Giant ancient camel remains discovered in Canadian Arctic

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    Mar 06, 2013 12:55 PM GMT
    ancient-camels.jpg?w=620http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/05/giant-ancient-camel-remains-discovered-in-canadian-arctic/

    Gosse’s group at Dalhousie University used a sophisticated dating technique to show the Ellesmere bone fragments are about 3.5 million years old.

    When the scientists put all the pieces together, what emerges is a giant camel about 30 per cent larger than today’s camels, weighing about 900 kilograms and standing about 2.7 metres high at the shoulders.

    The camels lived in a boreal forest on Ellesmere dominated by larch trees that provided plenty to eat.

    There was 24-hour sunshine in the summer and months of darkness in the snowy winters when the camels grew saggy coats to stay warm and survived on fats stored in their humps.

    “It was a really different world then,” says Rybczynski.

    But she and her colleagues say the camel and its ancient Arctic world hold important lessons.

    Slight changes in the Earth’s orbit are believed to have triggered a global temperature rise of two to three degrees about 3.5 million years ago. Due to poorly understood feedback mechanisms in the climate system, the warming was greatly amplified in the Arctic with temperatures on Ellesmere rising 14 to 22 C, allowing the forests — and camels — to move north.

    As temperatures rose and Arctic glaciers and ice melted, Gosse says the Northwest Passage and channels around Canada’s Arctic islands were filled with sediments that prevented ocean water from circulating and cooling the landscape. And there was enough precipitation to grow forests in the region that had been a “polar desert.”

    Gosse and Rybczynski say it is hard to know how the Arctic will respond in coming decades to the warming linked to human production of greenhouse gases. The average global temperature is expected to warm by at least 2 C with more pronounced warming in the Arctic, which is already evident in the record summer Arctic ice retreats in recent years.
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    Mar 06, 2013 6:36 PM GMT
    Interesting read. Fascinating to imagine an animal like that.

    Only a small mistake: using the term "global warming" is little outdated, and also there's still no scientific evidence of human cause of the climate change.
  • Medjai

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    Mar 06, 2013 6:51 PM GMT
    klobasnik saidInteresting read. Fascinating to imagine an animal like that.

    Only a small mistake: using the term "global warming" is little outdated, and also there's still no scientific evidence of human cause of the climate change.


    Uh... What? There's heaps that we are a significant factor... The correct term is "climate change" though. It's not even debated in the academic community anymore, since its so overwhelming.

    This article makes sense. Back in the days of Pangea, the Canadian arctic was equatorial. Anything could be anywhere, if you look back far enough. What is impressive is that the remains were preserved for so long.
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    Mar 06, 2013 7:17 PM GMT
    Medjai said
    klobasnik saidInteresting read. Fascinating to imagine an animal like that.

    Only a small mistake: using the term "global warming" is little outdated, and also there's still no scientific evidence of human cause of the climate change.


    Uh... What? There's heaps that we are a significant factor... The correct term is "climate change" though. It's not even debated in the academic community anymore, since its so overwhelming.

    This article makes sense. Back in the days of Pangea, the Canadian arctic was equatorial. Anything could be anywhere, if you look back far enough. What is impressive is that the remains were preserved for so long.


    Yeah, the remains are fascinating, I mean they look like wood, I wouldn't be able to differentiate them from some fossil wood.

    Maybe I'm wrong about the scientific evidence of the human cause, I wasn't watching the theme that closely. If you have anything specific in mind (the evidence), please share. Because the last time I heard about any was when in 2009 they revealed that the hockey curve was faked. But as I say I might haven't heard about the new ones.
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    Mar 06, 2013 7:34 PM GMT
    Oh, really ! Does this mean we are now allowe to believe that the fossil record shows climate change without man's intervention?

    Environmentalists are the new religious fundamentalist.
  • heyom

    Posts: 389

    Mar 06, 2013 8:32 PM GMT
    klobasnik said
    Medjai said
    klobasnik saidInteresting read. Fascinating to imagine an animal like that.

    Only a small mistake: using the term "global warming" is little outdated, and also there's still no scientific evidence of human cause of the climate change.


    Uh... What? There's heaps that we are a significant factor... The correct term is "climate change" though. It's not even debated in the academic community anymore, since its so overwhelming.

    This article makes sense. Back in the days of Pangea, the Canadian arctic was equatorial. Anything could be anywhere, if you look back far enough. What is impressive is that the remains were preserved for so long.


    Yeah, the remains are fascinating, I mean they look like wood, I wouldn't be able to differentiate them from some fossil wood.

    Maybe I'm wrong about the scientific evidence of the human cause, I wasn't watching the theme that closely. If you have anything specific in mind (the evidence), please share. Because the last time I heard about any was when in 2009 they revealed that the hockey curve was faked. But as I say I might haven't heard about the new ones.


    Most science is overwhelmingly in favour of man-made climate change at this point. I have seen a handful of studies still disputing it, but that is perhaps less than 1% of the total output, and that is consistent with most scientific research, where at least 5% of studies will show an alternative conclusion/result as compared to the others. Because of those statistical anomalies, they tend to be the ones that get discussed though more quickly (a case of the outlier getting all the attention when the majority who is in agreement simply stays silent as it does not need to scream for attention, shall we say). So yes, climate change being man-made or not in the mainstream scientific circles is most certainly a moot point, with the few outliers being considered just that: outliers, which by the shear fact of being exceptions, are considered to be acknowledging the rule. (The exception confirms the rule: if the rule were not the rule, the exceptions would not be in the minority, shall we say).
  • heyom

    Posts: 389

    Mar 06, 2013 8:36 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidOh, really ! Does this mean we are now allowe to believe that the fossil record shows climate change without man's intervention?
    .


    Obviously, there is climate change with plant intervention, animal intervention, cyanobacterial intervention etc. etc. etc. Living matter influences the climate, this too is not an exception in scientific studies and thus not an issue at all in the scientific debates anymore.

    If they were religious fundamentalists, they wouldn't be quoting that scientific data, but scriptural ones.


    Here's an example of living matter influencing climate: the world was once hotter with no oxygen, living matter produced the oxygen which caused the climate to shift:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geological_history_of_oxygen
  • heyom

    Posts: 389

    Mar 06, 2013 8:39 PM GMT
    Medjai said
    This article makes sense. Back in the days of Pangea, the Canadian arctic was equatorial. Anything could be anywhere, if you look back far enough. What is impressive is that the remains were preserved for so long.


    Especially interesting to consider that in most of earth's history, the entire planet was ice-free...

    For much of Earth's history, the world has been ice-free (even at the poles) but these iceless periods have been interrupted by several major glaciation periods

    http://www.lakepowell.net/sciencecenter/paleoclimate.htm


    And that at some point in it's history, it was totally covered in ice:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_Earth

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    Mar 06, 2013 9:20 PM GMT
    It sounded better when I thought the post said; "Giant ancient caramel remains discovered in Canadian Arctic."
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    Mar 06, 2013 9:39 PM GMT
    Maybe it's just the filtration of data through nooz reporters, but I can't figure out what is supposed to be of particular significance in this. Pliestocene and Neogene camel fossils are well known from all over north america. They only died out about 10,000 years ago. Extinction possibly related to the introduction of modern humans.
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    Mar 06, 2013 9:43 PM GMT
    FranciscoC saidIt sounded better when I thought the post said; "Giant ancient caramel remains discovered in Canadian Arctic."


    +1

    Also, I want to hug it! =D
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    Mar 06, 2013 11:27 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidOh, really ! Does this mean we are now allowe to believe that the fossil record shows climate change without man's intervention?

    Environmentalists are the new religious fundamentalist.


    You must know this is a non sequitur. What environmentalist said that ancient climate change was caused by man? Surely you're not this stupid.
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    Mar 06, 2013 11:29 PM GMT
    klobasnik saidMaybe I'm wrong about the scientific evidence of the human cause, I wasn't watching the theme that closely. If you have anything specific in mind (the evidence), please share. Because the last time I heard about any was when in 2009 they revealed that the hockey curve was faked. But as I say I might haven't heard about the new ones.


    Please tell me who "they" are that revealed that the hockey curve was faked. "They" (of the scientific community) made no such revelation. If you have evidence that it was faked, please share.
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    Mar 06, 2013 11:45 PM GMT
    Ariodante said
    FranciscoC saidIt sounded better when I thought the post said; "Giant ancient caramel remains discovered in Canadian Arctic."


    +1

    Also, I want to hug it! =D


    THIS
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    Mar 06, 2013 11:47 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidOh, really ! Does this mean we are now allowe to believe that the fossil record shows climate change without man's intervention?

    Environmentalists are the new religious fundamentalist.


    Except the Earth takes thousands of years to make a climate change when it does it naturally. Humans take decades.
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Mar 07, 2013 9:56 PM GMT
    Palaeontology is the most fascinating of subjects, given its enormous range in space and time....Apparently, the large, flat feet of camels are equally good in snow as sand!

    From what I`ve read on the subject, the earth`s climate has changed drastically and quickly ie in a few decades many times in the past, especially during Ice Ages.


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    Mar 08, 2013 9:21 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    klobasnik saidMaybe I'm wrong about the scientific evidence of the human cause, I wasn't watching the theme that closely. If you have anything specific in mind (the evidence), please share. Because the last time I heard about any was when in 2009 they revealed that the hockey curve was faked. But as I say I might haven't heard about the new ones.


    Please tell me who "they" are that revealed that the hockey curve was faked. "They" (of the scientific community) made no such revelation. If you have evidence that it was faked, please share.


    I don't remember it very well, but I'm sure there's written something about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy

    also as the post above me says, the climate change is present here since the Earth exists, I'm not saying that human race shouldn't watch their actions, I'm just saying that human activity has probably very minor effect on what's actually happening to the planet, the planet is here for us, if it changes to serve us better it's only good, as long as it won't ruin it

    we are in an interglacial period, so it's only natural that the climate changes