What's happened to Gay Pride...is it really all just in a good six pack?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 15, 2008 4:51 AM GMT
    Okay, I know this may sound kinda nasty and I CERTAINLY don't want anyone to take it unkindly, but is there ANYONE under on this site that isn't perfectly jacked?
    I enjoy sports and running and healthy eating as much as the next "Realjock" but COME ON, some of us (or maybe it's just me) are not blessed with the perfect body gene.
    That being said, I don't want to undermine all the hard work that all you gorgeous guys put into all your gorgeous bodies, I'm not starting a competition here, but is there anyone else out there that thinks that the gay community has become a bit too superficial for its own good? What happened to the open armed, all are welcome, peace and love gays of the 60s?

    Maybe I'm holding the gay community to too high a standard, but I always thought that we as gay men (and our sisters the Lesies) were the wonderful exception to the rule.

    Perhaps this is turning into a rant, but I am worried that we are stepping too far over the line of superficial judgements, looking fabulous is one thing, but dividing each other into "The Hot Boyfriend" or "The Chubby Best Friend" is starting to nag a bit at my Pride.

    Respond with care.

    -Imperfectly Yours,
    Roberts85
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    Oct 15, 2008 4:57 AM GMT
    No. There's no problems here. I have no clue what you speak of.

    I'd say more but I have to go make my protein shake, count my calories, my carbs, and have lunch with hotty-body 24-year-old and make vacation plans with unattractive-but-loyal overweight friend.

    Cheers!
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Oct 15, 2008 4:59 AM GMT
    I dont think this has anything in particular to do with homosexuality or 'pride', but i can certainly wholeheartedly second the notion that we should all strive to be a little less vain and superficial.
  • glenn77

    Posts: 17

    Oct 15, 2008 5:14 AM GMT
    I understand what you're saying Robert, but the fact is, not ALL of the community is like that. I know I'm not! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Oct 15, 2008 5:20 AM GMT
    I don't think we are any more superficial than mainstream pop culture... and yeah the gay community isn't as open-armed and accepting as you would think. We're a very fractioned group.
  • vindog

    Posts: 1440

    Oct 15, 2008 5:32 AM GMT
    I am not perfectly jacked.....








    yet.
    icon_biggrin.gif


  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Oct 15, 2008 5:39 AM GMT
    atlnvmasc saidI am not perfectly jacked.....








    yet.
    icon_biggrin.gif





    same....but working on it!
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    Oct 15, 2008 8:15 AM GMT
    Hey Robert, you're point is certainly grounded in truth, but I think that singling out this site has some flawed logic.

    For one, the gay pursuit of a "hot" body has existed since gays have existed. The definition of hot has changed (compare the 70's to now -- note the level of body fat, not to mention the moustaches), but gays have always focused on the body as an object of beauty and desire, both for themselves and what they want in others. And I think you can go back not only decades, but probably all the way to the ancient Greeks for plenty of evidence of this.

    Second, you're forgetting that a site called RealJock.com ("Gay Fitness Health & Life") is a self-selected subset of gay boys who are obviously going to be more focused on fitness and looking good than even the average gay.

    So, while I think your point is certainly valid, complaining about the guys on RJ and getting depressed about the state of gay culture is a bit of a misplaced reaction. It's like going to RepublicansForPalin.com and lamenting the fact that "everyone" is so anti-intellectual and worrying about the resultant drag on your "American Pride."

    So get some perspective by looking beyond this site -- then proceed with your rant if you still feel justified. But only after you visit a few bear-oriented, drag-oriented, art-oriented, political-oriented, etc. gay web sites, festivals and events. But on here?
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    Oct 15, 2008 8:33 AM GMT
    Roberts85 saidOkay, I know this may sound kinda nasty and I CERTAINLY don't want anyone to take it unkindly, but is there ANYONE under on this site that isn't perfectly jacked?
    I enjoy sports and running and healthy eating as much as the next "Realjock" but COME ON, some of us (or maybe it's just me) are not blessed with the perfect body gene.
    That being said, I don't want to undermine all the hard work that all you gorgeous guys put into all your gorgeous bodies, I'm not starting a competition here, but is there anyone else out there that thinks that the gay community has become a bit too superficial for its own good? What happened to the open armed, all are welcome, peace and love gays of the 60s?

    Maybe I'm holding the gay community to too high a standard, but I always thought that we as gay men (and our sisters the Lesies) were the wonderful exception to the rule.

    Perhaps this is turning into a rant, but I am worried that we are stepping too far over the line of superficial judgements, looking fabulous is one thing, but dividing each other into "The Hot Boyfriend" or "The Chubby Best Friend" is starting to nag a bit at my Pride.

    Respond with care.

    -Imperfectly Yours,
    Roberts85


    my parents are perfect products of the 60s, yet i was suprised to find that my mother of all people wished i wasn't gay (a psychologist), yet my father (a carpenter) appreciates me even more for the fact. and its just gay nature to love those straight boys on the football team with the perfect bodies, just as Jessica Alba for the straight man, we are no less barbaric or different from the straight men in the way we are sexual. just in that we admit a dick is more exciting than a fleshy clitt and a pair of tits. And i know for a fact that gays are the most superficial beings on this planet otherwise we would not dominate the fashion industries, so take pride and stop being such a hetero pussy about it lol
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    Oct 15, 2008 11:13 AM GMT
    While there is much truth in Robert's statement, there's also more complexity to it than stated by him. I personally relate to the issue of being not as genetically gifted as some of the guys here. There's only so much muscular development that will counter an ectomorphic skeletal structure. I can do all the delt work of the next guy and it will not make the bones of my upper torso wider. Add to that the fact that my age makes being ripped far more difficult without a diet so strict it's unpleasant, and an amount of exercise that's beyond the time I have available. I can only affect my metabolism so much, but not beyond the constraints of my genetic makeup.

    Working out and being 'fit' is meant to enhance my life, not be my life. There are those that can and do spend every free moment and more at the gym. I do not chide anyone with a commitment to a goal and how much of the rest of their life they are willing to sacrifice for it. When I think of my own motivations, for me, it's a tough balance, because sometimes it's difficult to determine deep down, how much is for my health and how much is vanity. The vanity proponent is far more ephemeral and, unlike the health aspects of it, is not 'always there'. All I have to do is see some guy who's near my age who looks incredible, and has an incredible physique that is partly due to genetics, and I want to quit. Then, the benefits that make me feel healthy are the only reason that I keep going.
    I will never look like I wished I would have since I was a teenager, and that's largely because I have an unchangeable genetic base. I work with what I have. I also realize that there are some that can look at me and see me (purely visually) as homely or average or handsome. I have no say in how I'm viewed, only how I see myself.
    Fortunately at this site, there are many men who show that a guy can be fit, smart, funny, and perceptive, and willing to help others. I don't agree with them all the time, but their voices are as essential to my growth as is pushing iron.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 15, 2008 2:16 PM GMT
    I don't know what you're talking about. I have two ugly friends. How can I be superficial if I have two ugly friends?
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    Oct 15, 2008 7:47 PM GMT
    muchmorethanmuscleI feel much more warmly received on this site. Guys on here are much nicer generally. At least the ones that post on the forums are more social and not all about some hook up or trying to get in your pants.


    Is that why all of my hook-up emails were being answered in ill fashion? Shit, I better make my way back over to Manhunt! LOL! icon_wink.gif
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    Oct 15, 2008 8:08 PM GMT
    When you get to my age ( and most of your friends are dead or on meds for something or other) you may find that fitness is not very superficial.
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    Oct 15, 2008 9:16 PM GMT
    Roberts85 said...is there anyone else out there that thinks that the gay community has become a bit too superficial for its own good?

    That would be why you're seeing the "bears" continue to gain prominence within the larger gay community. Not saying there isn't a beauty pageant aspect to that crew as well, but they're generally much more welcoming, less body- and age-obsessed.
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    Oct 15, 2008 9:28 PM GMT
    hobrontoThat would be why you're seeing the "bears" continue to gain prominence within the larger gay community. Not saying there isn't a beauty pageant aspect to that crew as well, but they're generally much more welcoming, less body- and age-obsessed.


    Generally true, however, I've been "discriminated" against by the Bear Community here in SF of all places. Once standing in line to enter a bear bar in SOMA, a man yelled at the door man telling him..."Get that twink out of this line and send him to the Castro! He shouldn't be here!"
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    Oct 15, 2008 9:45 PM GMT
    This might be a different thread but I have been asking myself a similar question regarding the purpose and direction of "Pride" events. I understand living in San Francisco, my view of Pride is skewed but each year, the floats that get the most attention are the muscle boys, the drag queens, and the over the top floats. I understand Pride is a celebration of our lives and by putting ourselves out there as a community, we create a space for others to come out and live their truth but I questino how many people would want to come out after seeing some of the floats and partying that goes on at Pride. Yes, its a lot of superficiality, yes, there are alot of objectifying one another. What i read into the original post seemed to be asking the question, "What is the direction that gay culture seems to be heading towards?". As we become more metrosexual in appearances, more 'straight acting' in behavior, are we losing much of the uniqueness that made being part of the LGBT community so radical in the first place?
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    Oct 16, 2008 1:15 AM GMT
    I couldn't have said it any better. I have been talking about this for years. It saddens me to see so many intelligent, well spoken, genuine guys sidetracked by fake tans, abercrombie and fitch, and the quest for a 6 pack.

    I think that everyone should strive to lead a healthy lifestyle which includes working out, but there has to be a line.

    As an extra comment. To all you guys who tan to look better, you couldnt be the most ignorant and stupid person alive. That is like inviting cancer right into your body! I'm so proud of my beautiful pale skin!
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    Oct 16, 2008 1:47 AM GMT
    I understand where you come from, cause in a way it really makes me sad cause i see people that i could quite possilbly click with but i can talk to them cause i just feel like they wouldnt like me cause im not "that gay" ya know cause i seem them they have these fantasic bodies and their with other guys that have fantasic bodies and it just kills me, cause i can go to the gym 5 days a week and i just feel substandard, cause thanks to my gene's ill always have a bit of a belly.
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    Oct 16, 2008 1:53 AM GMT
    It's true. We do have different standards, by and large, on this site, and IguanaSF is exactly right: we're not exactly a random sampling of the gay male population. But here's another thing to keep in mind: that little profile pic to the left of this posting? That's me on a good day. It's not me on a fat day, an ugly day, a bad hair day, a puffy-face hung-over-as-hell day, or at ten pm when I wander into Walmart in track pants and a non-name-brand sweatshirt. It's an idealized me, and it's the me I strive to be as much as possible. I think, if we're honest, we all probably do that a little bit. Some days our abs don't pop (hell, I'm just fat enough that mine never do, really), but we don't peel off our shirts and pose for pictures those days. Or if we do, we really suck it in.

    The point? It's an image we create, and perpetuate, because we expect others to expect it of us. Is that particularly vain or superficial? Maybe. But that vain superficiality might just come from a very human and ordinary need to feel like we fit in and conform.

    Maybe. Or maybe that's just me justifying my superficiality, or the DayQuil I just swigged kicking in and making me Hallmark-momenty.

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    Oct 16, 2008 2:00 AM GMT
    muchmorethanmuscle saidThat's a bit harsh, Daniel. I'm in the same boat with you. I don't tan and want to protect myself from skin cancer but bashing people and calling them stupid is overboard.


    Thats your opinion. I feel like sometimes people need a firm kick in the ass to understand the full scope of their choices.
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    Oct 16, 2008 2:09 AM GMT
    danielryan...their choices.


    You stated it yourself, it's their choice. Not yours.
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    Oct 16, 2008 2:44 AM GMT
    I think you are right...and you are wrong at the same time. Gay guys should be interested about BOTH things, they way they look and the way they think, there is NOTHING wrong with looking good, that doesn't mean you are superficial but unfortunately its a tendency in the gay world.

    Please guys just stop it with the wishful thinking already - "I dont look good cause of my genes" - PLEASE genes? 1 year and a half ago(21 years old) I was ridiculously skinny and anorexic, and I also had a friend who was ridiculously fat. We just DECIDED we wanted to do something about our bodies and take care of our selves, - stop being lazy and do something about "me"....I gained 50 pounds in muscles....He lost 70 pounds of body fat.

    How can we expect for some one to love us if we dont even love our self on the first place? Unless you have a disability that makes it impossible for you to work out you can always have a nice body.

    I always look for something else in guys than just the way they look, but its true that most of the hot guys are idiots to the 101%, I dont consider my self superficial but yes looking good is not the only important thing but ITS important , that just means a guy take care of himself, and THAT, is a quality.

  • joggerva

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    Oct 16, 2008 2:54 AM GMT
    HighVoltageGuy said
    hobrontoThat would be why you're seeing the "bears" continue to gain prominence within the larger gay community. Not saying there isn't a beauty pageant aspect to that crew as well, but they're generally much more welcoming, less body- and age-obsessed.


    Generally true, however, I've been "discriminated" against by the Bear Community here in SF of all places. Once standing in line to enter a bear bar in SOMA, a man yelled at the door man telling him..."Get that twink out of this line and send him to the Castro! He shouldn't be here!"


    Just curious, did you get in the bar?

    If not, then yeah, I'd say you were probably "discriminated" against. Otherwise, it just sounds like just a disparaging comment from an individual.
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    Oct 16, 2008 2:56 AM GMT
    I'm only bothered by the pricks who act elitist and only talk to other hot people. I'm bothered by this because it's like.. you only talk to people to get laid? I've always been proud of myself for being able to talk to and carry a converstation with people who are very diverse.

    I do like seeing guys with nice bodies, gives me something to work towards.


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    Oct 16, 2008 3:06 AM GMT
    IguanaSF has it right - gays have always strived to attain a certain physical attractiveness, ever since the sexual revolutions of the '60's. I suggest you read the book Faggots by Larry Kramer. It's an interesting (albeit random) read, and it's one of the most respected pieces of 'gay' litereature out there. It really shows the gay culture at it's best and worse, and every gay can relate to it in some way. The best thing is that it was written in the early Eighties, but the story could easily have happened at the fag bar down the street last Wednesday. Read it, then go look at some other sites that are made just for gays. Then you might change your tune at how the guys here act.

    Oh, and by the way, I'm not the bestest body here either. Just working on it slowly. And it's not just superficial, but it makes me feel better to feel like I liook better. It's all psychological and basic instincts. It's all about mating, and even dim-witted gays understand that the older you get the less likely it is that you'll find a guy to settle with, no matter how much we enjoy our freedom. And just wanting to talk to guys who are 'hot' is not neccessarily superficial. You have to be attracted to someone even if you're just going to be friends. Read some Freud and some Jung while you're in the library. They have great ideas, and sometimes they're right too.