Civility on RJ

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2013 9:12 PM GMT
    OK, so I've been wanting to post something again on the lack of civility in the political forums for a while. I engage in political discussion with my conservative coworkers, and I've never even heard anything remotely like what I read in RJ.
    Insults. Everybody does them, some more than the others. Some even encapsulate it in a pic (the pic with the poor chickens which have been represented as "liberal hens") or a catchphrase ("conservaposse"). Smart people do it (even physics professors), not so smart people do it as well (OK I won't say who isn't so smart, in keeping with the theme of this thread. icon_smile.gif ) Some will say, "Well, the other guy started it a long time ago, so I'm just reciprocating." I submit to you that's the mentality of how family feuds are started and perpetuated.
    Politics is inherently fractious. But it doesn't mean that you can't respect the person whose politics are different from yours, as long as they can fortify their position with data and logic, and you do the same. You may disagree with their data, explanations or logic, but to preface it with an insult just turns the other guy off. Whatever dialogue that ensues is just catfighting.
    Some might say this is the internet so suck it up. That's true, but unless you change people one by one, you won't change the culture. Some say it's the anonymity. Well, if it's something you wouldn't say to a person who's sitting right in front of you, why would you say it online?
    So I propose to you: think twice before you decide to insult the other person when replying to a thread.
    ---------------
    For those who think TL;DR:
    Stop the catfights! If you want to brawl, go to a bar. (Or go to the subsection "All things gay")
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    Mar 19, 2013 9:27 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidOK, so I've been wanting to post something again on the lack of civility in the political forums for a while. I engage in political discussion with my conservative coworkers, and I've never even heard anything remotely like what I read in RJ.
    Insults. Everybody does them, some more than the others. Some even encapsulate it in a pic (the pic with the poor chickens which have been represented as "liberal hens") or a catchphrase ("conservaposse"). Smart people do it (even physics professors), not so smart people do it as well (OK I won't say who isn't so smart, in keeping with the theme of this thread. icon_smile.gif ) Some will say, "Well, the other guy started it a long time ago, so I'm just reciprocating." I submit to you that's the mentality of how family feuds are started and perpetuated.
    Politics is inherently fractious. But it doesn't mean that you can't respect the person whose politics are different from yours, as long as they can fortify their position with data and logic, and you do the same. You may disagree with their data, explanations or logic, but to preface it with an insult just turns the other guy off. Whatever dialogue that ensues is just catfighting.
    Some might say this is the internet so suck it up. That's true, but unless you change people one by one, you won't change the culture. Some say it's the anonymity. Well, if it's something you wouldn't say to a person who's sitting right in front of you, why would you say it online?
    So I propose to you: think twice before you decide to insult the other person when replying to a thread.
    ---------------
    For those who think TL;DR:
    Stop the catfights! If you want to brawl, go to a bar. (Or go to the subsection "All things gay")


    Of if you want a bra go to a bar.

    However, yes, I wholeheartedly agree with your post. I tried to get this point across for the 15 years I lived in Santa Monica, and have tried diligently to make this point here in the two years I've been here. Sure I slip up and troll too. The personal insults and ad hominem attacks accomplish nothing as it only serves to harden positions to the point of no compromise. Look, we all have similar goals, wishes, hopes and dreams, but different ways of reaching forward .... together. We all want peace (or maybe a piece :-), good economy, freedom of religion or maybe from religion, freedom of/for the individual, etc. Freedon isn't free, it's a lot of work.

    I frankly think things have gotten better on RJ over the last six months or so, but I'm an incurable optimist. I hope they continue in that direction.
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    Mar 19, 2013 10:01 PM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    freedomisntfree said
    I frankly think things have gotten better on RJ over the last six months or so, but I'm an incurable optimist. I hope they continue in that direction.

    I think with a few minor exceptions you have been cordial to those who would permit you to be.


    Jeff, thanks. I really try to be .... seriously.
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    Mar 19, 2013 10:49 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 said... ("conservaposse"). ...


    Actually, I prefer the term "Conservapussies®".
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    Mar 19, 2013 11:03 PM GMT
    people troll, tbh esp the conservatives. They are not behaving in a normal, real world way, they are provoking on purpose. it´s not real.
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    Mar 19, 2013 11:04 PM GMT
    The thread title is an oxymoron. icon_lol.gif
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Mar 19, 2013 11:18 PM GMT
    I for one have developed a rather pleasant attitude in reagrds to the RealJock political forum. You see, I simply do not care what Americans do in their politics, their economy, or much of anything else these days. I am concerned for those left nehind who at least understand the destruction that is underway. These will always be my conservative brothers. Reality is however, it is your country to fuck up.

    Have fun!!
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    Mar 19, 2013 11:56 PM GMT
    Metta8 would be a good start, who has never said anything derogatory to anyone, but is currently being harassed.


    For you Q, I will curb my sense of injustice in some of what I read, and not respond.


    warm regards as always,

    -Doug

    PS bear in mind however, that response to trolling is not going to get the same forbearance.
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    Mar 19, 2013 11:57 PM GMT
    meninlove said Metta8 would be a good start, who has never said anything derogatory to anyone, but is currently being harassed.


    For you Q, I will curb my sense of injustice in some of what I read, and not respond.


    warm regards as always,

    -Doug


    For the article and its title he posted to be deliberately provocative. You must think everyone else are idiots for thinking that this was done out of innocence and not meant to be "derogatory to anyone" - or maybe that's just you.

    And point of fact, you did respond.
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    Mar 19, 2013 11:59 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    meninlove said Metta8 would be a good start, who has never said anything derogatory to anyone, but is currently being harassed.


    For you Q, I will curb my sense of injustice in some of what I read, and not respond.


    warm regards as always,

    -Doug


    For the article and its title he posted to be deliberately provocative. You must think everyone else are idiots for thinking that this was done out of innocence and not meant to be "derogatory to anyone" - or maybe that's just you.

    And point of fact, you did respond.


    Check the time stamp, Riddler, and how fitting on a topic about civility where I agreed to do so, you have immediately pounced.Take note, Q..

    ....and Q, this is an example of the trolling I was referring to : 'You must think everyone else are idiots'

    I rest my case.
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:03 AM GMT
    Compared to what it was like in the run up to the presidential election, it's like a vicar's tea party now.
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:04 AM GMT
    meninlove said
    riddler78 said
    meninlove said Metta8 would be a good start, who has never said anything derogatory to anyone, but is currently being harassed.


    For you Q, I will curb my sense of injustice in some of what I read, and not respond.


    warm regards as always,

    -Doug


    For the article and its title he posted to be deliberately provocative. You must think everyone else are idiots for thinking that this was done out of innocence and not meant to be "derogatory to anyone" - or maybe that's just you.

    And point of fact, you did respond.


    Check the time stamp, Riddler, and how fitting on a topic about civility where I agreed to do so, you have immediately pounced.Take note, Q..

    ....and Q, this is an example of the trolling I was referring to : 'You must think everyone else are idiots'

    I rest my case.


    Yes he should take note. The trolling you were referring to? You mean the kind you habitually attempt but fail at? Nevermind that you have explicitly claimed to attempt to "troll" me (whatever that means). I'll make it even more explicit for you: Do you think everyone else really is that stupid or are you really that much of a fool.
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:06 AM GMT
    OK Riddler, perhaps the point you're not getting is that Q has just made a request NOW. That's the key word here Riddler, now.

    I'm doing something NOW at Q's request. Can you?
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:06 AM GMT
    GAMRican said
    q1w2e3 said... ("conservaposse"). ...

    Actually, I prefer the term "Conservapussies®".

    I kinda liked Conservanutz® that someone used recently. I had tried Republican Robots® for a while, but the Righties all complained to Admin, like perfect little crybabies. But apparently liberal hens is OK.

    No one ever said the Right was fair & balanced. Oh, wait, that IS what they call themselves. Except no one else does. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:13 AM GMT
    meninlove said OK Riddler, perhaps the point you're not getting is that Q has just made a request NOW. That's the key word here Riddler, now.

    I'm doing something NOW at Q's request. Can you?


    The fact you haven't called out others and only those who you ideologically oppose is indicative of how sincere you are in trying to do "something NOW at Q's request".

    Further, the fact that you don't find that there is anything derogatory about metta8's deliberate post off some leftwing fringe site is also indicative of how honest you are.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:28 AM GMT
    Rule of thumb (at least for myself): treat each thread (controversial or not) as if it were a topic for a debate (not the type of name calling debate like the presidential ones), but without the referee. Ask yourself: Would you personally insult the opposing side instead of debating their ideas and data?
    Metta has his own way of posting...he just provides the topics. That's not the way I prefer, but he never posts personal insults.
    Self reflection, that's all I'm asking.
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:30 AM GMT
    GAMRican said
    q1w2e3 said... ("conservaposse"). ...


    Actually, I prefer the term "Conservapussies®".


    Looks like we're off to a great start in re the subject of civility!
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:31 AM GMT
    Aristoshark saidI don't think that the conservaposse members find the term derogatory.


    True, I've spread that term far and wide back here. I quite like it.
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:32 AM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    GAMRican said
    q1w2e3 said... ("conservaposse"). ...

    Actually, I prefer the term "Conservapussies®".

    I kinda liked Conservanutz® that someone used recently. I had tried Republican Robots® for a while, but the Righties all complained to Admin, like perfect little crybabies. But apparently liberal hens is OK.

    No one ever said the Right was fair & balanced. Oh, wait, that IS what they call themselves. Except no one else does. icon_rolleyes.gif


    What's really sweet is knowing that they all are going to suffer for at least the next four years. I have just about all of them on block/ignore, so I don't have to hear their crying and whining. I just know they're out there... gnashing their teeth.

    Schadenfreude never tasted so deliciously luscious.

    Here you go, Conservapussies®!
    Please feel free to make yourselves uncomfortable. hahaha!

    tumblr_mdvf795dTa1rylak5o1_500.jpg
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:37 AM GMT
    GAMRican, you're not helping the topic. icon_sad.gif
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    Mar 20, 2013 12:42 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    meninlove said OK Riddler, perhaps the point you're not getting is that Q has just made a request NOW. That's the key word here Riddler, now.

    I'm doing something NOW at Q's request. Can you?


    The fact you haven't called out others and only those who you ideologically oppose is indicative of how sincere you are in trying to do "something NOW at Q's request".

    Further, the fact that you don't find that there is anything derogatory about metta8's deliberate post off some leftwing fringe site is also indicative of how honest you are.


    Riddler I posted to that topic before I saw this one.

    THIS is what Q is referring to, and I'd like you to show me where Metta8 did the foillowing:

    "You may disagree with their data, explanations or logic, but to preface it with an insult just turns the other guy off. Whatever dialogue that ensues is just catfighting."

    He has not.

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    Mar 20, 2013 3:19 AM GMT
    You're wasting your time asking for civility from the left. Liberalism is an emotion-based religion, it's followers as fanatical as Charles Manson's. They have no sense of humor, except to laugh at their enemies. I would use the word "opponent", but the left sees anyone not in lock-step with them as an enemy, to be defeated at any cost. Look at our president "calling out" someone. He's supposed to be working for US, not harassing anyone. We don't have dictators here, not yet, anyway.
    I try to be civil, but any question I ask is regarded as an attack, and I don't back down, so civility on here will be quite limited most of the time.
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    Mar 20, 2013 3:37 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    meninlove said Metta8 would be a good start, who has never said anything derogatory to anyone, but is currently being harassed.


    For you Q, I will curb my sense of injustice in some of what I read, and not respond.


    warm regards as always,

    -Doug


    For the article and its title he posted to be deliberately provocative. You must think everyone else are idiots for thinking that this was done out of innocence and not meant to be "derogatory to anyone" - or maybe that's just you.

    And point of fact, you did respond.




    I find his posts interesting not "deliberately provocative". It is just a damn link to an actual story. Metta8 is Realjock's news feed, he is not making any points, or asking you to believe the story he is simply posting a link, and I repeat, a link to a news story he thought was worth sharing. Furthermore, any piece of news that is interesting can be categorized as "deliberately provocative"; buddy if you really have transfer that descriptor to the person posting the link to the story then you really must hate news.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3521

    Mar 20, 2013 3:48 AM GMT
    perhaps you americans should start using some new terminology. You dont have a LEFT a left is very different. You have an ultra far right, and a far right.

    Both of your parties are theocracy based, non-socialist, militant imperialists, with no sense at all of economic sustainability run by a handfull of ultra rich lobbyists, that base all decisions on a current account ponzi scheme heading for inter-generational war as you go bankrupt.

    Both parties support unsustainable exponential growth at the cost of possibly the entire health of the planet, have not a single shred of care for reducing current output to anywhere NEAR sustainable levels, continue to pave the planet, kill species, and fail to implement even minorly controversial* policies that in any way affect rich people. (*ie. from a non-usa view where your faux-religious based social skirmishes were completely solved with little effort decades ago uncontrovesially elsewhere).

    Both parties policies further the wage enslavement of the working class for the benefit of the few at the top, fail to deliver healthcare in any substantial way to the lower class, have an educational system that fails to educate any large numbers for the careers of the actual future that are actually needed...as opposed to those that pay well but merely hasten your bankruptcy and further erode the planet.

    You both worship at the altar of exploitation, rather than caring, and neither think (even with recent developments) that healthcare is more important than death machines and miliatry adventurism as your budgeting clearly shows.

    ---------

    These are not opinions they are just facts. From a global perspective you have almost NO policies that fall to the left of the central area of world politics, and a huge amount from both parties that are very firmly far right.

    Please stop using the world left, when it is obviously a false description.



  • GWriter

    Posts: 1446

    Mar 20, 2013 10:38 AM GMT
    I withdrew from posting about politics a while ago, but I hope this thread makes a dent. Perhaps I'll even resume! (In a nice way.)

    Btw, Aristo, thanks for showing the civil spirt and not calling Apparition a moronic douchebag. Very restrained of I you. In turn, I won't call him a semi-literate, preening fucktard.* See how civil we can be! icon_biggrin.gif


    *Anyone who uses the phrase "worship at the alter of exploitation" (and then, hilariously avers that this is "a fact, not an opinion" [what's not a fact, then? ed.] in a thread about civility has already put himself outside of civil discourse.