument, and shrugging off the colossal waste of 28 million dollars of taxpayers money on what you dismissed as some monument or commemorative thing. You didn't even bother to look it up, calling the closure of the coast guard and the wastrel spending on something else 'unrelated'. Well, they are as the coast guard closure was to save money, and the 1812 boondoggle a waste of it.
    That's right, you, who froth at a dollar wasted. icon_lol.gif

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2470382

    It's becoming increasingly apparent who exactly is stupid here. icon_lol.gif


    If you bothered actually reading my response did I say I was in support of the spending on the 1812 commemoration? Please refer to the above to my point on how you're becoming too stupid to keep your facts straight. icon_lol.gif

    As for the Kitsilano Coast Guard - the principle stands - but it's also not like they have abandoned the idea of having search and rescue either. Even the CBC reported that "Search-and-rescue services will now be handled by the coast guard base at Sea Island, in Richmond, which is 17 nautical miles away." Better luck next time icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2013 9:31 PM GMT


    ....and so you roll around like a mousie on a wheel. icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2013 9:32 PM GMT


    ....and so you roll around like a mousie on a wheel. icon_lol.gif

    Too bad you didn't do your homework about what 17 nautical miles means.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2013 9:36 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    ....and so you roll around like a mousie on a wheel. icon_lol.gif


    Heh - given that you're so incompetent as to hit the submit button only once, me thinks the lady doth protest too much. icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2013 9:37 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    ....and so you roll around like a mousie on a wheel. icon_lol.gif

    Too bad you didn't do your homework about what 17 nautical miles means.



    And it's too bad you've never heard of a helicopter. icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Feb 24, 2013 9:46 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    meninlove said

    ....and so you roll around like a mousie on a wheel. icon_lol.gif

    Too bad you didn't do your homework about what 17 nautical miles means.



    And it's too bad you've never heard of a helicopter. icon_wink.gif


    Oh good lord!icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
  • OptimusMatt

    Posts: 1124

    Feb 24, 2013 9:54 PM GMT
    uoft23 saidI'm no fan of Harper but seriously, this is a non-story. If the government pays its own scientists or those through 3rd party labs to do research on its behalf, why should those scientists then be allowed to disclose the data? That data belongs to the government of Canada.

    If someone believes it should be public there are proper channels to follow. Whistle blower legislation, freedom of information act etc. The idea of allowing public employees to divulge whatever information they decide to is absurd. Scientists are just regular people with biases and agendas. It shouldn't be up to them to decide what research gets trickled to the media.


    I agree with what you've stated, but the Harper government HAS been rather heavy-handed regarding access to information requests and information in general.

    One has only to look at the f-35 debacle (which, to be clear, I support a unified NATO air force but this really is something we cannot afford in the current economic climate) to see just how difficult it can be to get information out of this government.
    The F-35 costs turned out to be grossly (and I'd suggest intentionally, imo) under-estimated. And with Alberta's oil sands being one of Canada's primary economic engines it's pretty obvious what a government's intentions are when a department that (historically) hasn't been muzzled all of a sudden is, when their recent research conflicts with our sacred cash cow.

    I agree that on its own it's not a huge deal. But combine it with the general recalcitrance of the Harper government, the omnibus legislation, the cuts to Environment Canada and all the other paper cuts to our system of checks and balances it paints a pretty grim picture of where this country is headed.

    Fiscally, we're solid. Socially...we're on thin ice...possibly due to (political) climate change.


    MMhmm that's right, I went there }-P