Higgs boson announcement energizes physicists - the "God Particle"

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 14, 2013 8:09 PM GMT
    http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/14/17314249-higgs-boson-announcement-energizes-physicists?lite
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    Mar 15, 2013 3:07 AM GMT
    Unless this means we're around the corner from clean/abundant renewable energy, food replicators, holodecks, teleportation technology and light speed travel...yawn.
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    Mar 15, 2013 3:20 AM GMT
    JJGreen saidUnless this means we're around the corner from clean/abundant renewable energy, food replicators, holodecks, teleportation technology and light speed travel...yawn.

    Basic science is how you get there.
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    Mar 15, 2013 4:12 AM GMT
    The only way to energize a physicist is to give him an equation that'll take him the rest of his life to figure out, and pay him well to work on it till he goes crazy and dies with dementia.
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    Mar 15, 2013 4:44 AM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    JJGreen saidUnless this means we're around the corner from clean/abundant renewable energy, food replicators, holodecks, teleportation technology and light speed travel...yawn.

    Basic science is how you get there.


    +1
  • Rhi_Bran

    Posts: 904

    Mar 16, 2013 2:45 AM GMT
    The thing about theoretical physics is that once they discover a new something, it generally takes at least a few decades if not centuries to find out how to apply it to anything practical.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Mar 16, 2013 2:46 AM GMT
    The particle was so inappropriately named. It's hardly the holy grail of particle physics...
  • Whipmagic

    Posts: 1481

    Mar 16, 2013 2:57 AM GMT
    Medjai saidThe particle was so inappropriately named. It's hardly the holy grail of particle physics...


    I disagree. It's a little difficult to explain, but let me try anyway. Most concepts in physics are scale invariant, meaning they do not determine any length, time, or mass scale in nature. Without breaking this scale invariance, nothing in nature would have any intrinsic size or mass.

    For example, classic Newtonian relativity is scale-invariant. This changed with Einstein's relativity; in that theory there is one constant that anchors everything and gives it a scale: the speed of light. That's what determines the underlying metric of the universe.

    Now, in the standard model of the elementary particles you have a similar thing: one unique constant has a mass, and that's associated with the mass of the Higgs boson. No other elementary particle has a similar distinguished role in this model. In that way, the Higgs boson sets the mass scale of the universe. And it's as fundamental or important as the speed of light.
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Mar 16, 2013 3:00 AM GMT
    Whipmagic said
    Medjai saidThe particle was so inappropriately named. It's hardly the holy grail of particle physics...


    I disagree. It's a little difficult to explain, but let me try anyway. Most concepts in physics are scale invariant, meaning they do not determine any length, time, or mass scale in nature. Without breaking this scale invariance, nothing in nature would have any intrinsic size or mass.

    For example, classic Newtonian relativity is scale-invariant. This changed with Einstein's relativity; in that theory there is one constant that anchors everything and gives it a scale: the speed of light. That's what determines the underlying metric of the universe.

    Now, in the standard model of the elementary particles you have a similar thing: one unique constant has a mass, and that's associated with the mass of the Higgs boson. No other elementary particle has a similar distinguished role in this model. In that way, the Higgs boson sets the mass scale of the universe. And it's as fundamental or important as the speed of light.


    I understand its importance. I just think the name is highly misleading
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3516

    Mar 16, 2013 5:10 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]Medjai said[
    I understand its importance. I just think the name is highly misleading[/quote]


    you dont like the name "most likely a particle that acts like a higgs boson?"


    no physicist would call it anything BUT that. That other name is completely media created and irrelevant.
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    Mar 16, 2013 5:16 AM GMT
    Apparition said


    you dont like the name "most likely a particle that acts like a higgs boson?"


    no physicist would call it anything BUT that. That other name is completely media created and irrelevant.


    Another +1
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Mar 16, 2013 5:34 AM GMT
    Apparition said[quote][cite]Medjai said[
    I understand its importance. I just think the name is highly misleading



    you dont like the name "most likely a particle that acts like a higgs boson?"


    no physicist would call it anything BUT that. That other name is completely media created and irrelevant. [/quote]

    No. I mean the title 'the god particle'.
  • Lukehiker

    Posts: 161

    Mar 16, 2013 7:10 AM GMT
    Whipmagic said
    Medjai saidThe particle was so inappropriately named. It's hardly the holy grail of particle physics...


    I disagree. It's a little difficult to explain, but let me try anyway. Most concepts in physics are scale invariant, meaning they do not determine any length, time, or mass scale in nature. Without breaking this scale invariance, nothing in nature would have any intrinsic size or mass.

    For example, classic Newtonian relativity is scale-invariant. This changed with Einstein's relativity; in that theory there is one constant that anchors everything and gives it a scale: the speed of light. That's what determines the underlying metric of the universe.

    Now, in the standard model of the elementary particles you have a similar thing: one unique constant has a mass, and that's associated with the mass of the Higgs boson. No other elementary particle has a similar distinguished role in this model. In that way, the Higgs boson sets the mass scale of the universe. And it's as fundamental or important as the speed of light.


    You are confusing something called Constant basis with Relativistic basis(not to be confused with Relativity).

    Relativistic basis is where, no matter the constant you use to determine something, the answer will fundamentally be the same; measurement for example, kilometers and miles, you can use either to measure something, but the object you measure isn't changed regardless of what type of measurement scale used.

    In Constant basis however, if you were to attempt to measure something in miles, you'd get one answer, but in kilometers, a wholly unrelated one; the means through which you derive the solution, changes the object being measured.

    Now, if you were to use any other constant, water's density for example, in place of the speed of light, the solution you get changes, as does the object you are measuring. Use any other constant, speed of sound, energy of a photon, atomic structure, and you will get numerous answers.

    The proposed reason for looking for the Higgs is to introduce another constant into play; unfortunately, the current system in use is Constant basis, where every constant is its own unique niche within physics, and overlap is rare or impossible. Yet, every theory behind the Higgs says it is a Relativistic basis particle, and therefore, must apply everywhere, without changing solutions and objects.

    Newton found the door, Einstein unlocked it, but it has yet to be opened; there is still a new level of physics that we need to identify first before we can understand this, and as counter-intuitive as it may seem, we need to look at the simplest solutions possible.

    Now the Higgs is a step in that direction, but unfortunately we aren't at a stage where we can understand its true significance yet. Its as if we are living in the 19th century and someone just handed us a laptop and told us to post on these boards.

    Labeling it the "god" particle didn't help matters either; too many are hyped up into the implied significance, and think this is more important than it may actually be.