YourName2000 and JerseyJames75 want your opinions...

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    Mar 02, 2013 8:47 AM GMT
    YourName2000 and JerseyJames75 have been having a private message debate all morning. Neither of us can agree, and so I suggested that he and I have our debate in public so anyone that is interested can voice their input, and help us see different perspectives. He told me to start the thread. I'm approaching this as a learning activity for the two of us, and others. If you find this boring, you don't have to participate. For those that are interested, input is welcome and highly desired (at least on my part).

    Essentially, YN2K thinks that all forums need a villain: A person who stirs the pot and keeps things going. I agreed in some senses, but feel that his approach is often unnecessarily negative, offensive, and potentially harmful. For a specific example see the recent autism thread. http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/3054158

    Essentially I think he needs to be more eloquent and tactful.

    He also thinks I am young, dumb, and need to learn more. I agree that I am young, and that there is a ton more for me to learn, and that I'm going to be learning for the rest of my life. But I don't think biological age necessarily lines up with psychological growth. I also think that he needs to grow too, as we all do.

    I'll let him comment and debate his thoughts. Or never respond. Which he might do.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:03 AM GMT
    I WAS THE VILLAIN UNTIL EVERYBODY MADE ME CHANGE.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:03 AM GMT
    also i was a villain in an honest way not in a make-up-arguments-because-im-bored way
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:05 AM GMT
    Villain (noun): someone with a point of view other than your own
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:05 AM GMT
    Public message board: No shoulds, coulds, needs, have to's, don't have to's exist. Someone says something, other people may agree or like it, or revile and block it. It is what it is. Everyone is responsible for what they make of themselves.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:06 AM GMT
    McQueen saidalso i was a villain in an honest way not in a make-up-arguments-because-im-bored way


    Are you implying that I am making up an argument now? Or am I misinterpreting your text?
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:09 AM GMT
    Ariodante saidPublic message board: No shoulds, coulds, needs, have to's, don't have to's exist. Someone says something, other people may agree or like it, or revile and block it. It is what it is. Everyone is responsible for what they make of themselves.


    I agree with this in some ways, but it's also highly individualistic, which is a very western ideology. Other cultures take a more family-centric approach, where the behaviors of the individual influence the larger-family system, and people think about this and act accordingly. I am not disagreeing, I am just opening up the debate more.

    That's my whole idea here, trying to get us to learn from each other's counter viewpoints.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:13 AM GMT
    JerseyJames75 said
    McQueen saidalso i was a villain in an honest way not in a make-up-arguments-because-im-bored way
    Are you implying that I am making up an argument now? Or am I misinterpreting your text?
    No I am implying that yourname seems to be making shit up in the autism thread just to piss people off.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:16 AM GMT
    I think you need to work at being more succinct.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:16 AM GMT
    JerseyJames75 said

    I agree with this in some ways, but it's also highly individualistic, which is a very western ideology. Other cultures take a more family-centric approach, where the behaviors of the individual influence the larger-family system, and people think about this and act accordingly. I am not disagreeing, I am just opening up the debate more.


    Oh I wholly agree with what you're saying. There is definitely the "Let's analyze your behavior and try to resolve any difficulties between us so that we may resolve a mutual agreement and all of us can be a little better and reach common ground and something something something" approach.

    I was like that when I was....16ish?

    My approach now is one of the real world. I am me. You are you. If you behave in a manner I don't care for, I'm not going to try to change you. By all means, continue being who you are =) As far as for me? Block/Ignore. You cease to exist in my world.

    #Ain't nobody got time for that.

    Next.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:20 AM GMT
    Ariodante saidAin't nobody got time for that. Next.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:33 AM GMT
    Right. My comments in blue:
    yourname2000 saidOpinions welcomed...but this is JJ's thread....something he seems to need to workout.
    Perhaps I do need to work something out. Thanks for participating.

    He hasn't quite got my position right, but then if he had, he would have gotten the point in our (30 or 40!) emails....sometimes 3 at a time from him. again: icon_rolleyes.gif
    I counted. There were 21 email correspondences. Roughly even split. Half from him. Half from me. I did send multiple emails in a row some times. Those emails were only to highlight follow-up points to my arguments.

    I maintain that this is a forum and it is theatre. There are some discussions that just end up being a circle jerk of the same opinion and they're both easy and boring and accomplish nothing. In those discussions (which are a small number of RJ threads) the discussion is heightened greatly if someone --anyone--takes an opposing view. Many are afraid to do so...they're shy...or have some idea that not ruffling feathers is important (when it kills threads), but I'm not limited by such beliefs. I'm VERY happy to play "asshole" or "villain" in some RJ plotline. It does a couple of things: it gives people something to get their fur up and participate in the thread; and for some members sitting on the sidelines, it can be just the impetus for them to finally participate in a thread for the first time ---I'm playing an easy target for them to aim at.
    This is the part where we are partially in agreement. I also like to ruffle feathers and get people engaged in counter viewpoints. One example is the recent "dating your cousin" thread, where I brought up the idea of a father-son romance. Just to stir the pot. Our differences is that I do it with tact, and without the goal of hurting another person.

    This idiot (JJ) has tunnel vision and sees only this side of me, which is --as I say--idiotic and easily disproven by my post history. Obviously there are heartfelt threads by people in trouble in their lives, and I don't shit down their throats --I'm usually quite supportive. But damn, give me a troll thread, and I'm there...I will PLAY. And I make no apologies for that.
    "Troll threads" do not exist. There are threads where the majority of people troll, yes, but within all threads exist many individuals with many different view points and many different approaches to life. YOU ARE THE ONE choosing to play in a troll thread. I tend to either state facts and persuade others with logic, or I dip out of the thread and avoid the nonsense. I don't insult. That's pointless.

    If you write a negative thread, I'll probably respond in kind; if you write a needy thread, I'll probably try to fulfill your need by pointing you in the right direction; and you write a witty thread, I'll probably be witty in it. Different threads require different approaches, and I'm quite happy with my range of posts in different threads and frankly have no interest or intention in changing my approach.
    So hopefully you don't plan on staying static in other domains of your life right? Because there is always room to grow, learn, and change.

    Again, this is theatre.... (In your mind, from your perspective) half the people participating in the forums probably aren't even "real". The rest (including myself) are quite different online than they are off. (Not true for me. I have one representation that I try my best to show to the world. For me this is my perspective on integrity). Each of us gets what we need and want from RJ (or any online forum). If you're not strong enough to deal with the emotions you feel on RJ you have several choices: get over yourself; block the people who bother you; or choose not to log on.
    Just to clarify. I am not emotional. I am viewing this as logic fighting logic. I have other stuff I could be emotional about if I really wanted to.

    On a side note: isn't this a pathetic thread? There's a certain desperate selfishness that figures it's so owed an explanation for that which it doesn't understand that it would bleed in public like this....again, I shake my head. Yeah...you're young and dumb. You managed to turn someone reaching out to you to say "you do get this, right?" into watergate. icon_rolleyes.gif

    You could look at it as pathetic, and as me bleeding in public, I guess. I look at it as perhaps courageous? Perhaps I am being vulnerable with the hopes that not only I can learn and grow, but others can too? I am also cross-checking myself right? I am ensuring that I am not being irrational by letting the consciousness of other humans pick me apart, so then I can learn and grow even more. I am certainly not desperate. I have plenty going on in my life right now that makes me confident, content, and happy. I also haven't been ageist, directly insulting, or without-tact. Also, I tried to read about watergate on wikipedia, but I am not certain I am understanding your analogy. Clarify?
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:37 AM GMT
    I'm not sure if you should try to intellectualise a forum where the 3 threads after this are:
    - hot guys with dogs
    - cutting your own hair
    - i'm so drunk
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:39 AM GMT
    JerseyJames75 said
    "Troll threads" do not exist.


    rofl you are new icon_lol.gif

    I'll also throw a freebie your way. Shorter posts with just the right amount of info make for a good poster.

    Happy RJing.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:40 AM GMT
    Ariodante said
    JerseyJames75 said

    I agree with this in some ways, but it's also highly individualistic, which is a very western ideology. Other cultures take a more family-centric approach, where the behaviors of the individual influence the larger-family system, and people think about this and act accordingly. I am not disagreeing, I am just opening up the debate more.


    Oh I wholly agree with what you're saying. There is definitely the "Let's analyze your behavior and try to resolve any difficulties between us so that we may resolve a mutual agreement and all of us can be a little better and reach common ground and something something something" approach.

    I was like that when I was....16ish?
    Right, but this is my point. Nothing in the world functions individualistically. Everything is co-constructed by people. We are constantly co-constructing each other. The individual is an illusion. You're influenced by everyone you interact with throughout your life, and the more you seek to understand, the more you learn. No?

    My approach now is one of the real world. I am me. When you say "I am me" you are locking yourself in a position to never grow or change. It's a limiting belief. It puts a ball-and-chain on your ability to evolve. You are you. If you behave in a manner I don't care for, I'm not going to try to change you. By all means, continue being who you are =) As far as for me? Block/Ignore. You cease to exist in my world.

    #Ain't nobody got time for that.

    Next.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:41 AM GMT
    cold saidI'm not sure if you should try to intellectualise a forum where the 3 threads after this are:
    - hot guys with dogs
    - cutting your own hair
    - i'm so drunk


    Now this ^^^ This is a solid point icon_razz.gif
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:42 AM GMT
    More freebies because my sinus infection is making me magnanimous...or rather the OD'ing on meds:

    Don't make red pen commentaries (or blue in your case) of other people's posts.

    Nobody asks for it. Nobody appreciates it.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:43 AM GMT
    Ariodante saidMore freebies because my sinus infection is making me magnanimous...or rather the OD'ing on meds:

    Don't make red pen commentaries (or blue in your case) of other people's posts.

    Nobody asks for it. Nobody appreciates it.


    Lol you're talking for an awful large volume of people.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:45 AM GMT
    Ariodante saidMore freebies because my sinus infection is making me magnanimous...or rather the OD'ing on meds:

    Don't make red pen commentaries (or blue in your case) of other people's posts.

    Nobody asks for it. Nobody appreciates it.
    I want to give cold a massage while he eats gourmet hotdogs

    I highlighted what I thought was the subtext of your post.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:46 AM GMT
    cold said
    Ariodante saidMore freebies because my sinus infection is making me magnanimous...or rather the OD'ing on meds:

    Don't make red pen commentaries (or blue in your case) of other people's posts.

    Nobody asks for it. Nobody appreciates it.
    I want to give cold a massage while he eats gourmet hotdogs

    I highlighted what I thought was the subtext of your post.


    can I use my penis
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:47 AM GMT
    Ariodante said
    can I use my penis

    for the massage... or the hotdog...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:48 AM GMT
    cold said
    Ariodante said
    can I use my penis

    for the massage... or the hotdog...


    Well these are certainly more options than I had anticipated! icon_idea.gificon_idea.gificon_idea.gif
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:52 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    JerseyJames75 saidLol you're talking for an awful large volume of people.
    But you're not? icon_lol.gif
    boxing%5B1%5D.gif
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:54 AM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    JerseyJames75 said
    But you're not? icon_lol.gif


    I don't think I am? I have been stating my perspective this whole time. Sure some people don't like their messages "red-penned" but it doesn't mean that 'no one' does? I enjoy being red penned. I enjoy people's input. I guess maybe not everyone does? Is this the point you're trying to get me to see?
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    Mar 02, 2013 9:59 AM GMT
    This thread:
    "People might get butthurt if you're mean so don't do it."