"Monogamy is Ridiculous"

  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Mar 28, 2013 8:12 PM GMT
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8SOQEitsJI&sns=fb

    Discuss ;)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 28, 2013 8:23 PM GMT
    Hmmm...well he doesn't explain my parents' generation, who married in the late 40s early fifties and for the most part stayed together for some reason. icon_wink.gif

    ...as for monogamy being ridiculous, I would say that open relationships then are just as ridiculous. icon_wink.gif
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    Mar 28, 2013 9:07 PM GMT
    I think it's more of a matter of perspective. A belief. Some people believe in monogamy and some people believe in polygamy. I could never sleep with / be in a relationship with multiple people. But I know some people could and would. Neither is ridiculous and neither is "right or wrong". Whats ridiculous is someone who agrees to a monogamous relationship if they cant keep it.
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    Mar 28, 2013 10:13 PM GMT
    XDanW saidI think it's more of a matter of perspective. A belief. Some people believe in monogamy and some people believe in polygamy. I could never sleep with / be in a relationship with multiple people. But I know some people could and would. Neither is ridiculous and neither is "right or wrong". Whats ridiculous is someone who agrees to a monogamous relationship if they cant keep it.


    I share the same perspective.

    With gays, there tends to be this overwhelming sense to conform in many ways to what straight people are doing so that we can be seen as "equal."

    I've been in Love twice- and dated others guys. Every single time I've been sexually "turned on" by other guys, however acting on those things is a completely different story- and when you're in love with someone, I believe that its something you will refrain from doing as much as you can, even if you do occasionally fall off the wagon. icon_smile.gif
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    Mar 28, 2013 11:50 PM GMT
    It's time that society stops seeing open relationships in such negative light.
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    Mar 29, 2013 12:27 AM GMT
    I used to find Dan Savages's column amusing and often informative until he began to push his own agendas.

    There are a lot of folks, gay and straight, that believe Dan Savage is the definitive word as far as sex and relationships. He is viewed as a Mentor / Idol / Expert when all he really is a man with an opinion, his own.

    I wish these "spokespeople" would use more "I" statements instead of blanket judgments; " I think/believe that monogamy is ridiculous" as opposed to "monogamy is ridiculous" period. It is not a matter for anyone else to decide.

    Bottom line.I believe we need to define ourselves, our lives and our relationships as we wish to live them, whether we grow. expand or change that definition, it is not for someone else to dictate. .
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    Mar 29, 2013 3:26 AM GMT
    GordHunter saidI used to find Dan Savages's column amusing and often informative until he began to push his own agendas.

    There are a lot of folks, gay and straight, that believe Dan Savage is the definitive word as far as sex and relationships. He is viewed as a Mentor / Idol / Expert when all he really is a man with an opinion, his own.

    I wish these "spokespeople" would use more "I" statements instead of blanket judgments; " I think/believe that monogamy is ridiculous" as opposed to "monogamy is ridiculous" period. It is not a matter for anyone else to decide.

    Bottom line.I believe we need to define ourselves, our lives and our relationships as we wish to live them, whether we grow. expand or change that definition, it is not for someone else to dictate. .

    Ones point carries more weight when you don't use "I" statements. It comes off more firm - more accurate or right. I always felt that, when I wrote school papers, that using "I" statements was a HUGE no-no. It came off sheepish and uncertain. Didn't have a backbone in the statement. Whether or not I could back up it up is up for debate...

    Anyway, to each his own I suppose. You wanna be in open relationships - go ahead. It'll probably bite you eventually. Humans are pretty jealous and possessive creatures along with insecure.
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    Mar 29, 2013 8:30 PM GMT
    I think you guys are missing his point and falling into the trap he is pointing out so many fall into. He is not advocated open relationships but merely saying the expectation of perfect monogamy is, in many cases, unrealistic and should not be cause for separation. It is particularly difficult in the times we live in.

    He brings up a good point though when he says we can't treat monogamy like virginity. I've know of many very stable long term relationships where are few indiscretions occurred over the course of many years. What does that make these relationships. They are not OPEN relationships but they're not perfectly monogamous either. I would say that such a couple is for the most part monogamous. That is exactly his point.
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    Mar 29, 2013 8:35 PM GMT
    friendormate saidHe brings up a good point though when he says you can't treat monogamy like virginity. I've know of many very stable long term relationships where are few indiscretions occurred over the course of many years. What does that make these relationships. They are not OPEN relationships but they're not perfectly monogamous either.


    Good point. I think the point is that it's okay to strive for monogamy (or near monogamy?) as a moral goal for your relationship but in reality it's hard to achieve and the odds are against you. As you point out, relationships that have not been perfectly monogamous (or are completely open for that matter) can often be healthier than perfectly monogamous ones. Vice versa also applies, certainly, but it illustrates that perfect monogamy does not always equal great relationship.
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    Mar 29, 2013 8:38 PM GMT
    seanp7 said
    friendormate saidHe brings up a good point though when he says you can't treat monogamy like virginity. I've know of many very stable long term relationships where are few indiscretions occurred over the course of many years. What does that make these relationships. They are not OPEN relationships but they're not perfectly monogamous either.


    Good point. I think the point is that it's okay to strive for monogamy (or near monogamy?) as a moral goal for your relationship but in reality it's hard to achieve and the odds are against you. As you point out, relationships that have not been perfectly monogamous (or are completely open for that matter) can often be healthier than perfectly monogamous ones. Vice versa also applies, certainly, but it illustrates that perfect monogamy does not always equal great relationship.


    EXACTLY. And as you were writing this I was editing what I wrote to be more clear about how I understood his comment.
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    Mar 29, 2013 8:40 PM GMT
    IMO
    Dan Savage is bitter and does not speak for me as a gay man. He's whiny.
    I will find the dude of my dreams one day and we will live happily every after. The End.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 29, 2013 8:46 PM GMT
    relationships are tough, they require a lot of work and communications. I wouldn't say that monogamy is ridiculous but it's the optimum in a relationship, that one person who can fulfill both our emotional and physical needs, wants and desires. I think this is hard to truly find but many give up complete satisfaction in one or more of these areas because they're so fulfilled in another. It's a compromise of one aspect for the benefit of having the others.

    Some couples are willing to recognize the missing satisfaction and go outside the box to try and fulfill it. Some find success and some don't.

    I personally don't see monogamy as the issue for the failure of many relationships as I do the lack of communications related to unachieved desires, fantasies and needs. There's this feeling that partners can read each others minds and therefore should know what is needed at all times. Might help if they actually told each other what turns them on and what nasty little thing they'd like to try. Instead, boredom and distance begin to create resentment and anger that leads to failure. Just talk!
  • Medjai

    Posts: 2671

    Mar 29, 2013 8:53 PM GMT
    IceBuckets said
    GordHunter saidI used to find Dan Savages's column amusing and often informative until he began to push his own agendas.

    There are a lot of folks, gay and straight, that believe Dan Savage is the definitive word as far as sex and relationships. He is viewed as a Mentor / Idol / Expert when all he really is a man with an opinion, his own.

    I wish these "spokespeople" would use more "I" statements instead of blanket judgments; " I think/believe that monogamy is ridiculous" as opposed to "monogamy is ridiculous" period. It is not a matter for anyone else to decide.

    Bottom line.I believe we need to define ourselves, our lives and our relationships as we wish to live them, whether we grow. expand or change that definition, it is not for someone else to dictate. .

    Ones point carries more weight when you don't use "I" statements. It comes off more firm - more accurate or right. I always felt that, when I wrote school papers, that using "I" statements was a HUGE no-no. It came off sheepish and uncertain. Didn't have a backbone in the statement. Whether or not I could back up it up is up for debate...

    Anyway, to each his own I suppose. You wanna be in open relationships - go ahead. It'll probably bite you eventually. Humans are pretty jealous and possessive creatures along with insecure.


    In academia, you're right, since 'I' statements remove the passive voice. However, 'I' statements are not weak. They put you in the forefront, and low you to really own an opinion.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Mar 29, 2013 8:57 PM GMT
    I find the argument that's ok to fuck around 'because it's how we are wired, it's natural' to be complete bullshit.

    We are human beings for a reason - we are self aware and have the ability to reason, choose and understand the ramifications of our decision. We master our "wiring" daily.

    If you want to be monogamous, then that is your choice and you can do it. If you don't, then that is also your choice and you can do it.

    If you need to justify your choice by saying "that's how we are supposed to be anyway" then I don't think you're mature enough to be fucking anyone.
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    Mar 29, 2013 8:58 PM GMT
    Seems more like the incapable ones believe this. I mean if that's what a couple wants in their relationship, no one should or can tell them they are wrong for being open. I personally could not do it. I would rather keep that special guy all to myself and give him the same respect.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Mar 29, 2013 9:13 PM GMT
    meninlove said Hmmm...well he doesn't explain my parents' generation, who married in the late 40s early fifties and for the most part stayed together for some reason. icon_wink.gif

    ...as for monogamy being ridiculous, I would say that open relationships then are just as ridiculous. icon_wink.gif

    My parents lived to see their 75th wedding anniversary. So far as I know, neither of them ever went outside that relationship. If that was difficult for them, I don't know about it.

    I agree with the OP regarding 'cheating' being a deal breaker in a relationship. It doesn't have to be provided there is trust and communication. There is physical monogamy and emotional monogamy. The latter trumps the former, IMO. Can there be polyamory? Possibly but I couldn't do it.
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    Mar 29, 2013 9:17 PM GMT
    He loses credibility when he makes statements like that monogamy is a modern invention. While he's right that not every society practiced monogamy, especially men, the Bible has been teaching monogamy for thousands of years. He sounded idiotic in that part.

    Personally, I don't see monogamy or the lack thereof as being the biggest issue. I think a much bigger issue is the lack of communication and honesty. It seems like we've been brought up to bury our true feelings and pretend that everything is great when it isn't. People should feel free to discuss the boundaries of sexual activities without judgement or embarrassment. If two people don't want the same level of sexual exclusivity, then they should know this early in the relationship. I think that would cut down a lot on cheating, though some would still do it because they aren't honest with themselves about what they really want.

    It seems like expressing feelings and desires is viewed as a sign of weakness. I think it takes MORE courage to say to someone "I am unhappy with this relationship" or "I want something more."

    Every relationship requires sacrifice and compromise, even open relationships. Negotiating these social contracts requires free and open communication.
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    Mar 29, 2013 9:22 PM GMT
    friendormate saidI think you guys are missing his point and falling into the trap he is pointing out so many fall into. He is not advocated open relationships but merely saying the expectation of perfect monogamy is, in many cases, unrealistic and should not be cause for separation. It is particularly difficult in the times we live in.

    An important distinction. Not all of us are built alike, and we can't judge those who have a different definition for their relationship. So long as both partners are satisfied with a given arrangement, then who am I to criticize them? If they are happy, then I am happy for them.
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    Mar 29, 2013 9:39 PM GMT
    I am monogamous because I have the power to be. I work out because I have the power to do. Much of my existence is in contradiction to my nature, because I am more than my nature.

    However, that's a millstone that I won't strap around anyone else's neck...I do this is for my own life and for the lives of those around me.
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    Mar 29, 2013 9:39 PM GMT
    DudeInNOVA saidHe loses credibility when he makes statements like that monogamy is a modern invention. While he's right that not every society practiced monogamy, especially men, the Bible has been teaching monogamy for thousands of years. He sounded idiotic in that part.


    King David put a wife's husband on the FRONT LINE of a military action to make sure he would be killed so King David could have his wife.

    Right! The bible has been teaching monogamy for thousandds of years and Savage sounds like an idiot to you on that part.
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    Mar 29, 2013 9:49 PM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    DudeInNOVA saidHe loses credibility when he makes statements like that monogamy is a modern invention. While he's right that not every society practiced monogamy, especially men, the Bible has been teaching monogamy for thousands of years. He sounded idiotic in that part.


    King David put a wife's husband on the FRONT LINE of a military action to make sure he would be killed so King David could have his wife.

    Right! The bible has been teaching monogamy for thousandds of years and Savage sounds like an idiot to you on that part.


    Not that I'm advocating either way... but the Old Testament abounds in polygamy:
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/polygamy.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Christianity

    REading comprehension FTW. Then again, most religious folk are "buffet adherents" who just pick and choose what they like out of whichever book they claim to follow, icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Mar 29, 2013 9:58 PM GMT
    DudeInNOVA saidHe loses credibility when he makes statements like that monogamy is a modern invention. While he's right that not every society practiced monogamy, especially men, the Bible has been teaching monogamy for thousands of years. He sounded idiotic in that part.


    Did every society on the globe have access to, or try to go by the teachings of, the Bible though? Of course not.

    'Modern' is a relative term and he's right when you consider ancient times, the Roman empire, etc. Those guys were humping around like rabbits.

    Also, your 'thousands of years' is a bit off when you consider full Biblical (i.e. including the New Testament) belief is well less than two thousand years old, and even still I would suggest from the 16th century onwards making monogamy, as he stated, a relatively 'modern' concept. icon_cool.gif
  • LEANDRO_NJ

    Posts: 1114

    Mar 29, 2013 10:06 PM GMT
    Not intended to the OP. My reaction towards the Dan Savage video

    The cheaters and dishonest are merely pushing the agenda for their actions to be accepted, and in taking advantage of a world with an ever increasing liberal mentality, where anything goes and nobody else matters much less their victim's saying in this! so it seems that nothing absolutely nothing is sacred anymore!? I hate to think what sector of our society is going to be next? a child's right to be or act like an adult?
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    Mar 29, 2013 10:17 PM GMT
    Whoever this ass is, he does not speak for me.

    As both George Bush and Gloria Steinem said to people in their
    audiences, "Sit down and shut up."
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    Mar 29, 2013 10:18 PM GMT
    Dan Savage doesn't speak for the rest of the gay men who are in a committed monogamous relationship. I mean, what does he know? Is he even married or dating a guy now? My view on *open relationship guy is they have their cake boyfriend already and want to screw other guys, too. Hm, I Can't be in a ltr with someone like that! The last guy who tried to pull this shit on me, I stopped talking to him, deleted his number and never call him back.