Farewell to the Iron Lady: Margaret Thatcher (1925-2013)

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    Apr 08, 2013 2:42 PM GMT
    May she rest in peace.

    http://world.time.com/2013/04/08/farewell-to-the-iron-lady-margaret-thatcher-1925-2013/

    Whatever you thought of Margaret Thatcher — and during an unbroken stretch in office from 1979 to 1990 the former Prime Minister, who died on April 8 after a stroke, aged 87, attracted both passionate support and deep loathing — you never doubted her force of will. The Iron Lady showed her mettle again and again, wrenching Britain, often brutally, out of a malaise and sense of all-encompassing failure that had blighted it for much of the era after the end of World War II. This meant not only facing down opponents but also critics in her own party, who ran scared as the strong economic medicine she prescribed sickened swathes of voters. “To those waiting with bated breath for that favorite media catchphrase, the U-turn, I have only one thing to say,” she declared at the 1980 Conservative party conference. “You turn if you want to. The lady’s not for turning.”
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    Apr 08, 2013 4:43 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidA loathsome serpent.


    *remembers what she said about Mandela and how she defended apartheid*
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    Apr 08, 2013 4:59 PM GMT
    There will be very few tears shed in the former mining towns and other industrial centres of the UK, where she laid waste to entire communities.
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    Apr 08, 2013 6:00 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidThere will be very few tears shed in the former mining towns and other industrial centres of the UK, where she laid waste to entire communities.


    That were entirely unsustainable. Of course the irony in this thread here is the real vile ones are those like meninlove and aristoshark but that's nothing new.
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    Apr 08, 2013 6:01 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Aristoshark saidA loathsome serpent.


    *remembers what she said about Mandela and how she defended apartheid*


    Said the old white man.

    Let's see what others have said:
    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=368451&sn=Detail&pid=71616

    Mangosuthu Buthelezi: Thatcher a voice of reason during Apartheid
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    Apr 08, 2013 6:10 PM GMT
    It would seem the bitter reaction to her death by extremists like meninlove is far more a reflection of their own ignorance and true nature than they would like others to believe.

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=368445&sn=Detail&pid=71616

    Thatcher alwas a steadfast critic of apartheid - FW de Klerk

    I have learned with great sadness of the death of Baroness Thatcher. She will be remembered not only as one of Britain's greatest Prime Ministers but also as a leader whose policies and approach had a significant impact on politics throughout the world.

    Although she was always a steadfast critic of apartheid, she had a much better grasp of the complexities and geo-strategic realities of South Africa than many of her contemporaries. She consistently, and correctly, believed that much more could be achieved through constructive engagement with the South African government than through draconian sanctions and isolation. She also understood the need to consider the concerns and aspirations of all South Africans in their search for constitutional consensus.

    For this reason she was able to play a positive role in supporting our own process of non-racial constitutional transformation in South Africa. From my first meeting with her in London after my election as leader of the National Party in 1989 and throughout the rest of her tenure as Prime Minister, she gave strong and valued to support to me and to all other leaders who were working for a peaceful, prosperous, and constitutional future for South Africa.

    We met in the Cape and in London many times after her retirement from office - and before her stroke in 2002. I am honoured to have had Margaret Thatcher as a friend.
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    Apr 08, 2013 6:16 PM GMT
    More perspective.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22069896

    After the end of apartheid and the advent of democracy in South Africa in 1994, Mr Kathrada sometimes took visiting delegations and VIPs on guided tours of the notorious Robben Island jail where he and Mr Mandela had been incarcerated.

    "I had the opportunity to accompany [Margaret Thatcher] a few years ago," said Mr Kathrada.

    "She assured me that she had played a positive role during our trial.

    "We were expecting a death sentence. We were well aware that there was all sorts of pressure from South Africa and abroad - pressure from people not necessarily agreeing with" the ANC's policies, he said.

    'Cloud-cuckoo land'
    At the time, Mrs Thatcher was a frontbench MP in Harold Macmillan's government.

    "I'm not interested in whether she was prime minister or whatever," said Mr Kathrada, when I quizzed him on the likelihood that Baroness Thatcher was personally involved in any behind-the-scenes diplomatic pressure on South Africa's apartheid government.

    "I had no reason to doubt what she was saying and it was good to hear she played a role."

    Baroness Thatcher was better known for her strong opposition to sanctions against the apartheid government, and for describing the African National Congress in 1987 as a "typical terrorist organisation… Anyone who thinks it is going to run the government in South Africa is living in cloud-cuckoo land".

    Mr Mandela did not meet her on his first visit to London in 1990 after his release, but Mr Kathrada insisted that no grudge was held.

    "We were quite aware [that she'd called us terrorists] but we had forgiven our oppressors, and Mrs Thatcher wasn't one of our oppressors," Mr Kathrada said.

    "Once we'd forgiven our oppressors - the national government and individuals - we didn't find it difficult to forgive everybody who had different views from us."
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    Apr 08, 2013 6:39 PM GMT
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-dies-tributes-obama

    Obama hails Margaret Thatcher as 'great champion of freedom' in tribute
    Meryl Streep adds to bipartisan tributes to former British prime minister, who has died at the age of 87
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    Apr 08, 2013 6:50 PM GMT
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/08/a-look-back-at-margaret-thatchers-economic-record/

    Some numbers behinds her policies here. So she broke the back of inflation and worsened unemployment to 10% throughout much of the 1980s. She actually increased both spending and taxes during the initial part of her tenure. She proposed an economically unfair poll tax which was her downfall.

    Much as I admire her foreign policy, her economics were austerity first, and people paid for that...much like what Europe is going through now.

    And deregulation made London the financial center of Europe...and paved the way for financial crises.
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    Apr 08, 2013 7:26 PM GMT
    LOL, the Conservative leader in the UK disagrees with you Riddie. icon_lol.gif

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1527432/Cameron-rebuts-Thatchers-view-of-Mandela.html
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    Apr 08, 2013 7:47 PM GMT
    And, of course, she introduced gay hate legislation in the form of 'Section 28' (or Section 2A to the Local Government Act 1986, as it became).

    "a local authority shall not promote the teaching in any school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship."

    Yes, gay people can be really proud of her.
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    Apr 08, 2013 7:50 PM GMT
    meninlove said LOL, the Conservative leader in the UK disagrees with you Riddie. icon_lol.gif

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1527432/Cameron-rebuts-Thatchers-view-of-Mandela.html


    Heh - too bad you don't bother to read context and the aftermath/views as noted above. There's no denying that Thatcher pointed out that the ANC were terrorists - but at the same time, in the context of the times given how she and Reagan worked to break communism it's also not surprising.

    What has come out afterwards according to a close friend of Mandela's is that she helped prevent their execution. She was very much however against apartheid according to De Klerk. Mind you all these people must know far less than you - an old white man who is entirely disinterested in facts.
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    Apr 08, 2013 7:51 PM GMT
    DeKlerk....

    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif


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    Apr 08, 2013 7:52 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidAnd, of course, she introduced gay hate legislation in the form of 'Section 28' (or Section 2A to the Local Government Act 1986, as it became).

    "a local authority shall not promote the teaching in any school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship."

    Yes, gay people can be really proud of her.


    Probably the worst part of her legacy. But its hardly as simple as that either:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/08/margaret-thatcher-s-legacy-on-gay-rights.html

    As a member of Parliament (MP) in the 1960s, she was one of only a handful of Conservatives to vote for the decriminalization of homosexuality, a truly forward-thinking and brave gesture that she deserves a great deal of credit for.

    Sadly, as Prime Minister, she would squander much of that credit (ironically enough, for a politician who put such stock in thrift) by lending her support to one of the nastiest anti-gay measures of modern times: the infamous Section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988, which forbade schools from teaching "the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship". This was despite the open secret (among Westminster insiders, at least) that several prominent members of her government were themselves gay, albeit in reinforced-steel closets. It remains one of the darkest spots on her legacy.

    History, however, always proceeds with a good dose of unintended consequence. It was Section 28, more than anything else, that galvanized and mobilized the modern British gay rights movement which, in just a quarter of a century, is on the verge of securing full legal equality for gays and lesbians. In her heart, I doubt Thatcher really regretted that development.
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    Apr 08, 2013 7:53 PM GMT
    Actualy Riddler while you're busily insulting me as much as you can, your Rome is burning while you fiddle. icon_lol.gif

    ...and no I'm not going to tell you what it is as you'll find out soon enough.


    Oh my I'm having far too good a day.
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    Apr 08, 2013 7:54 PM GMT
    meninlove said DeKlerk....

    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif




    Heh I'm sure you think you're coming across as somehow clever but sadly the joke is on you. You're such a fool. icon_wink.gif
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    Apr 08, 2013 7:55 PM GMT
    meninlove said Actualy Riddler while you're busily insulting me as much as you can, your Rome is burning while you fiddle. icon_lol.gif

    ...and no I'm not going to tell you what it is as you'll find out soon enough.


    Oh my I'm having far too good a day.


    Heh - and like I care or think you have any credibility. You and artdeco must get along so well. You're like his Canadian equivalent icon_lol.gif
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    Apr 08, 2013 7:59 PM GMT

    Try harder and tuck in your shirt; your agenda's showing. icon_lol.gif
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    Apr 08, 2013 8:01 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    meninlove said DeKlerk....

    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif




    Heh I'm sure you think you're coming across as somehow clever but sadly the joke is on you. You're such a fool. icon_wink.gif


    That was a red herring Riddie; I was hoping for another wall of text from you. icon_lol.gif
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    Apr 08, 2013 8:50 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/08/a-look-back-at-margaret-thatchers-economic-record/

    Some numbers behinds her policies here. So she broke the back of inflation and worsened unemployment to 10% throughout much of the 1980s. She actually increased both spending and taxes during the initial part of her tenure. She proposed an economically unfair poll tax which was her downfall.

    Much as I admire her foreign policy, her economics were austerity first, and people paid for that...much like what Europe is going through now.

    And deregulation made London the financial center of Europe...and paved the way for financial crises.


    Hardly. Too bad you have no basis for the conclusions you draw. No, deregulation did not pave the way for the financial crisis - quite the opposite. Your refusal to recognize the roots of government policy in encouraging debt and leverage for the actual cause of the crisis does your views a terrible disservice.

    Her people did pay for the austerity - in a much more competitive economy that wasn't tied to the crisis that Europe now finds itself in:
    http://www.voxeu.org/article/economic-legacy-mrs-thatcher
  • TroyAthlete

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    Apr 08, 2013 8:51 PM GMT
    Did not often agree with Thatcher's social policy, but she was spot on about socialism/communism. Who else could manage this right after being thrown under the bus and forced out by the good ole boys in the Conservative Party:



    Impressive woman, R.I.P.
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    Apr 08, 2013 9:02 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    meninlove said Actualy Riddler while you're busily insulting me as much as you can, your Rome is burning while you fiddle. icon_lol.gif

    ...and no I'm not going to tell you what it is as you'll find out soon enough.

    Oh my I'm having far too good a day.

    Heh - and like I care or think you have any credibility. You and artdeco must get along so well. You're like his Canadian equivalent icon_lol.gif

    Huh? How did *I* get dragged into this? And while I'd be more happy to be their American equivalent, than them mine, I've never succeeded. To begin with I don't much like beer, I lack the accent, I can't be succinct like them, and there's not 2 of me.
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    Apr 08, 2013 9:21 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete saidDid not often agree with Thatcher's social policy, but she was spot on about socialism/communism. Who else could manage this right after being thrown under the bus and forced out by the good ole boys in the Conservative Party:



    Impressive woman, R.I.P.


    Listen to what she says... it´s a load of bull shit. "they´d rather have the poor poorer". Where did she make that one up from?
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    Apr 08, 2013 9:24 PM GMT
    GonzoTheGreat said
    TroyAthlete saidDid not often agree with Thatcher's social policy, but she was spot on about socialism/communism. Who else could manage this right after being thrown under the bus and forced out by the good ole boys in the Conservative Party:



    Impressive woman, R.I.P.


    Listen to what she says... it´s a load of bull shit. "they´d rather have the poor poorer". Where did she make that one up from?


    Careful, you're going to run afoul of Riddie! icon_lol.gif
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    Apr 08, 2013 10:04 PM GMT
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/04/08/margaret_thatcher_s_environmental_record_she_was_a_climate_hawk.html

    At least she looks at science as an ally...unlike today's Tea Party.