An Honest Question for gay Registered Republicans

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    Oct 14, 2008 12:49 AM GMT
    I have been reading a lot of the posts on here about politics lately and some things don't add up and about gay Republicans. First off, I really respect those who are willing to stand up for what they believe in on here... especially against an overwhelmingly majority. But

    "To all of those who are gay/bi and are REGISTERED REPUBLICANS--why?"

    I have no problem if you are a libritarian and vote republican, or an independent who votes republican. But how can you JOIN a party which wants to discriminate against you? Are they some moderate republicans--yes, but there are a lot of social republicans like Sally Kern (Okla-R) (state congress) who believes you are more dangerous than a terrorist.

    It's almost like joining a club in which the majority believes you are immoral and the minority will not stand up for you. Why would you want to be a part of that club? Am I saying democrats are better? no... lets leave them out for a sec. Why not declare yourself an independent, like myself. I believe both side have good ideas and neither side has all the answers.

    I know of some people who care so much about the economy and money that they don't care about anything else the "comes along with conservative politicians" That ideal makes me sick... greed has overcome human dignity/civil rights.

    "I am voting for McCain/Palin! Palin has made the ticket just conservative enough to stomach. Even if I was narrow minded enough to be a one issue voter, nothing that McCain or Palin have said or done has convinced me that they would do any more or less for Gay Rights than the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell/Defense of Marriage Act" Clinton Presidency. The lack of knowledge and experience processed by, and complete disdain for economy freedom that Obama has, makes him impossible to support."

    I found that from someone elses blog on this site. I am not sure if he is a full blown Republican or not but it is kinda of chilling. He points out something I like though--One issue voters: those that vote for a canidate based on solely ONE issue... like gay rights or the economy. However, he goes on the say that Clinton didn't do anything for or against gay rights... and McCain won't doing anything for or against gay rights.

    However, McCain does not want to see don't ask don't tell go, and he like DOMA and possibliy a constinutional Admendment to ban Gay marriage. He is very much anti-gay rights. and Palin used to be in a church which sponsored the ex-gay movemnet.- On the side Palin believes that humans and dinosuars walked on the planet at the same time together!. I learned in 3rd grade why that is false! lol

    Obama wants to get rid of don't ask don't tell... allow civil unions, and aloow gays to marry. Futhermore he supports the hate crimes bill (which McCain could and probably would veto if he became president... sorry Mathew!)

    I'm getting aggravated lol

    I guess I just son't understand why a gay person whould join the republican party. Vote Repulican .... good for you... but register as an indepenedent/libritarian.

    I'm an Independent but these are the issues I care most about:

    Education
    Science/Academia (NSA, NASA, APA, APA, AMA, IPCC)
    Keeping Welfare (possibly reforming it... but helping those who need it)
    The Environment
    College Tuition
    Gay/African-American/Women/other minorities Rights
    Responsible National Securtity
    World Image- steering away from isolationalism
    Sex-ed in schools .. includeing GLBTQ info (abstence can certainly be included... but abstinece only education is irresponible and a fairy tale)
    Gun Control
    Technology
    Stem Cell Reaseach
    MUCH more funding for Science/Academia
    Legalizeing Medicinal Marujuana

    (Note: I didn't mention "Lower taxes! No Taxes! blah blah. or the economy or big buisness/wall street.)

    PS: Was this more of a rant than a question? lol

    PSS: Sorry about the grammar... Keyboard is on the go.

    PSSS: <---is there such a thing? Sorry if I offended anyone. Prove me wrong and or teach me something about your views and i'll think you're awesome! :O)
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    Oct 15, 2008 4:57 AM GMT
    Allow me to enlighten you. The Republican party has three main wings, the Right Wing Christian Taliban (Huckabee's folks), the corporateers (Romney's folks), and us Patriots (McCain's folks).

    I consider it a tribal thing, the USA is my tribe and anyone who messes with us, I want their heads on sticks! John McCain agrees with me on this and that's why I support him. I want McCain's finger on the nuclear trigger. It will scare the crap out of Putin and Chavez and the Ayatollahs will shut Ahmadinijad right up.

    I'm also retired from the Army and in my 24 years of service, I watched Carter, and the Democrats in congress do everything they could to lose to the Soviet Union, and now these damn terrorists.

    When Clinton was president he organized a guided tour of russian officers to view our M1A1 and M1A2 tanks at Fort knox. I couldn't believe anyone would allow that. Luckily, russian tanks are still junk, like their Air Defense Systems.

    If the Democrats were patriots, I might consider them.

    To me, my country comes first. I work with "Equality Toledo and Equality Ohio" to work for the equality of the LGBT community at the State level. I think it helps out. Recently I received an emailing from Equality Ohio to send a prewritten angry letter to a republican state senator over a bill that will oppress gay/lesbian couples who wish to adopt children. I let him know that all of us aren't left wing communists and that the bill would make it more difficult for me to convert gays and lesbians to the Republican party.
    If he checks out the volunteers roster at the Toledo McCain HQ, he will find my name and also know I'm a veteran.




  • MSUBioNerd

    Posts: 1813

    Oct 15, 2008 5:18 AM GMT
    I'm not a Republican, and I don't really have the energy to get into this whole debate at the moment, but I will quickly point out one factual error on your part in this post:

    "Obama wants to get rid of don't ask don't tell... allow civil unions, and aloow [sic] gays to marry."

    Right on the first two, wrong on the last one. Obama opposes same sex unions being called marriages. (see, for instance, here) He's claimed that he would support civil unions which provide all the same rights, though in reality there are hundreds of rights which attach to things called "marriage" which do not attach to things called "civil unions", and the odds of even a President who was actually committed to the cause managing to secure all those rights while in office are vanishingly small. I'm leaning toward voting for Obama, but I don't actually believe he'll accomplish much of anything in terms of meaningful equality before the law. I've sadly come to the conclusion that I'll probably have to wait until my generation is in power to see such things happen.
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    Oct 15, 2008 5:50 AM GMT
    in before Red_Vespa.
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    Oct 15, 2008 2:26 PM GMT
    MSUBioNerd saidI'm not a Republican, and I don't really have the energy to get into this whole debate at the moment, but I will quickly point out one factual error on your part in this post:

    "Obama wants to get rid of don't ask don't tell... allow civil unions, and aloow [sic] gays to marry."

    Right on the first two, wrong on the last one. Obama opposes same sex unions being called marriages. (see, for instance, here) He's claimed that he would support civil unions which provide all the same rights, though in reality there are hundreds of rights which attach to things called "marriage" which do not attach to things called "civil unions", and the odds of even a President who was actually committed to the cause managing to secure all those rights while in office are vanishingly small. I'm leaning toward voting for Obama, but I don't actually believe he'll accomplish much of anything in terms of meaningful equality before the law. I've sadly come to the conclusion that I'll probably have to wait until my generation is in power to see such things happen.


    hmmm I know that. I don't know why I put it in though lol I think maybe I was going to say that I wouldn't be suprised if Obama agrees with marriage equality ... just now right now. Meaning... society has not yet evolved into accepting gay marriage.
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    Oct 15, 2008 2:45 PM GMT
    cjcscuba1984 said
    PSSS: <---is there such a thing?


    No, it would be PPPS, though PPS is the most anyone usually does.

    PS = postscript, from the Latin post scriptum, meaning "written after." Each additional entry gets one more P for being another "after."
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Oct 15, 2008 2:56 PM GMT
    cjcscuba1984 said
    MSUBioNerd said

    hmmm I know that. I don't know why I put it in though lol I think maybe I was going to say that I wouldn't be suprised if Obama agrees with marriage equality ... just now right now. Meaning... society has not yet evolved into accepting gay marriage.



    Obama has said however that his administration would work toward promoting social understanding and promote the eventual acceptance of gay marriage.

    How he intends to lead the country toward something he doesn't agree with is beyond me, and I think it's just him talking like a politician. Kind of like four years ago when John Kerry publicly denounced gay marriage and the week after went to a same-sex marriage in Massachusettsfor two of his friends. If you notice, Democrats cannot offer a reasonable position when questioned as to why civil unions and not civil marriages should be offered to same-sex couples. Example, John Kerry on the Meet the Press, John Edwards in the primary debate cycle, and now Barack Obama.

    The Democrats, like the Republicans, use us for their own political gain, and have found a comfortable middle ground in the policy debate that is acceptable to most Americans (as well as acceptable to the GLBT community).

    The Republicans, on the other hand, know they can get a third of the country to vote for them if they play to their hatred and fears.
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    Oct 15, 2008 3:33 PM GMT
    "To all of those who are gay/bi and are REGISTERED REPUBLICANS--why?"

    As stated by others, I'll recap: get your facts straight.

    You claim Obama supports gay marriage? Absolutely, 100% DEAD WRONG! Did you watch the debates? Even his running mate, Joe Bidden, when called out (so to speak) on the question on live national broadcast made it unequivocally clear that he and his running mate (Obama) do not support gay marriage, nor will they. "Marriage is between a man and a woman only."

    Fascinating that you can point the finger at others for supporting a party who does not support them when you're doing exactly the same. If you take the facts as stated to date on this point, BOTH parties support civil unions and "equal rights" (as they choose to define them, obviously).
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    Oct 15, 2008 3:37 PM GMT
    mj you may have been watching, but you weren't paying attention. Biden prefixed all of that with "there will be no difference between a straight and gay couple legally or constitutionally". To argue the point that he won't call it marriage is just another gulp of the repugnican kool aid. Drink up, you're practically intoxicated on the shit. To claim that the repugs support civil unions and equal rights is an out and out lie.
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    Oct 15, 2008 4:09 PM GMT
    John43620 saidAllow me to enlighten you. The Republican party has three main wings, the Right Wing Christian Taliban (Huckabee's folks), the corporateers (Romney's folks), and us Patriots (McCain's folks).


    Um, if I am not mistaken it was you who said that the people who got sub-prime mortgages and can't pay them deserve to be out on the street.

    So I guess the old saying is true: Conservatives claim to love America but they clearly hate Americans.
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    Oct 15, 2008 4:10 PM GMT
    NoNameGuy said
    John43620 saidAllow me to enlighten you. The Republican party has three main wings, the Right Wing Christian Taliban (Huckabee's folks), the corporateers (Romney's folks), and us Patriots (McCain's folks).


    Um, if I am not mistaken it was you who said that the people who got sub-prime mortgages and can't pay them deserve to be out on the street.

    So I guess the old saying is true: Conservatives may claim to love America but they clearly hate Americans.
  • NorCalJD

    Posts: 23

    Oct 15, 2008 4:24 PM GMT
    John43620 saidIf the Democrats were patriots, I might consider them.


    I really, REALLY take offense at this comment and this is one of my most fundamental complaints about the current administration and its supporters. They believe there is only one form that patriotism can take and openly label anyone that disagrees with them as unpatriotic.

    Here is the definition of patriotic from Webster's dictionary:

    Pa`tri*ot"ic, a. [Cf. F. patriotique, Gr. ? belonging to a fellow-countryman.] Inspired by patriotism; actuated by love of one's country; zealously and unselfishly devoted to the service of one's country; as, a patriotic statesman, vigilance.

    I believe that this country and the freedoms it represents are special, that the United States has been and can continue to be that shining beacon on the hill to the rest of the world. But I also believe that this country -- like all other countries and peoples -- is not perfect and that in order to be that example we must constantly strive to improve and do better and be vigilant that we are nurturing, maintaining and supporting those principles that make this country that shining beacon.

    Your statement seems to imply that because I believe we should not have invaded and occupied Iraq, that we should not have condoned torture or the mistreatment of prisoners in Iraq or elsewhere, that we should not have been eavesdropping on citizens without a warrant, that we should not have detained persons in Guantonamo Bay or elsewhere without charges being brought against them, that we should not allow the unchecked expansion of the powers of the executive branch under this or any administration and that we should not be blurring the lines between church and state that I am somehow not only less patriotic than you, but that I am unpatriotic (i.e., not patriotic at all).

    If I believe that the actions I described above are compromising the very values and principles which I believe make this country great -- make this country that shining beacon on the hill -- is it not my patriotic duty to speak out against those actions?

    I thank you for your service to the country, John, but I truly resent your implication that I am somehow not a patriot because I am a registered Democrat or because I disagree -- vehemently -- with the actions of this administration.
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    Oct 15, 2008 4:28 PM GMT
    Bravo, NorCalJD!
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    Oct 15, 2008 4:57 PM GMT
    When asking the why question people have to keep in mind many states (Connecticut for example) require a citizen to be registered with either party to vote in the primaries.

    Personally I think being a registered republican is nothing to be ashamed of, it's probably even helpful. If people ever want to change the policies of the party one way of doing it is to vote in the primaries for a more moderate candidate. Your affiliation with the group doesn't assist them getting into office anymore than if you were a registered democrat. Just don't donate any money if you don't like them.
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    Oct 15, 2008 5:08 PM GMT
    cjcscuba1984 said ... He points out something I like though--One issue voters: those that vote for a canidate based on solely ONE issue... like gay rights or the economy.

    So what's your point here? You list all your issues of interest but you have focused on a single issue of gay rights. Albeit equal rights are and should be considered a very important issue, it is not the only issue in an election. Republicans, Democrats, Independents, etc should not be judge for their affiliation based on your views of a single issue but encouraged to support the candidate that best represents the majority of their interests in the priority of their preference. It's quite obvious that discrimination is an issue with you, as you said:
    But how can you JOIN a party which wants to discriminate against you?.
    I don't think you would need to look too far to see discrimination promoted in the democratic party either, as mentioned by others here, neither, again neither, candidate supports gay marriage. But again, that is a single issue and if you have a problem with voters focusing on a single issue then your posting is contradictory in that you're asking how someone gay (although equality is NOT specifically a gay issue) can support a specific party based on a single issue. Fortunately our society and the democratic process allows each of us to determine our own priorities in life and in our society and then to support those civil servants we feel will best represent those priorities.

    And as a side note, you can use the single issue of gay right as the catalyst to promote support of the democratic party however, the last I checked the majority of the representatives currently serving you and I are democrats and I have yet to see them, in the past 4 years, formulate and pass any legislature in support of gay marriage.

    Finally, this election is a very difficult one based on many issues and whether you are a republican or a democrat is not really the issue. The parties and their primary platform have changed dramatically in the past 10 to 20 years forcing many voters into a position of actually voting on the issues. The days of "voting party line" are a thing of the past for most. I am registered to a specific party but I will NOT be voting the party line. There is NO party that represents my preference/priorities personally or for our society so the best I can do is to try and educate myself and vote for the candidates that I feel will best lead us in a fashion that is best for you and me.
  • tailgaytor

    Posts: 41

    Oct 15, 2008 5:09 PM GMT
    The gain in equal rights that will be made in the coming years will NOT be at the national level. They will come at the local and state level.

    Something as small as my local high school having a Gary Straight Alliance as one of its clubs/interest groups opens the door. The school student council voted to accept its application because it meet the criteria. When challenged by some parents, the local school board indicated it didn't see any difference from that organization and others such as the chess club or the rodeo club. Obviously a step forward.

    When the city commision rewrote its housing ordinances, sexual orientation was included in discrimination section. This was done in a college community of 50,000.

    The state voted a gay marriage ban, but I was encouraged that 35 percent voted against it.

    I have to admit our state is known for two things: The Wizard of Oz and Reverend Fred Phelps. Even when i chat with men from other countries, they always ask about Dorothy. Got to love that! Hopefully, everyone knows about Phelps. His church (mainly his family) preaches hate against homosexuals. They current picket and demonstrate at funerals of soliders who have died in the Iraq War because it is God's punishment on the U.S. for what they see as support of the homosexual life style. I suspect they have done more for the cause of gays in my state, since hate is not really a christian value.

    Other gains will be made "off the radar" of the political scene. Corporations who extend benefits and rights to domestic partners will have a competitive edge when it comes acquiring workers or professionals so others will eventually follow the trend. So it is economics which will drive the change. And if we shop and support gay and gay friendly businesses then we are supporting our briefs every day. Gents, it is the power of the dollar, now isn't it, whether right or wrong?
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    Oct 15, 2008 5:25 PM GMT
    NoNameGuy, Yes, I said that. It is still my sentiment too. Those multitude who took out loans for a home they couldn't afford in the first place should be out on the street. It's absolutely criminal to meltdown the economies of western civilization over a social agenda.

    I do have sympathy for those who lost their jobs or suffered some financial catastrophe. The Democratic party is to blame for most of these financial catastrophes. They've done everything they could to run business overseas, drive up health care costs and run up the price of energy.

    Electing a Democrat is like thanking your robber for a job well done and then begging for some of the money back.

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    Oct 15, 2008 5:40 PM GMT
    John43620 saidNoNameGuy, Yes, I said that. It is still my sentiment too. Those multitude who took out loans for a home they couldn't afford in the first place should be out on the street. It's absolutely criminal to meltdown the economies of western civilization over a social agenda.

    I do have sympathy for those who lost their jobs or suffered some financial catastrophe. The Democratic party is to blame for most of these financial catastrophes. They've done everything they could to run business overseas, drive up health care costs and run up the price of energy.

    Electing a Democrat is like thanking your robber for a job well done and then begging for some of the money back.



    Democrats are so busy cleaning up Republican messes that there's little time for anything else. And, not for nothing, but the antics of McCain supporters at the recent rallies show the average patriot to be a total douchebag.
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    Oct 15, 2008 5:59 PM GMT
    eb925guy: I think you may have misunderstood me and/or i was not clear enough in my post. I am not a one issue voter... which is why election season is so hard for me. Sometimes I feel the need to vote against the progression of gay rights for what I percieve to be "best" for the country as a whole... and not just me. Mind you, I don't get everything right when voting because it is hard to determine what is truth and false--mud-slinging has gotten bad.

    The overall purpose of this post was to find out why people call themselves republican, support the party wholeheartedly, and/or donate money to the GOP. I wanted to know why a gay/bi person would do such a thing. Or how they can be a part of a party in which the majoriety of its members disrespects them (at the very least...)

    I know democrats are discriminatory as well.... Rev Fred Phelps is a Democrat! However, the number of republicans who are discriminators... far outweighs the number of discriminating democrats.

    And once again... I am not a democrat. I am an independent... or rather belong to no party.
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    Oct 15, 2008 6:05 PM GMT
    I'm voting McCain. Becuase I think he will do a better job. Neither Obama or McCain will give us our full rights so why are you fixating on that. I dunno . I'm still up in the air about a few things, like McCain's health Insurance proposal... but I want someone who will do what he says and not flip flop back and forth like Obama.
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    Oct 15, 2008 6:09 PM GMT
    John43620 saidNoNameGuy, Yes, I said that. It is still my sentiment too. Those multitude who took out loans for a home they couldn't afford in the first place should be out on the street. It's absolutely criminal to meltdown the economies of western civilization over a social agenda.


    I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but John, I've had it up to HERE with your bullshit, twisted, hateful attitude. You're no better than the fascist, right-wing zealot morons that attend the Palin rallies, and quite honestly, and I've never felt this toward anyone else before (because I've been there), but I sincerely hope you contract AIDS and end up living in a rusted-out car on the streets. It's just what you deserve for your callous selfishness and indifference to not only your fellow Gays, but everyone else who has the poor fortune to be not as perfect as you.

    Then all the people who think like you will pass you by and ignore you, the health care system will abandon you, and other right-wingnuts will give you a taste of your own hatred.
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    Oct 15, 2008 6:43 PM GMT
    cjcscuba1984 said
    "To all of those who are gay/bi and are REGISTERED REPUBLICANS--why?"

    I know of some people who care so much about the economy and money that they don't care about anything else the "comes along with conservative politicians" That ideal makes me sick... greed has overcome human dignity/civil rights.


    You, Scuba, have answered your own question---partially.

    In addition to the obscenely greedy, there's also those blinded by fear---the isolationist xenophobes---and those inculcated to never question their government---the so-called 'true' patriots.

    Notice how the faithfully blind Rebublicans have no problem dribbling what they've been trained to, while the equally vocal---and ostensibly better educated---Republicans of the business-minded inclination---the defenders of free market capitalism ├╝ber alles---have completely ignored this particular question of yours (thus far). They're the ones that never answer directly, thoroughly unable to admit that their lust for money ranks higher than the common weal of their countrymen.
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    Oct 15, 2008 6:54 PM GMT
    zeebyaboi said but I sincerely hope you contract AIDS and end up living in a rusted-out car on the streets.

    Yep, you're gonna get flamed.

    Too many times do politics get out of hand here on these forums. Arguments always sound better when they are not in caps and don't just attack the person.
    icon_neutral.gif
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Oct 15, 2008 7:07 PM GMT
    John43620 saidThe Democratic party is to blame for most of these financial catastrophes. They've done everything they could to run business overseas, drive up health care costs and run up the price of energy.

    Electing a Democrat is like thanking your robber for a job well done and then begging for some of the money back.



    Errr.... icon_confused.gif

    Like... Earth to John?
    Should I introduce you to Mr Phil Gram?
    The ENRON cronies?
    the K Street project?

    Who do you think has been giving the corporations their welfare for the last 2 decades
    Trickle down ... Reaganomics???

    Time for you to crawl out from that rock a little more often

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    Oct 15, 2008 7:13 PM GMT
    Pinny said
    zeebyaboi said but I sincerely hope you contract AIDS and end up living in a rusted-out car on the streets.

    Yep, you're gonna get flamed.
    And well you should, there's no room in any society for a comment like that. No matter how angry someone makes you, and trust me I've read a LOT of the disrespectful, inconsiderate, selfish comments regarding, republicans, Christians, bisexuals, closeted and non-pictured guys on here and had plenty of constraint to keep from lowering myself to their level, wishing anyone an ill fate like that is wrong. Intolerability is exactly what the entire gay community strives against. You don't have to like him, but you should be civil and at least respect that he differs from you.