So I watched these two documentaries and...

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    Mar 27, 2013 6:04 AM GMT
    I think what I learned from them might help the next time any of you need to explain to a bigot why their religion is not only false but that their belief that homosexuality is condemned is complete bullshit.

    One was about the history of Christianity and these 12 scholars of biblical studies from some of the top universities in the USA basically explained that the bible is mostly untrue and that the people who wrote the original gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) that were included in the final version of the new testament all skewed the story to a perspective that would promote their political agenda.
    Not only that, but there are dozens and dozens of gospels that were left out of the final version of the new testament because the stories they told were all inconsistent. Not even the four chosen gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) are completely consistent with each other.
    This sounds to me like Christianity is based on absolute bollocks and that nothing in the bible should be taken seriously.
    As for the old testament, Jesus apparently (according to Christians I have spoken to) said that you don't have to follow the rules that were put in place in the old testament except for the ten commandments. Do the ten commandments mention anything about homosexuality? No.


    As for the second documentary, it was talking to a few cosmologists who have made groundbreaking discoveries about the way the universe works.
    I found out that there is actually solid evidence that the big bang actually happened, so there goes the "it's just a theory" argument. Besides, if a Christian asks "well where did the universe come from?" just ask them "well where did god come from?"
    They'll say that the bible tells them that god is eternal and whatever the fuck else, but you can just reply that scientists are working towards learning where the universe actually began and that their whole "the bible says so" argument is illegitimate because the biblical scholars already proved that it's mostly falsehood.
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    Mar 27, 2013 6:10 AM GMT
    Do you know where in the Bible it says "you don't have to follow the rules that were out in in place in the old testament except for the Ten Commandments"?
    I kinda want to quote it, if it's actually in there.
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    Mar 27, 2013 6:11 AM GMT
    Yes, I hate to admit it, and it really hurt me to finally acknowledge that there is no God. And it was very scary knowing that there is no almighty to guide my destiny to green pastures. But it is also liberating.

    It all started when I went looking for archaeological evidence of things like the great flood and Joshua's lost day, and I found NONE.

    Then I started to discover that even Rome itself had no documents of Jesus during that time period. Painful but true . . .

    And yes, there is much evidence for the Big Bang. Scientist are even starting to create logical theories for what happened BEFORE the big bang.
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    Mar 27, 2013 6:13 AM GMT
    Slim2010 saidDo you know where in the Bible it says "you don't have to follow the rules that were out in in place in the old testament except for the Ten Commandments"?
    I kinda want to quote it, if it's actually in there.
    I'm not sure but I could ask this crazy christian guy that I always debate with because when I ask him about stuff he always has URLs out the butthole to provide as "evidence".
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    Mar 27, 2013 6:17 AM GMT
    AtlasHarper saidYes, I hate to admit it, and it really hurt me to finally acknowledge that there is no God. And it was very scary knowing that there is no almighty to guide my destiny to green pastures. But it is also liberating.
    [info cut for length]
    I really don't understand why people have this seemingly innate fear of there being literally nothing after you die. Maybe it's because I have clinical depression and for years wanted to kill myself but I just think it's no big deal.

    That other stuff is good to know though, I'll have to look into it more.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Mar 27, 2013 2:54 PM GMT
    Slim2010 saidDo you know where in the Bible it says "you don't have to follow the rules that were out in in place in the old testament except for the Ten Commandments"?
    I kinda want to quote it, if it's actually in there.

    Ya, me, too. But one thing you can say that is true (if any of it is, which I doubt) is that the Jesus legend does have him proclaiming a "new covenant" which logically replaced the "old covenant." The most backward Baptist churches like to name themselves "New Covenant Baptist."
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    Mar 27, 2013 3:22 PM GMT
    Sounds like your Christian documentary had an ax to grind, thereby making it not so legit. I do not believe in God, but am tired of all the bigotry against all of Christianity simply because some aspects of Christianity promote bigotry. Responding to bigotry with bigotry just makes one the thing one is against.
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    Mar 27, 2013 3:34 PM GMT
    Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's!

    In another words, religion is a man made thing and you should not stress about trying to make some correlation between it and faith in a supreme being.
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    Mar 27, 2013 3:37 PM GMT
    Slim2010 saidDo you know where in the Bible it says "you don't have to follow the rules that were out in in place in the old testament except for the Ten Commandments"?
    I kinda want to quote it, if it's actually in there.


    It has to do with the new covenant under Jesus replacing the old one made with Moses.

    Jeremiah 31:31-34 ESV

    “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”


    Hebrews 8:13 King James Version (KJV)

    13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Mar 27, 2013 3:56 PM GMT
    You can't argue with bigots using either logic or science. Matthew Vine's review of what the Bible is actually saying about homosexuality is the best I've seen on the subject. He identifies as both gay and Christian and, through a contextual analysis of scripture, is presenting the idea that the accepted Christian views on homosexuality are the result of not fully understanding what is being said in the (only) six places it is even remotely referenced. I think he has very valid points that *might* sway a few to at least reconsider the accepted view. However, Christians are going to believe what their ministers tell them to believe and those beliefs are dictated by the seminaries they come from so, until their ideas change, nothing will change. The Catholic church will never change in regards to homosexuality or, if it ever does, it won't be anytime in the foreseeable future.

    As for science, from a fundamentalist's perspective it is "the work of Satin" and that's all there is to it. "Satin," is the joker in their deck because he is a trickster and anything that can be seen as reducing established faith or belief comes from this 'evil'. Apparently some people are psychologically ill prepared to comprehend a universe that does not have a supernatural component.

    That said, I personally believe the universe is far more complex than even science knows.

    For me the most interesting questions have to do with the place of "consciousness" in all this. Lets say the big bang theory is correct and the universe began at one point in time and will end at another point in time. Now that scale of time is so immense it is, to us, unfathomable. Even the age of our own solar system, much less our galaxy, is 'unfathomable'. Yes, we can hang a number on it but that number reduces our personal experience to near zero. From that perspective we, as individuals, barely exist at all.

    Obviously subjectively that isn't the case. Our own experience of being in the world, our ability to experience not only sensory perception (limited as it is to our particular neurophysiology) also allows for things like love, grief, joy, beauty, even "enlightenment" (apparently, whatever that is), and so on. Thus "consciousness" (leaving the word undefined) has qualities that are "immaterial" in a sense (although perhaps measurable to some extent within the brain).

    Our experience of the universe, everything about our lives, is a reconstitution within the brain/mind of the human organism. For example, we do not "see" the light that physics studies. What we "see" is always the result of that light having triggered neurological responses within ourselves. Everything is like this and that, to me, is truly fascinating. If one follows this it begins to open up big questions about our existence and our possible evolution both individually and as a species.
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    Mar 28, 2013 7:41 AM GMT
    Nivek saidSounds like your Christian documentary had an ax to grind, thereby making it not so legit.
    lol, no, it didn't, they were actually trying to pander to the christian community because that's obviously who's watching a show about the bible because nobody else fucking cares but if you have even an ounce of intelligence you can put two and two together and figure out that what they were actually saying is 'we've studied the bible and there are a few parts that are based on historical fact but for the most part people just made shit up because they wanted to control the way everybody else thinks'.
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    Mar 28, 2013 7:45 AM GMT
    SkittleGangsta saidIt has to do with the new covenant under Jesus replacing the old one made with Moses.

    [quote]
    Thanks for posting that. thumbs-up.jpg