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POLITICS ON RJ: The Difficulty Of Posting Vs. Talking Via Phone Or In Person.
HndsmKansan Posts: 3142	Oct 11, 2008 11:11 PM GMT Quote Well the political season has been an "interesting one" here on RJ. We've talked, disagreed and squabbled about a large number of topics, the Palin Govenor ranking at the top..... What I find interesting is how different it is when one of us states our position vs. talking it over in real time on the phone or in person. As some of you know, Gregg, Jockbod48 and I are very good friends and talk on the phone frequently. He is a republican and I am a democrat (no news there) and have disagreed a number of times (aggressively), but it is amazing how much different it is when we are able to talk through our views and many times agree (or our disagreements seem pretty small in the end) He has very reasonable political views and we have both agreed that our viewpoints are based on a slanted view of what may be reality in some cases. I know it can be a challenge to have someone voice commentary that seems ridiculous based on our viewpoints. I know I've recently talked about one members "views of reality" when talking politics. Too bad we can't remember some of this when name calling begins and "belittling" someone based on their democratic or republican views. I will certainly be glad when the election is over........

CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2329	Oct 11, 2008 11:37 PM GMT Quote I will be too...and I think we should all make a pact that, regardless of who wins, that we will accept it and move on and not begin the endless barrage of conspiracy theories and bitterness. This country has simply got to come together and be united. I am certainly prepared for the possibility that Obama may be our next President and, while I might not like it, I will support him 100% because I believe that is what he deserves. He won in a democracy, and now we have to make sure he succeeds. If McCain should win, I hope that others on the other side will try to do the same.
ActiveAndFit Posts: 2834	Oct 12, 2008 1:12 AM GMT Quote I can't wait for thanksgiving. I'm hungry.
jprichva Posts: 187	Oct 12, 2008 2:25 AM GMT Quote There are a number of my political opposites on here for whom I have a great deal of respect and affection, and I also hope that when this endless fucking election is over we can continue by enjoying the great many things we have in common rather than the small number of ways we differ. Also, I would like world peace. Is the swimsuit competition next?
HndsmKansan Posts: 3142	Oct 12, 2008 2:29 AM GMT Quote jprichva said Is the swimsuit competition next? I'm ready Jeff.....LOL
BlkMuscleGent Posts: 386	Oct 12, 2008 2:31 AM GMT Quote jprichva saidThere are a number of my political opposites on here for whom I have a great deal of respect and affection, and I also hope that when this endless fucking election is over we can continue by enjoying the great many things we have in common rather than the small number of ways we differ. Also, I would like world peace. Is the swimsuit competition next? It just ended--I was 2nd runner-up! But all 7 judges were republican.
ActiveAndFit Posts: 2834	Oct 12, 2008 2:37 AM GMT Quote jprichva saidTI also hope that when this endless fucking election is over we can continue by enjoying the great many things we have in common Don't worry we will still have religion to chat about. And if McCain/Palin get in .. 4 more years of really good Daily Show.
Caslon8000 Posts: 8093	Oct 12, 2008 2:49 AM GMT Quote Not me....after the election victory, I am all for grinding their bodies under the wheels of our tanks and fertilizing their corn fields with their own blood. ....
JohnG16775 Posts: 65	Oct 12, 2008 2:55 AM GMT Quote I agree with you guys. After this its the swimsuit competition, the heck with the politics. To prove it I just bought 100 shares of GM, what recession. Lets have FUN FUN FUN
Caslon8000 Posts: 8093	Oct 12, 2008 2:59 AM GMT Quote crosses...we need lots of crosses to crucify all those bastards....where are we gonna get all that wood.....these things need careful planning. ...
SILVERFOX1 Posts: 269	Oct 12, 2008 3:20 AM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ saidI will be too...and I think we should all make a pact that, regardless of who wins, that we will accept it and move on and not begin the endless barrage of conspiracy theories and bitterness. This country has simply got to come together and be united. I am certainly prepared for the possibility that Obama may be our next President and, while I might not like it, I will support him 100% because I believe that is what he deserves. He won in a democracy, and now we have to make sure he succeeds. If McCain should win, I hope that others on the other side will try to do the same. You are too sexy when you say things like this. Bravo CuriousJockAZ!!!!
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2329	Oct 12, 2008 3:31 AM GMT Quote Awwww, well, thank you...I do what I can
fluxu8 Posts: 367	Oct 12, 2008 3:46 AM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ saidI will be too...and I think we should all make a pact that, regardless of who wins, that we will accept it and move on and not begin the endless barrage of conspiracy theories and bitterness. This country has simply got to come together and be united. I am certainly prepared for the possibility that Obama may be our next President and, while I might not like it, I will support him 100% because I believe that is what he deserves. He won in a democracy, and now we have to make sure he succeeds. If McCain should win, I hope that others on the other side will try to do the same. and how do you feel about this? (vid).......I'm curious...especially based on comments you have made on other threads....
Caslon8000 Posts: 8093	Oct 12, 2008 3:50 AM GMT Quote oh, I know....we'll get the wood by tearing down all their churches and making the crosses from them....oh the delicious irony! ... and we can hang them all along the interstates, like they did in Spartacus...
fluxu8 Posts: 367	Oct 12, 2008 3:56 AM GMT Quote unfortunately, even after the election...there will still be people who think, feel, and express themselves this way. Hate is very intoxicating to some and they eat it up like candy and spew it out. A country is like a "team" and only as good as it's weakest player....here are some of our players (video above)...very sad and disturbing. More annoying, there are those who will continue to fan the flames of such talk...and then run to church on Sunday and congratulate each other about how much of fine upstanding, wonderful, godly people they are....and then they will take their hate and ignorance, set it to inspiring music, wrap it all up nice and pretty in a flag and thrill themselves with the notion that they are just so damn right and the ONLY way an American can be. I am constantly amazed.
TigerTim Posts: 930	Oct 12, 2008 4:22 AM GMT Quote A novel idea is to open your views to evidence and to be as rigorous as possible about seeking that evidence out. And to demand intellectual consistency wherever you can in your beliefs. Avoid logical fallacies. Think. Start by recognizing your own cognitive limitations, and allow for this in your evaluation of the evidence. Critical thinking is extremely rare so it would seem. But it is really the best way to improve political discussions on a medium as constrained as internet forums.
bgcat57 Posts: 1035	Oct 12, 2008 4:27 AM GMT Quote Thanks Tim! The rare voice of reason here, speaks the truth. I shall now call you The RJ Oracle.
TigerTim Posts: 930	Oct 12, 2008 4:30 AM GMT Quote Thanks bgcat.... did you paintball?!?!?
fluxu8 Posts: 367	Oct 12, 2008 4:37 AM GMT Quote in an ideal world that would be the trick....but let's face it...life, politics, religion, etc...it's all pretty subjective. Finding evidence to support any way of thinking and manipulating it to verify one's own perspective is not that much of a stretch. Politics, religion, "truth", "deception", etc., like poetry, can be interpreted in many ways, and many different conclusions can be formulated from it. So one is left to ask...in my perspective, in my expression, in my rhetoric to others...especially publicly...am I speaking with hate, if someone is "not me" does that make them wrong or invalid...or a terrorist...LOL, why am I saying what I say, and why do I need to say it the way i do. These are good questions to ask.
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2329	Oct 12, 2008 4:48 AM GMT Quote fluxu8 said and how do you feel about this? (vid).......I'm curious...especially based on comments you have made on other threads.... What am I suppose to think of it? It's ridiculous. Unfortunately, there are ignorant bigoted people everywhere among Republicans, Democrats, and Independents, so that video really is nothing but propaganda designed to paint a certain party one way, when all it really does is show a bunch of ignorant idiots who represent a very small minority with that mindset.
matt45710 Posts: 729	Oct 12, 2008 4:57 AM GMT Quote TigerTim saidThanks bgcat.... did you paintball?!?!? Yes, he did, and I have the pictures to prove it! You've got to come back here next time!
fluxu8 Posts: 367	Oct 12, 2008 5:06 AM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ said fluxu8 said and how do you feel about this? (vid).......I'm curious...especially based on comments you have made on other threads.... What am I suppose to think of it? It's ridiculous. Unfortunately, there are ignorant bigoted people everywhere among Republicans, Democrats, and Independents, so that video really is nothing but propaganda designed to paint a certain party one way, when all it really does is show a bunch of ignorant idiots who represent a very small minority with that mindset. I'm confused then....did you not refer to O'Bama as a "friend of terrorists" in another thread...painting him in and UnAmerican/pseudo terrorist light? I'm just curious. So are you saying that the video is not real? Just propaganda? Is it documentation of Republican people saying very disturbing things about other people, or do you simply negate what it is...on film.
fluxu8 Posts: 367	Oct 12, 2008 5:20 AM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ said fluxu8 said and how do you feel about this? (vid).......I'm curious...especially based on comments you have made on other threads.... What am I suppose to think of it? It's ridiculous. Unfortunately, there are ignorant bigoted people everywhere ............... I simply could not agree with you more.
fluxu8 Posts: 367	Oct 12, 2008 2:30 PM GMT Quote I'll pass you my piece of pie...I've lost my appetite. xoxo
TigerTim Posts: 930	Oct 12, 2008 2:33 PM GMT Quote fluxu8 saidin an ideal world that would be the trick....but let's face it...life, politics, religion, etc...it's all pretty subjective. Finding evidence to support any way of thinking and manipulating it to verify one's own perspective is not that much of a stretch. Politics, religion, "truth", "deception", etc., like poetry, can be interpreted in many ways, and many different conclusions can be formulated from it. "In an ideal world.." in my experience is a phrase all too often used to dismiss perfectly sensible and practical solutions for society's ills and propose whatever ill-conceived compromise the speaker has in mind. When we're spending a budget, there may not be a solution that satisfies all the constraints, and then of course a debate has to take place to prioritize those constraints. But the quality of debate is NOT a constrained quantity: we can debate at as high or low level as we like! And that means we should keep in mind ideals at all times. Deconstruction of "truth", "deception" and "religion" may make pleasant poetry, but in politics there are real effects and real consequences that cannot be excised by application of inverted commas. Rather than form an opinion and then cherry-pick evidence that appears to support it, one should look for evidence and then form an opinion. Not idealistic at all, this is a strategy that ought to seem quite mundane
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2329	Oct 12, 2008 2:58 PM GMT Quote fluxu8 said I'm confused then....did you not refer to O'Bama as a "friend of terrorists" in another thread...painting him in and UnAmerican/pseudo terrorist light? I'm just curious. So are you saying that the video is not real? Just propaganda? Is it documentation of Republican people saying very disturbing things about other people, or do you simply negate what it is...on film. I don't think I referred to Obama as a "friend of terrorists", but rather questioned his association with a known domestic terrorist. This is a very valid question that many Americans have. Obama has played this down dishonestly, minimizing it by stating that William Ayers was "Just a guy who lives in his neighborhood" when, in fact, Obama launched one of his campaigns at a breakfast in William Ayers living room. Is he friends with Ayers? Who knows. Has he been associated with him on more than one occasion? Absolutely. Is this alarming, considering Obama is someone who wants to be President of the United States. Yes, I think it sends a red flag that, at the very least, deserves some honest answers which Obama has yet to provide -- which in itself is another red flag. Regarding what you're calling "The documentation of Republican People saying very disturbing things about other people" -- yes, it's sad and disturbing but, as I stated, there are ignorant bigots within every party. If I looked hard enough on YouTube, I am sure I could find equally disturbing footage of a group of Democrats saying stupid or ignorant things. Do they represent the whole party? No. They represent themselves -- idiots!
HndsmKansan Posts: 3142	Oct 12, 2008 3:37 PM GMT Quote Well you both just emphasized my point. This thread went from "the need to clear" disagreements... to having one. I'll be glad when this election is over.
TigerTim Posts: 930	Oct 12, 2008 3:41 PM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ is committing the fallacy of negative proof, that is appealing to lack of evidence (or the lack of an answer) to support a proposition of his. We see this sort of argument introduced in many countries in connection with the label "terrorism", because there is such a taint associated with that word. The unstated assertion, that is an appeal to fear. But when you look at other politicians, the complexity of these situations becomes much clearer: Was Tony Blair a terrorist because he had meetings with the IRA? Are the politicians who constitute the Northern Irish assembly terrorists because of the Sinn Fein/IRA and Ulster Unionist/UVF connections? People ought to avoid following CuriousJockAZ's example and stop throwing mud (or rather Red Herrings) with pejorative labels like "terrorist".
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 3:43 PM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ said, "I don't think I referred to Obama as a "friend of terrorists", but rather questioned his association with a known domestic terrorist. This is a very valid question that many Americans have. Obama has played this down dishonestly, minimizing it by stating that William Ayers was "Just a guy who lives in his neighborhood" when, in fact, Obama launched one of his campaigns at a breakfast in William Ayers living room. Is he friends with Ayers? Who knows. Has he been associated with him on more than one occasion? Absolutely. Is this alarming, considering Obama is someone who wants to be President of the United States. Yes, I think it sends a red flag that, at the very least, deserves some honest answers which Obama has yet to provide -- which in itself is another red flag." Guilt by association rears its ugly head...again: HOW IRONIC! Find "some honest answers" here as provided by Obama's own campaign: http://fightthesmears.com/articles/22/ayerssmear?source=sem-pm-fts-ay-search-us&gclid=COGW-pyDopYCFRkQnQod7jXFBw
TigerTim Posts: 930	Oct 12, 2008 3:49 PM GMT Quote HndsmKansan saidWell you both just emphasized my point. This thread went from "the need to clear" disagreements... to having one. I'll be glad when this election is over. But seriously, HndsmKansan, when has online communication been much more than throwing mud and trolling? We see preposterous (and stupidly heated) arguments on RJ all the time on every sort of matter. The only way to do something about it is to change our attitude to online identity and how we communicate online! Otherwise we'll just see the same thing again and again! "Chaos and Decay in all around I see" as Milton put it. Look at all the threads that have been good on RJ --- and you'll see some repeated themes:- * Untold stories being told. * A lack of ad hominem attacks and pejorative mud-slinging. * Support for our fellow man. We can do better.
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2329	Oct 12, 2008 3:52 PM GMT Quote What you saw above in the video with Sean Hannity is yet another example of Obama surrogates NOT answering the question, deflecting it onto Ronald Reagan or anything or anyone BUT Barack Obama, and thereby dancing around the truth. Same thing goes for the link to Barack Obama's website. It tells you only what THEY want us to hear, NOT the entire TRUTH which is far more revealing than there homogenized half-truth they give you there. No one here is calling Barack Obama a terrorist. That would be silly. Now, his associations with a known terrorist, and how important that may or may not be as it would relate to him being the President of the United States is a whole other story. I find it increasingly alarming that not only Barack Obama, but every single one of his surrogates simply refuse to address the facts -- that would be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing BUT the truth -- about Barack Obama and his association with William Ayers. They are obviously afraid of something.
HndsmKansan Posts: 3142	Oct 12, 2008 3:53 PM GMT Quote TigerTim said But seriously, HndsmKansan, when has online communication been much more than throwing mud and trolling? We see preposterous (and stupidly heated) arguments on RJ all the time on every sort of matter. The only way to do something about it is to change our attitude to online identity and how we communicate online! Otherwise we'll just see the same thing again and again! I don't disagree with your assertion Tim, my point is the political threads will decrease once the election is over.... there will still be a number, but overall the "election focus" will be over.
TigerTim Posts: 930	Oct 12, 2008 3:55 PM GMT Quote It's like talking to a brick wall. I give up.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 3:57 PM GMT Quote Curious, Speaking of "red flags" what does it say of McCain's judgement on selecting Palin who is in support of a political movement to have Alaska secede from the union and the right of "30 other states" (albeit from a fringe point of view) to do the same, all in the name of religion and their disdain for America?
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2329	Oct 12, 2008 3:57 PM GMT Quote Thank you, Tim, because I have had it up to my eyeballs with your "scientific" analogies
HndsmKansan Posts: 3142	Oct 12, 2008 3:57 PM GMT Quote TigerTim saidIt's like talking to a brick wall. I give up. Perhaps if you talked in person or via the phone, you'd find your "brick wall" analogy one with a door in it.
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2329	Oct 12, 2008 3:59 PM GMT Quote coolarmydude saidCurious, Speaking of "red flags" what does it say of McCain's judgement on selecting Palin who is in support of a political movement to have Alaska secede from the union and the right of "30 other states" (albeit from a fringe point of view) to do the same, all in the name of religion and their disdain for America? When you have some bonafide evidence of this - like Palin herself supporting such a thing - please post it. This propaganda crap is nothing but that -- crap!
TigerTim Posts: 930	Oct 12, 2008 4:00 PM GMT Quote HndsmKansan said TigerTim saidIt's like talking to a brick wall. I give up. Perhaps if you talked in person or via the phone, you'd find your "brick wall" analogy one with a door in it. I certainly agree your thread is self-exemplifying.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 4:05 PM GMT Quote [quote][cite]CuriousJockAZ said[/cite]What you saw above in the video with Sean Hannity is yet another example of Obama surrogates NOT answering the question, deflecting it onto Ronald Reagan or anything or anyone BUT Barack Obama, and thereby dancing around the truth. He was making a point on how the guilt by association rhetoric is completely unfair and unbalanced. It had nothing to do with deflection. Same thing goes for the link to Barack Obama's website. It tells you only what THEY want us to hear, NOT the entire TRUTH which is far more revealing than there homogenized half-truth they give you there. Okay. Enlighten the world with whatever exclusive information YOU HAVE. Or is it that the "truth" as YOU SEE IT is more credible because it comes from the opposing side? I think that it doesn't matter to you what Obama says unless it's some admission of guilt because that is what you prefer the answer to be. No one here is calling Barack Obama a terrorist. That would be silly. Now, his associations with a known terrorist, and how important that may or may not be as it would relate to him being the President of the United States is a whole other story. I find it increasingly alarming that not only Barack Obama, but every single one of his surrogates simply refuse to address the facts -- that would be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing BUT the truth -- about Barack Obama and his association with William Ayers. They are obviously afraid of something." What did they not address as relating to the truth on the issue?
McGay Posts: 3203	Oct 12, 2008 4:10 PM GMT Quote Tim, Tim, Tim, You should know better by now than to try to use science or logic with a republican. Try phrases like "gosh, you betcha", stuff like that. Wink at them occasionally, it placates them.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 4:10 PM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ said, "When you have some bonafide evidence of this - like Palin herself supporting such a thing - please post it. This propaganda crap is nothing but that -- crap!" Your ignorance is phenomenal! I just dished you her own words and quotes of those she supports. And you call it propaganda!
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 4:13 PM GMT Quote McGay said, "You should know better by now than to try to use science or logic with a republican. Try phrases like "gosh, you betcha", stuff like that. Wink at them occasionally, it placates them." LIKE THIS:
TigerTim Posts: 930	Oct 12, 2008 4:13 PM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ saidThank you, Tim, because I have had it up to my eyeballs with your "scientific" analogies You're confusing logic and science. What I have done is exposed fundamental errors in your logic. I don't think I invoked anything scientific at all. And aside from looking more widely for examples of the attempted association of the word "terrorist" with mainstream politicians, I believe I have made no analogies. If you would like one, replace "terrorist" with "communist" and read up on Sen. McCarthy!
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2329	Oct 12, 2008 4:18 PM GMT Quote coolarmydude saidCuriousJockAZ said, "When you have some bonafide evidence of this - like Palin herself supporting such a thing - please post it. This propaganda crap is nothing but that -- crap!" Your ignorance is phenomenal! I just dished you her own words and quotes of those she supports. And you call it propaganda! You call her own words her welcoming the party to the state for their convention support? She's the Governor, of ALL people, not just some of the people. She wasn't supporting their beliefs, she was welcoming them, as governor, to the state for their convention -- sorry, but there is a difference.
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2329	Oct 12, 2008 4:24 PM GMT Quote coolarmydude said[quote]What did they not address as relating to the truth on the issue? They didn't address the same facts that they never address, nor Obama never addresses. All they say is crap like "Oh, he's just some guy who lives in my neighborhood" or "I was 8 years old when he committed those dispicable acts". He hasn't answered directly why he continued to serve on a board with an unrepentant domestic terrorist (Ayers) AFTER he knew this? Why he launched one of his early campaigns from Ayers living room? Why he had a blurb in the beginning of one of Ayers books? How he feels about the radical teachings on Ayers agenda in terms of Education? This man wants to be our President. These are valid concerns that have been asked of Obama over and over and over again. Find me some answers.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 4:26 PM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ said, "You call her own words her welcoming the party to the state for their convention support? She's the Governor, of ALL people, not just some of the people. She wasn't supporting their beliefs, she was welcoming them, as governor, to the state for their convention -- sorry, but there is a difference." Okay, wiseguy. She also attended in 1994 and 2006, both times BEFORE she was governor. How say you now? Just a word of advice, get smart on an issue before you offer illogical spin.
Caslon8000 Posts: 8093	Oct 12, 2008 4:28 PM GMT Quote ...and we could crucify the republican leadership upside down, like St. Peter...just a little something special ...
CuriousJockAZ Posts: 2329	Oct 12, 2008 4:29 PM GMT Quote Get me in her own words where she SUPPORTS anything before you act like judge, jury, and executioner and state that she does as fact. Attending an event as a guest as a city council person or mayor, or even plain old citizen does NOT necessarily mean she is supporting anything. Get smart before you ASSume to much.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 4:30 PM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ said, "He hasn't answered directly why he continued to serve on a board with an unrepentant domestic terrorist (Ayers) AFTER he knew this? Why he launched one of his early campaigns from Ayers living room? Why he had a blurb in the beginning of one of Ayers books? How he feels about the radical teachings on Ayers agenda in terms of Education? This man wants to be our President. These are valid concerns that have been asked of Obama over and over and over again. Find me some answers.[/quote] CuriousJockAZ said, "You call her own words her welcoming the party to the state for their convention support? She's the Governor, of ALL people, not just some of the people. She wasn't supporting their beliefs, she was welcoming them, as governor, to the state for their convention -- sorry, but there is a difference." ------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the contradiction of your views. It's not okay for Obama to "welcome" views of a fellow board member, but it's okay for Palin, as governor, to "welcome" views of a convention just because she was a governor of ALL people.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 4:33 PM GMT Quote Caslon7000 said, "...and we could crucify the republican leadership upside down, like St. Peter...just a little something special ... I prefer a burning at the stake a la St Joan of Arc
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 4:37 PM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ said, "Get me in her own words where she SUPPORTS anything before you act like judge, jury, and executioner and state that she does as fact. Attending an event as a guest as a city council person or mayor, or even plain old citizen does NOT necessarily mean she is supporting anything. Get smart before you ASSume to much." That's funny. You're already doing that with Obama on Ayers. You presume something sinister just because you're not satisified. But at the same time, Palin gets a pass because.... "Get me in (Obama's) own words where ()he SUPPORTS anything before you act like judge, jury, and executioner and state that ()he does as fact." ...In fact, Obama has denounced Ayers' terrorist activities.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 4:42 PM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ said, "Attending an event as a guest as a city council person or mayor, or even plain old citizen does NOT necessarily mean she is supporting anything." I'll remember the next time I'm bored, I'll go attend a Klan rally just for kicks! Better yet, the next time I find myself in a combat zone and I happen to become a POW, I'll get out of jail free with that excuse.
ActiveAndFit Posts: 2834	Oct 12, 2008 4:43 PM GMT Quote CuriousJockAZ saidYou call her own words her welcoming the party to the state for their convention support? She's the Governor, of ALL people, not just some of the people. She wasn't supporting their beliefs, she was welcoming them, as governor, to the state for their convention -- sorry, but there is a difference. She said they were doing "good work" and God bless them .. that is her supporting that party. Also I have posted numerous detailed information about the depth of Sarah's association with the Alaska Independence party. Her husband belonged to the party for many years and though now he doesn't list his party .. I am sure he still is. I think Palin and company is not truthful about her membership either .. there is a video where a major leader in the party is saying at a convention that she was a member but just used republican to get into office .. Why can't she just come clean? why can't she say she had bad judgment in choosing to be associated with such a treasonous group? http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican/index.htmlThe Palins’ un-American activities Imagine if the Obamas had hooked up with a violently anti-American group in league with the government of Iran. Oct. 7, 2008 \| “My government is my worst enemy. I’m going to fight them with any means at hand.” This was former revolutionary terrorist Bill Ayers back in his old Weather Underground days, right? Imagine what Sarah Palin is going to do with this incendiary quote as she tears into Barack Obama this week. Only one problem. The quote is from Joe Vogler, the raging anti-American who founded the Alaska Independence Party. Inconveniently for Palin, that’s the very same secessionist party that her husband, Todd, belonged to for seven years and that she sent a shout-out to as Alaska governor earlier this year. (“Keep up the good work,” Palin told AIP members. “And God bless you.”) AIP chairwoman Lynette Clark told me recently that Sarah Palin is her kind of gal. “She’s Alaskan to the bone … she sounds just like Joe Vogler.” So who are these America-haters that the Palins are pallin’ around with? Alaska First! (not America) Lions, and Tigers and Polar Bears .. OH MY!
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 4:45 PM GMT Quote It's more like, Republicans, McCains and Palins! OH MY!
McGay Posts: 3203	Oct 12, 2008 4:46 PM GMT Quote "You call her own words her welcoming the party to the state for their convention support?" Of course. If she had given the same welcome to the communist party, I'd call that support too. Combine her warm welcome with the fact that her husband is/was a member, I'd say more than supportive. I'd say that she supports the ideologies of the founder of the AIP." "Attending an event as a guest as a city council person or mayor, or even plain old citizen does NOT necessarily mean she is supporting anything." It sure does. The Mayor of New York, for example, doesn't attend the gay pride parade in spite of not supporting it. He goes, if he goes, because he supports it. If he opposes it, he stays away. Elected officials have that privilege.
coolarmydude Posts: 1072	Oct 12, 2008 4:49 PM GMT Quote It's the usual from Curious. Any time he's backed against the wall with facts that counter his political beliefs or support, his antiquated spin machine spews out desperate pleas for help. His worst day of the week is Sundays because the sources of all his talking points are out to church, praying away the gay.
fluxu8 Posts: 367	Oct 12, 2008 5:31 PM GMT Quote HndsmKansan saidWell you both just emphasized my point. This thread went from "the need to clear" disagreements... to having one. I'll be glad when this election is over. I wasn't trying to get into an argument, Chris. I was just trying to clarify, or better understand why or how a person says things rather vehemently on one thread, and then later when the "writing is on the wall" so to speak, they change their tune. I don't care if another person has different views than me, I really don't...I most certainly don't...but when the message gets scattered and contrasting...then I get confused and ask "why". That's all. I was just asking. So while you may think I am having an argument with someone, ...I'm not. I am just asking for clarification...if that incites hostility, misinterpretation, and someone feeling "challenged"...then i don't know what to say..and usually just roll my eyes and cease to speak, because there is no talking with that sort of attitude. In addition, I agree that person to person, more private, conversations have much more clarity and are not so easily misinterpreted as text. And I also agree that this is a public forum which has a different dynamic and responsibility to it. So I am not trying to "prove anyone's point"...I am simply asking for clarification. I think you will also have to agree that my questions or comments are not as "brash" or as rude to others here as some people here. If I say something "not so stellar"...it would usually ( i'm not perfect of course) have to do with a public figure...but if you read some of the above comments...you will find people calling others on here things like "ASS" and being rude AT them...which to me is ...well....rather telling.
Caslon8000 Posts: 8093	Oct 12, 2008 5:34 PM GMT Quote
Caslon8000 Posts: 8093	Oct 12, 2008 5:35 PM GMT Quote
TigerTim Posts: 930	Oct 13, 2008 3:03 AM GMT Quote And as usual, the argument put up by coolarmydude is left unanswered.... I do wonder whether this intellectual bankruptcy really can sound better on the phone?

ObsceneWish Posts: 3403	Oct 13, 2008 10:34 PM GMT Quote TigerTim saidAnd as usual, the argument put up by coolarmydude is left unanswered.... I do wonder whether this intellectual bankruptcy really can sound better on the phone? Undoubtedly. "Obama must explain his association with a known terrist, while people need to understand that Sarah Palin needs to make no explanation other than the hospitality of her office for attending a meeting of American-hating secessionists." "What are you wearing?" "A rainbow thong. I do have to admit that Obama is hotter than McCain." "Oh, I didn't know you were into peeps of color." "Well, that's what the rainbow is all about, isn't it?" "I guess we have more in common than our posts online suggest."

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