All these ridiculous prerequisites/expectations when we only make up 2-5% of society!


  • Mar 12, 2013 3:35 PM GMT
    I read with a chuckle these posts about what gay guys are looking for and all I can think is 'good luck!' - obviously most of these men are either closeted or have never been in a relationship with another gay man. The amount of hoops we have to jump through to find that 2-5% of the population that identifies as gay and male is only the beginning. Then you have mutual attraction. Then you have common interests, similar goals, 'what direction is this going', and sexual compatibility...do you have any comprehension what that whittles down to? Unless you're willing to move to a new metro area every two years, your chances of finding exactly what your'e looking for is almost impossible.

    I think that gay men who are just now coming to terms with who they are, or if their idea is to never come out, but screw around online with no intentions of ever dealing with real life gay men, is a recipe for disaster. These lines between fantasy (the guys we wish to GOD were gay but aren't, but are on gay websites everywhere) and reality (the guys who are 20 years older and 100 pounds fatter than those models) are so blurred that a lot of guys really think they're going to find this perfect guy who from the photos (who isn't gay in the first place) and then project those expectations, 100% physical, onto real gay men; and good luck finding one who looks like that. Over the many years I've been out I can count on one hand how many look like those models. It's all illusion and fantasy. It's about as realistic as believing those 'lesbians' in straight porn are lesbians in real life. They are desperate straight porn actors willing to do anything for $1000 to get their nearest drug fix/child support payment/remain on the run from whatever felony they're evading. The internet has been great but it's very misleading when we consider how few of us are really out there, versus what we imagine we will find (and things always look so much better in our minds). Meanwhile we have the developmental and emotional skills of a 7th grade girl, and yet we expect these ultra-straight acting guys to be interested in that? If you can't bring something equal or similar to the table, you are in no position to have these expectations that you yourself don't even live up to.

    Most of us can't do relationships because we have no respect for other (gay) men. So when things get rough, not only does one guy bolt in the other direction, but BOTH bolt in opposite directions. And we want to get married? We don't even ask each other's last names or ask for a second date. We're famous for taking one look at each other and then telling the other guy to fuck off and die. Yea...we have the skill set to stay together for a long time. If we don't take our relationships or dating seriously, then nobody else will. And in a way it pisses me off that the gay community media only wants to hear from either people donating money, or people getting married...nobody else...we can't air our dirty laundry because once again if you're not showing stories of perfection, affluence, privilege and over-education, then that takes away from the illusion that we 'have it all'; meanwhile there are lots of gay people with no money, no jobs, no health care, living in public housing, addicted/mental health...those in the gay community who are truly in need of some advocacy but clearly our 'advocacy' only cares about those at the very top. That's why I have nothing to do with HRC and GLBT causes anymore. Those of you who haven't come out yet...realize you are on your own - gay people don't give a shit if you end up on the streets, if you end up with HIV, if you are suicidal or anything - that's your problem and unless you have money, they don't care if you live or die. I think that's why so many gay people have left these 'progressive tolerant' places because it's a crock of rich bitches who are so into themselves that they can literally buy their way out of having to look at any GLBT person they don't deem as 'worthy' for them to be seen around.

    And we want marriage equality when most of our relationships either end the second the other guy realizes you don't have a pHd, or upon the realization that marriage means community property, and because we are so selfish, there's no way he's going to agree to that.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3525

    Mar 12, 2013 3:59 PM GMT
    someone needs a hug.
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    Mar 12, 2013 4:12 PM GMT
    I agree with the OP on a lot of points especially his comments about gay eltisim. Growing up I was always told being gay 'is the white man's affliction'. Although I know it's not an affliction I will say that the 'community' as a whole only seems to give a shit about showing support for middle class white gay males and everyone else gets the shaft.
  • PolaroidSwing...

    Posts: 1131

    Mar 12, 2013 4:29 PM GMT
    Apparition saidsomeone needs a hug.


    +1

    Also, there is no such thing as "over-education".
    Knowledge is power.
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    Mar 12, 2013 4:38 PM GMT
    Maybe true for most but not all gay men. I mean your profile seems not to ascribe to this assertion? And you are gay arent you?
    icon_smile.gif
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    Mar 12, 2013 4:46 PM GMT
    PolaroidSwinger said
    Apparition saidsomeone needs a hug.


    +1

    Also, there is no such thing as "over-education".
    Knowledge is power.



    YUP intelligence is much sexier than anything else.


    You know finding the right man or women is complicated for everyone, its not like back in the day with our parents, they saw eachother got married and thats their story.

    Well for us being such a smaller community you really dont get much of a chance to figure out who that person can be. Plus typically a lot of gays are much happier humping around rather than settling down. Lol (:
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    Mar 12, 2013 5:25 PM GMT
    I think your assumption that all gay men are 20 years and 100 lbs older than their profile is crazy.

    Yes some people are ridic, but there is a difference between saying "I'm 26 and want to date someone 29-39" and "I'm 49 looking for under 30 only".

    Of course the second is going to have a hard time with that. But the first should not marry the first person they find because we are a small population.
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    Mar 12, 2013 5:44 PM GMT
    Interestingly I just opened my iPad in a gay bar, as we're making our rounds dropping off flyers for our charity bicycle ride. We decided to get a quick snack and a drink while here. And the new owner has put up some fresh wall decorations, one of which is right across from me, and reads:

    Always Remember
    You're BRAVER
    Than You Believe
    STRONGER
    Than You Seem
    SMARTER
    Than You Think
    And Twice As
    BEAUTIFUL
    As You'd Ever
    IMAGINED

    To which I might add:

    Your Gay Prospects
    Are BETTER
    Than You Dare
    HOPE

    I've lived in some depressingly small, conservative communities, much, much smaller than Duluth, and I never lacked for gay friends and a social life. Maybe not equivalent to South Florida's gay social scene, but never went begging, either. Things are what you make of them, in this and many other ways.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Mar 12, 2013 7:23 PM GMT
    wait,
    i thought we were more like 10%
    and if guys were really honestly responding to the survey more like 40% part of the time.

    It's not even that hard getting a str8 guy into a relationship for a couple of years.
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    Mar 12, 2013 7:25 PM GMT
    as painful as it is, i actually agree with pretty much all of your rant... its not the developmental disparities, or the idealism of the gay man, (created by the internet)... but its the odds..... they are truly stacked against us....i stick with a 10% ratio of gays, potential prospects out there.... but its true.... we want it all, and frankly, its just not available....

    too add injury to insult, our society is increasingly narcissistic, depressed, addicted, abused, and people are more and more desperate for friends, mates and the like,....... take a look at the dating scene for young people right now... (20 somethings)..... its pretty sad

    as i age, i guess i need to be grateful for the wonderful guys i have met, but quietly plan on being single from here on.... sad but true.
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    Mar 12, 2013 7:29 PM GMT
    It's true, many daters have unreasonable expectations of their prospects. I think the internet makes unattainable seem possible. When we connect nearly instantaneously to someone online in Kuala Lumpur we cannot appreciate the actual distance nor can we accurately assess the cultural divisions.

    However, we are not confused as to what we want (re. marriage vs hookups). Some people want to marry, some people want to hookup. Those two subsets don't overlap very much. If gays were some sort of Borg collective, you'd have valid criticisms about what gays want from life. However, gays are a collection of millions of individuals with millions of different expectations about life. We neither want marriage nor are shirking it. WE have no opinion on the matter, because we are not Borg.
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    Mar 12, 2013 7:35 PM GMT
    icon_eek.gificon_eek.gificon_eek.gif

    What in incoherent ramble. This is what I get:

    1. I haven't met someone and I blame it on there not being enough gays.
    2. Gay guys just want to have sex, not relationships.
    3. I want someone who looks like a model and regular guys don't.
    4. Gay guys run from relationships.
    5. Rich people suck.

    I'm sorry you're frustrated with your life, but please don't overgeneralize. Your personal experiences =/= something wrong with the gay community.
  • metatextual

    Posts: 774

    Mar 12, 2013 7:52 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidFirst of all, that 2.5% is the figure that the right-wing constantly maintains. They do everything in their power to underestimate the gay community's size, and therefore importance.

    More recent polling suggests that the number is 4% of those willing to self-identify as gay. Obviously---to us, at any rate----this figure is almost certainly at least 50% too low, given the number of men on this site alone who are still defiantly inhabiting their closets. The figure also doesn't account for the men and women who may not have realized their sexuality yet, no matter if they're too young or too repressed to do so.

    It seems fairly safe to assume the number is around 6% at minimum.


    and probably 50% at gyms in large urban centresicon_razz.gif
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    Mar 12, 2013 8:09 PM GMT
    My personal view is that sexuality is like a scale, with Homosexuality at 1 and Heterosexuality at 10. Some people are strictly straight and some are strictly gay, but I think MOST are somewhere along the scale between homo and hetero.

    At least, that's how most guys seem to me...
  • MadeinMich

    Posts: 1624

    Mar 12, 2013 8:09 PM GMT
    Although he looses me in the second paragraph and looses me a little in the third paragraph I agree with most of wht the OP says. If we can't respect ourselves as a community how do we expect the government to give us equal rights. I don't even consider having a life partner anymore because the probability of finding a truly commited partner is slim.

    Having said that, as for friendships, outside of the romantic zone, I find gay men to be the most empathetic, caring, dependable people on earth when you've found a good gay friend. As a person with mainly straight friends, when I need a shoulder to cry on and understanding they always fair better than my straight friends.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Mar 12, 2013 8:38 PM GMT
    sounds like something an ugly person would say...
  • nic_m3

    Posts: 123

    Mar 12, 2013 8:48 PM GMT
    I'm going to come off like a dick but someone needs to call bullshit before your post gets out of hand. I can't stand hypocrites or people who stereotype and use that as factual information. You sound like your pissed that guys in their early 20's have expectations of dating guys in their early 20's instead of guys that are almost 40.

    For starters there are no real statistics as to a gay population. The most recent study was done over 2 years ago and was an "estimate". out of date and zero facts. The 10% thing came from a study in the 1940's.

    I agree with you to an extent about having a certain number of people to pick from and then that is narrowed down by attractiveness and things in common etc etc.

    I think for anyone finding exactly what they want is almost impossible. But were not dumb we realize this isn't a perfect world and relationships have give and take. However there is a huge difference between give and take and give "20 years and 100lbs" as you have put it.

    Personally myself and all the gay guys I know, were not looking for a PHD, billionaire and god. That's complete exaggeration. A bachelors degree, financially stable on their own without my support, athletic and in shape because they care about their health. That's reality.

    I think the "gays don't do relationships because of respect" is inaccurate. True there are a lot of gay guys that just want to hookup. But for every guy that want's to hookup there is one that want's to have a relationship. But just because they want a relationship doesn't mean you will be attracted to them or them to you.

    PS. stereotyping anyone including porn stars is stupid. Clearly you don't like it so ya shouldn't do it to someone else. I'm sure the biggest percentage of porn stars do it because they are lazy and have a nice body and don't want to get another job because its easy money and its legitimate unlike a lot of other forms of easy money.
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    Mar 12, 2013 9:27 PM GMT
    StephenOABC:

    Okay, I visited your profile. Duluth is in the house! Lake Superior is in the house! You may have been born in the year of the Wood Tiger. I was born in the year of the Water Tiger. Water nourishes Wood: Hi little Chinese bro.

    You like to run and workout. You massage people. You have nice pictures. You are open to dating men whose skin color is darker than yours. You can appreciate good writing.

    DuluthMinnesota:

    The amount of hoops we have to jump through to find that 2-5% of the population that identifies as gay and male is only the beginning.

    Unless you're willing to move to a new metro area every two years, your chances of finding exactly what your'e looking for is almost impossible.

    StephenOABC:

    We are sort of rare, aren't we.

    Duluth, if you have a group of men who do not like women, the more cooperative of the two sexes, the members of that group are not likely to do well cooperating with the sex that is less cooperative. The interpersonal skills and qualities of the cooperative sex leads to success in interpersonal cooperation.

    Basically, I agree with you and advance more reasons for your conclusions.

    Duluth:

    Meanwhile we have the developmental and emotional skills of a 7th grade girl...

    StephenOABC:

    Are homosexual/bisexual men (you can toss the "gay" label) really as cooperative as a (female) 7th grader?

    Duluth:

    Most of us can't do relationships because we have no respect for other (gay) men.

    StephenOABC:

    I disagree. Look at your reason for being as described in your astrological book of life.

    1. Look at your natal north node, where it is, and what it means.
    2. Look at your astro-carto-graphy map of the globe and find out if there are any angular beams of the solar system matrix that is preventing you from connecting with others.
    3. See if there are any square aspects that are preventing you from connecting with others. A Sun square Mars or a Mars square Moon will really weigh you down in homosexual love and feelings of homosexual love.
    4. Check out the condition of your 5th house and your 7th house. If you have Saturn in the 5th House or the 7th house, you will not be a "fun" partner to someone else. You will need to find someone who loves wisdom seekers. Saturn does not make you a youth in beautiful bloom.


    Duluth:

    And in a way it pisses me off that the gay community media only wants to hear from either people donating money, or people getting married.

    gay people don't give a shit if you end up on the streets, if you end up with HIV, if you are suicidal or anything - that's your problem and unless you have money, they don't care if you live or die.

    StephenOABC:

    Because discreet homosexual/bisexual men do not have the cooperative partnering skills for shared financial empowerment. There is a significant percentage who want to use other men as tools or receptacles (NSA FB - no strings attached F buddy).

    Homosexuality was more than that in Ancient Greece and Ancient Macedonia.

  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Mar 12, 2013 9:30 PM GMT
    I have to agree with every point you made. Gay men want to live in the "party that never ends". They basically don't want to look at the many problems in the community. I'm especially interested in poverty among LGBT's, because I'm sure it must be high. I would think a good chunk of gay men are poor to working class, but you never hear about them.

    I've always said that gay marriage was just a way to appease wealthy white gay men, and, surprise, surprise, that is mostly who fought for it. It is now up to us to fight the real struggle, to question everything about ourselves and try to form some collective sense of identity and integrity out of the ashes of a lifetime of shame and silence. Nobody said it would be easy though, and the way gay men treat eachother is a direct result of being unloved and invisible our entire lives. So it will take some time, just try to be optimistic, and you personally try to empower yourself and other gay men around you, because we all need it.
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    Mar 12, 2013 9:30 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said

    Always Remember
    You're BRAVER
    Than You Believe
    STRONGER
    Than You Seem
    SMARTER
    Than You Think
    And Twice As
    BEAUTIFUL
    As You'd Ever
    IMAGINED

    To which I might add:

    Your Gay Prospects
    Are BETTER
    Than You Dare
    HOPE



    This is a lie. Such quotes dont hold much meaning in the real world. The proof is in the pudding, if you are not getting laid or nobody seems to be interested in you, then something is wrong with you, it's either your looks or your personality or both.
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    Mar 12, 2013 9:46 PM GMT
    Your profile seems to fit the same problem you are describing.

    Here is your hug....
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    Mar 12, 2013 10:00 PM GMT
    calibro saidsounds like something an ugly person would say...


    I'm unable to appreciate your comments any more.
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    Mar 12, 2013 10:03 PM GMT
    whatever3009 said
    ART_DECO said
    Always Remember
    You're BRAVER
    Than You Believe
    STRONGER
    Than You Seem
    SMARTER
    Than You Think
    And Twice As
    BEAUTIFUL
    As You'd Ever
    IMAGINED

    To which I might add:

    Your Gay Prospects
    Are BETTER
    Than You Dare
    HOPE

    This is a lie. Such quotes dont hold much meaning in the real world. The proof is in the pudding, if you are not getting laid or nobody seems to be interested in you, then something is wrong with you, it's either your looks or your personality or both.

    In your case I'm guessing it's personality.
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    Mar 12, 2013 10:33 PM GMT
    snwbordnick

    You sound like you're pissed that guys in their early 20's have expectations of dating guys in their early 20's instead of guys that are almost 40.

    StephenOABC:

    http://www.waterbearingfish.com/j_Story_and_Values.html
    See Chinese Astrology Compatibility File - Water Tiger (Only)

    In addition to the above, I challenge you to get the book Chinese Sexual Astrology by Shelly Wu.

    Although I mentioned above the chance of fun romance based on Western Astrology's 5th house, in Chinese Astrology, some signs have a peach blossom. For the year of the Tiger person, a year of the Cat/Rabbit person could be a good peach blossom. I figured my heaven sign was water and his heaven sigh was water, we would be okay.

    He was one of my peach blossoms, the one that is one year younger than I am.

    One year younger/older has its problems too. Read what Shelly Wu has to say about Tigers and Cats.

    To provide a little more detail, I was a progressed Sun Gemini (from Taurus) and I guess he was a progressed Sun Cancer (from Gemini). Without the progressions, an Earth-Air sign partnership--a weak partnering by design.

    One time I had a boyfriend in my age range when we were in our 20s. He wouldn't jog the Central Park Reservoir with me. He wouldn't go to the health club with me. We went to the Met Museum, the Frick Collection, and Marble Collegiate Church together.

    People in the same age range don't always make the best physical activity buddies.


    Snowboardnick:

    Personally myself and all the gay guys I know, were not looking for a PHD, billionaire and god. That's complete exaggeration. A bachelors degree, financially stable on their own without my support, athletic and in shape because they care about their health. That's reality.


    StephenOABC:

    Okay, I sort of responded to this already.

    In NYC, at Baruch College, there were hundreds of 20-somethings and 30-somethings getting their 4-year degree after their 8a-5p job. So getting snobbed by the richer young adults who were lucky/blessed to get their undergraduate degree before 30 was a pissuh.

    Then, there were the 20-something corporate types who were not in school after work but were at work after work.

    Then, there were the 20-somethings who had their degrees but then couldn't be in a serious relationship because they were going for their professional degrees.

    Then, there were the 20-somethings who were slaves to the weight room.

    Then, there were the 20-somethings who weren't independent enough to go beyond being discreet.

    Snowboardnick:

    But for every guy that want's to hookup there is one that want's to have a relationship. But just because they want a relationship doesn't mean you will be attracted to them or them to you.

    StephenOABC:

    And not all guys who want a relationship need to be in a monogamous relationship. Yes: we all need someone for the holidays, for birthdays, for socializing, for conversation, but we all do not need the heterosexual model of marriage.
  • nic_m3

    Posts: 123

    Mar 12, 2013 10:56 PM GMT
    StephenOABC:

    And not all guys who want a relationship need to be in a monogamous relationship. Yes: we all need someone for the holidays, for birthdays, for socializing, for conversation, but we all do not need the heterosexual model of marriage.

    What the hell haha I don't really even know how to respond to a comment this ridiculous.

    A relationship means 2 people. if you are dating multiple people at once that's not a relationship that's a bunch of friends you sleep with.

    How messed up so you want to have all the pluses of a relationship? Having someone there for your birthday and holidays and to keep you company but outside of that fuck it? That's pretty damn immature coming from someone your age.

    And the last part is the most absurd, A because I made zero implication of this and B if I choose to be with ONE guy that I love and get married then im living a hetero marriage?

    I really cant believe I even bothered replying to this. Good luck with your uh...love life