Conflicted with Carbs - Help Appreciated

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 11, 2013 3:34 PM GMT
    Hey all. Maybe I think about this a little too much but I want to make a decision for the next year or so regarding my diet and could really use some quality opinion. I think what frustrates me the most is nothing works the same for everyone, and so there are answers from every perspective. But I still want to hear what you have to say. So here goes:

    I'm currently gaining weight and have gained 15 lbs since October. I take in around 3500 calories/day and will up the calories to 4k soon. I workout in the mornings and have a very dense-calorie breakfast (post-workout) which includes grainy carbs. The rest of the day I avoid grains and starchy carbs but eat as many leafy and fibrous veggies that come my way. The goal is to continue gaining but keep as much definition as possible without adding excess fat.

    The conflict: online bodybuilders say to eat more carbs... But can't you gain without the extra softness? I eat the carbs when I need them, and then stick to veggies the rest of the meals. I have noticed my diet is making up for calories by taking in more fats (olive oil, almonds, avocado, cheese, peanut butter) since I'm not eating the breads. On some days, fats have been around 50% of my calories. I don't look bad actually, but I could look better without the extra pinch of fat in the belly. Plus I just want to make good habits.

    Is that necessarily a bad thing? Would I be better off eating some carbs (sweet potatos, quinoa, brown rice) throughout the day so that I can cut back on fats? I just want to look good in the end, and I'm not sure if avoiding carbs is necessarily a good thing. I don't need to be super cut, but I'd definitely like my abs to show a bit more. I'm willing to just continue avoiding carbs but eat more protein / less fats.

    Thanks for the help! FYI: 25 y/o, 160 lbs (gaining), 5'10" Male - 5 gym workouts/week, 1-2 Swim workouts/week.
  • popobtc

    Posts: 74

    Mar 11, 2013 6:44 PM GMT
    First off, IMO, you are taking in a huge surplus of un-needed calories. Based on your stats in you profile you should be taking in around 2500-2600 (this is a guess, use a caloric calculator)
    Glycolysis is what converts the sugars you eat into pyruvate which releases energy for you to use throughout the day. The body has preferred sources of sugars that it will consume first because they’re easier to break down. These types of sugars come from carbohydrates and any excess that are not needed are stored as fat. If the body runs out of carbohydrates from your diet it will consume the storage of fat. Once your body has depleted your fat stores it will as a last resort breakdown muscle and convert that to use as energy.
    Therefor if you want to lose body fat, a no carb diet will result in the use of body fat as the primary energy source; which is probably what you want to be aiming for. Consuming foods with fat (containing HDL cholesterol, good fats) will replace the calorie deficit left from not consuming carbs (like you already are). Bodybuilders eat more carbs because they consume an enormous amount of calories and do not wish to risk burning muscle.
    Hope this helps.
  • geebus

    Posts: 216

    Mar 11, 2013 11:50 PM GMT
    ^ yep.
    The first thing I thought when I read this was "holy mother, 4000 kCal"
    Yeah, even with traditional BB methods, I think you need at most 3250 a day.
    Macronutrients are macronutrients. At the end of the day, if you don't burn more than you use, then you'll store it.

    Carbs are good with protein, especially post workout. They also provide a good method for your body to clear out toxins and xenoestrogens.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Mar 12, 2013 12:51 AM GMT
    Addy23 saidHi-

    Many nutrinist suggest carbos for people who is nott left with any active fats. They need more carbos in their belly so as to maintain a proper supplement to their skinny body!
    Here in your case if you want to have flat abdomen then you must cut off rice and potatos. These two not only add fats of belly but also generates diabeties/ sugar in our body! The best would be, focus more on rich and healthy diet like, egg, milk, fresh fruits, green vegetables and "plenty of water". Water is just the perfect solution for everything. It works as a refresher to our body and mind and repairs all internal issues. Here- it will burn your fats too!

    Keep exercising!


    I eat rice and potatoes. Check my photos; does it look as though it has gone to my belly?

    Vegetables are mostly carbohydrates.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Mar 12, 2013 1:15 AM GMT
    Oh my god, what is going on with RJ lately? It seems like people are crawling out of the woodwork with misinformation born of regurgitating jargon they don't fully understand, resulting in net terrible advice.

    I know it happens sometimes, but its been such a concentrated dose these past few days. Is there a convention or something?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 12, 2013 1:28 AM GMT
    Wheat is poison. Eliminate it from your diet before it kills you slowly and painfully.

    Google: "Amylopectin A", "Gliadin", and "Wheat Germ Agglutnin Intestinal Permeability" and you'll see why.

    Amylopectin A: The methamphetamine of carbohydrates. Can you say "Insulin Resistence"?

    Gliadin: The hunger that feeds itself.

    Wheat Germ Agglutnin: Nature's revenge upon animals who eat wheat. Nothing like breaking down the barrier between your blood and carcinogenic shit.

    Let the flame-war begin!
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Mar 12, 2013 1:35 AM GMT
    Just stop eating.

    Whatever food is being considered, someone will assert that no one should ever eat it. Either it is poisonous, will damage the arteries, make you fat, emulate estrogen, cause hypertension, or something.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 12, 2013 2:39 AM GMT
    FRE0 saidJust stop eating.

    Whatever food is being considered, someone will assert that no one should ever eat it. Either it is poisonous, will damage the arteries, make you fat, emulate estrogen, cause hypertension, or something.


    THIS!!!!!

    icon_lol.gif
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    Mar 13, 2013 4:32 AM GMT
    popobtc saidFirst off, IMO, you are taking in a huge surplus of un-needed calories. Based on your stats in you profile you should be taking in around 2500-2600 (this is a guess, use a caloric calculator)


    2500 is way too low for me. In fact I was eating 3K and I capped at 160lbs. With my metabolism and activity I needed to up the count so that I could keep gaining size. I do think I won't go any more than 4k. I've only just started 4k and it is that much harder. A lot of people who have a hard time gaining actually eat more than me...
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    Mar 13, 2013 4:52 AM GMT
    Delephant said
    popobtc saidFirst off, IMO, you are taking in a huge surplus of un-needed calories. Based on your stats in you profile you should be taking in around 2500-2600 (this is a guess, use a caloric calculator)


    2500 is way too low for me. In fact I was eating 3K and I capped at 160lbs. With my metabolism and activity I needed to up the count so that I could keep gaining size. I do think I won't go any more than 4k. I've only just started 4k and it is that much harder. A lot of people who have a hard time gaining actually eat more than me...


    You and I seem to be at the same level, height and weight-wise, and you're 100% right, you do need to up to 4000. I am currently 5'10" and 151 (weighed myself today), but I am on a bulk, and my macronutrients for a bulk all add up to a caloric density of 4000 calories. Unfortunately, some of us have extremely fast metabolisms, and I know I have a life that involves A LOT of walking, physical activity, and working out. At 2500-2600 the best I could do is maintain. Imagine, an average american who doesn't workout and is just that, 'average', should consume I believe 2000 calories. If you are an ectomorph, consistently workout, do cardio, have a very active lifestyle, are relatively young, etc. etc., you're going to need a lot more than that.

    Do I hit the 4000 calorie mark everyday? Hell no, it's WAY harder than I could've ever imagined, AND I buy a weight-gainer! But hey, If I get to 3500 I'm happy. Now once I get to 160lbs, I better make sure I can eat those 4K calories or I'll probably plateau again.
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    Apr 01, 2013 5:08 PM GMT
    GAMRican saidWheat is poison. Eliminate it from your diet before it kills you slowly and painfully.
    Google: "Amylopectin A", "Gliadin", and "Wheat Germ Agglutnin Intestinal Permeability" and you'll see why.
    Amylopectin A: The methamphetamine of carbohydrates. Can you say "Insulin Resistence"?
    Gliadin: The hunger that feeds itself.
    Wheat Germ Agglutnin: Nature's revenge upon animals who eat wheat. Nothing like breaking down the barrier between your blood and carcinogenic shit.


    I've been trying to find a link to why any time I introduce wheat back into my daily diet...even in small amounts leads to weight gain. I've read the Wheat Belly diet info online and it does make sense...at least in my own experience. Not all carbs are equal...that's for sure.
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    Apr 01, 2013 9:04 PM GMT
    Unintended said
    GAMRican saidWheat is poison. Eliminate it from your diet before it kills you slowly and painfully.

    Google: "Amylopectin A", "Gliadin", and "Wheat Germ Agglutnin Intestinal Permeability" and you'll see why.

    Amylopectin A: The methamphetamine of carbohydrates. Can you say "Insulin Resistence"?

    Gliadin: The hunger that feeds itself.

    Wheat Germ Agglutnin: Nature's revenge upon animals who eat wheat. Nothing like breaking down the barrier between your blood and carcinogenic shit.

    Let the flame-war begin!


    GAMRican -- did you see my post on the Mediterranean Diet? I am now convinced that wheat and perhaps other grain products are pro-inflammatory in many and therefore toxic.

    What is your opinion on rice?


    I've pretty much given up on rice as well. Again, the starch > sugar connection is my reason for limiting my consumption of rice and other starchy or sugary carbohydrates.

    I cheat a little, but only because I can. Some people have intolerance to certain foods (i.e. gluten > Celiac). I am fortunate that I don't have such a violent reaction.

    I do eat a lot of nuts and olive oil. I also eat a lot of avocados and other foods with "good fats". I don't drink at lot of anything alcoholic anymore other than water, coffee, and tea. Friday night I nursed one beer for about 2 hours watching the Sharks game at Hi-Tops. Even juices I water down to about 20-1 (a dribble of juice into a full glass of water) just for taste.

  • FlypinHigh

    Posts: 465

    Apr 01, 2013 9:18 PM GMT
    I would ignore the majority of the above. I would ignore the majority of people as well. Some people are still stuck on old info and myths.

    Figure out your calories for maintaining and then up it by 10%. See how it goes and then adjust it accordingly. The belief is you can't add more than around 2 pounds of lean mass per month if natural. So eating more doesn't necessarily mean more muscle regardless of how healthy you think you are eating. Figure out your macro requirements for your goals.

    I used this for cutting and now I will use it for bulking:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981

    It will help you figure out your calories and macros. You can pretty much eat anything as long you are hitting your macros and getting your supply of micronutrients.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 02, 2013 3:34 PM GMT
    FlypinHigh saidI would ignore the majority of the above. I would ignore the majority of people as well. Some people are still stuck on old info and myths.

    Figure out your calories for maintaining and then up it by 10%. See how it goes and then adjust it accordingly. The belief is you can't add more than around 2 pounds of lean mass per month if natural. So eating more doesn't necessarily mean more muscle regardless of how healthy you think you are eating. Figure out your macro requirements for your goals.

    I used this for cutting and now I will use it for bulking:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981

    It will help you figure out your calories and macros. You can pretty much eat anything as long you are hitting your macros and getting your supply of micronutrients.



    Thanks for this!
  • SomeSiciliano...

    Posts: 543

    Apr 02, 2013 3:56 PM GMT
    Wisdom from Mario....he agrees with FRE0

    [url][/url]
  • pelotudo87

    Posts: 225

    Apr 02, 2013 4:32 PM GMT
    FlypinHigh saidI would ignore the majority of the above. I would ignore the majority of people as well. Some people are still stuck on old info and myths.

    Figure out your calories for maintaining and then up it by 10%. See how it goes and then adjust it accordingly. The belief is you can't add more than around 2 pounds of lean mass per month if natural. So eating more doesn't necessarily mean more muscle regardless of how healthy you think you are eating. Figure out your macro requirements for your goals.

    I used this for cutting and now I will use it for bulking:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981

    It will help you figure out your calories and macros. You can pretty much eat anything as long you are hitting your macros and getting your supply of micronutrients.



    EXCELLENT link and advice, man. icon_biggrin.gif
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Apr 05, 2013 7:25 PM GMT
    Unintended saidAny excess caloric intake, regardless of the source, is stored as fat.

    - Excess carbs are stored as fat.

    - Excess proteins are stored as fat.

    - Excess fats are stored as fat.

    If you are "soft" you are simply eating too much, also indicated by going from 145 pounds in October to 160 pounds in April, which is highly unlikely to be lean muscle mass.


    When I was 22, I took up weight lifting for the first time. Within about three months, I gained almost 10 pounds and none of it was fat. Probably some people could gain 14 pounds of lean muscle in six months, but surely not everyone could.
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    Apr 05, 2013 7:40 PM GMT
    Addy23 saidHi-

    Many nutrinist suggest carbos for people who is nott left with any active fats. They need more carbos in their belly so as to maintain a proper supplement to their skinny body!
    Here in your case if you want to have flat abdomen then you must cut off rice and potatos. These two not only add fats of belly but also generates diabeties/ sugar in our body! The best would be, focus more on rich and healthy diet like, egg, milk, fresh fruits, green vegetables and "plenty of water". Water is just the perfect solution for everything. It works as a refresher to our body and mind and repairs all internal issues. Here- it will burn your fats too!

    Keep exercising!


    Where the fuck did you hear this?

    First, milk is generally terrible for a lot of reasons...saturated fat among them.

    You won't get diabetes from carbs...Period. You get type 2 from too much insulin. Type II is completely avoidable with as few a three weight bearing exercise sessions a weak.

    Eggs, are high bad cholesterol, LDL, and saturated fat. Throw the yolks out if you're gonna' eat eggs beyond three a day. Green veggies are nothing but water and cellose and provide next to no nutrition.

    Water is good for everyone.

    At 5'10 and 160#, you have a very long way to go before getting fat.

    Carbs / glucose are your body's preferred source of energy. Slow carbs are good for long workout sessions (ready fuel), and fast carbs (yes, sugar) are critical post workout. Carbs spare protein. If you do what the guy above says, you'll lose muscle mass, slow your metabolism, and your body composition will change for the worse.

    Study this yourself.
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    Apr 05, 2013 7:42 PM GMT
    FRE0 said
    Unintended saidAny excess caloric intake, regardless of the source, is stored as fat.

    - Excess carbs are stored as fat.

    - Excess proteins are stored as fat.

    - Excess fats are stored as fat.

    If you are "soft" you are simply eating too much, also indicated by going from 145 pounds in October to 160 pounds in April, which is highly unlikely to be lean muscle mass.


    When I was 22, I took up weight lifting for the first time. Within about three months, I gained almost 10 pounds and none of it was fat. Probably some people could gain 14 pounds of lean musc

    le in six months, but surely not everyone could.


    In non-trained individuals gains as high as 80%, or even more, can be seen in the initial six month of training.
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    Apr 05, 2013 7:42 PM GMT
    Unintended said
    FlypinHigh saidI would ignore the majority of the above. I would ignore the majority of people as well. Some people are still stuck on old info and myths.

    Figure out your calories for maintaining and then up it by 10%. See how it goes and then adjust it accordingly. The belief is you can't add more than around 2 pounds of lean mass per month if natural.



    Even 2 pounds of lean muscle mass per month for the average person is high.


    That is non sense. I've seen kids gain 80 pounds of muscle in five to six months. I know better.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 05, 2013 7:44 PM GMT
    About 18 calories per pound of total body weight is the new standard.

    Anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 grams per pound of that should be protein.

    The balance should be mostly carbs, except for polys and monos for good health.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 05, 2013 11:48 PM GMT
    220 / 2.2 = 100
    100 * 1.7 = 170

    2 or more for bodybuilders.


    Lol. Do the math. Lol.

    250 would be conservative in many circles but what I quoted is current standard.

    Think first.

    College athletes often have traiimg tables and macro diets with high caloric counts. Doh.
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    Apr 12, 2013 4:31 AM GMT
    Unintended saidIf you are "soft" you are simply eating too much, also indicated by going from 145 pounds in October to 160 pounds in April, which is highly unlikely to be lean muscle mass.


    I'd say I'm looking pretty good for gaining almost 20 lbs. Sure there's fat in there but it doesn't look bad. I feel like I should've been eating this much all along with all the activity I do.
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    Apr 12, 2013 4:42 AM GMT
    chuckystud said
    Unintended said
    FlypinHigh saidI would ignore the majority of the above. I would ignore the majority of people as well. Some people are still stuck on old info and myths.

    Figure out your calories for maintaining and then up it by 10%. See how it goes and then adjust it accordingly. The belief is you can't add more than around 2 pounds of lean mass per month if natural.



    Even 2 pounds of lean muscle mass per month for the average person is high.


    That is non sense. I've seen kids gain 80 pounds of muscle in five to six months. I know better.


    Even though you're exaggerating... those are "kids" as you say, bulking up with a growth spurt.

    Average people not using steroids will probably only see 5-10 pounds of muscle growth per year, less if they've been doing it for more than 2 years.