Self hating gay = Republican/Conservative?

  • duglyduckling

    Posts: 279

    Oct 19, 2008 3:26 AM GMT
    Knowing how the political right is quite often anti-gay in its policies... (anti-same sex marriage, anti-same sex benefits, etc)

    and when someone is politically aligned to the right (Republican, Conservative) and supports their ideology whole-heartedly...

    Does that make the person a self-hating gay?
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    Oct 19, 2008 3:57 AM GMT
    I gotta be honest... I'm not trying to make an unfair judgement here. But, I have to say YES, that most of the people I have met who are Gay and consider themselves to be Republicans (or who are Repubs and, though not Gay, indulge in activities that cold be considered "counter-culture" to the usual Repub philosophies) have almost always been filled with a great deal of self-loathing.

    Two examples: once I was at the Stonewall 25 Celebration in NYC, in Central Park. We were all gathered on the big lawn, listening to Liza Minelli performing up on the stage. The great majority of us in the audience were naked, and there was a lot of pot being passed around. One guy sat down next to me and asked if he could take a hit or two off the joint I was smoking. He was a very fat man, nude, older, white, lots of body hair, and basically not particularly attractive to me, although others may have found his type to be attractive. Anyway, we're sharing this joint, we were chatting, and I asked him what he did for a living, and he told me he was a congressman (or maybe a United States Senator) down in D.C. I perked-up, told him I was from the D.C. area (at that time, anyway) and it was nice to see some political support for our community there today. I asked him if he was a Democrat or a Libertarian, or an Independent, and he acted shocked, and said he was a Republican. I said something to the effect that it was nice to see some support within a party that was not normally known for it's tolerance of Gays. He continued to be offended, and said he would, as a good Republican, never support Gay issues.
    I was very put off by that, and asked him rather archly, what he was doing there at this event, naked, and smoking my pot?
    He responded that we Gays always have the best parties, and that there was no other way to find cute guys to play with or good pot to smoke, let alone being able to be naked in a sea of other hot, sweaty, naked people, and that this was a rare opportunity to "be himself" as he put it!
    I was just stunned! But I took the joint back and told him to find some other sucker.

    Another example is a dear Republican friend of mine for many years, now. We smoked pot all the time, and yet whenever a knock would come to the door, he'd freak out (in California, no less) and scurry around saying "Quick, hide the pot!" I asked him, several times, "You know that pot is not a criminal offense in California, don't you?"
    "Yeah, but it should be. Pot should NEVER be made legal. That would mean it's OK to smoke it, and that would ruin a lot of people's lives!" he'd always reply.
    I once asked him why he liked to hang out and take long road trips, and cook, and do so many things with me. He told me it was because I have a sense of fun, and bring out the youthfulness in him that he misses. He is 3 years younger than me, but for years whenever people who didn't know us would meet us, they'd ask him if I was his son! And this was when I was around 30 years old at the time!! And, in the area of self-hatred, this friend has been fighting suicidal urges since I've known him.

    So, I do think many Republicans are very selfish people, who have a lot of self-hatred because they know, deep down inside, that the attitudes espoused by the Republican party in fact do NOT square-up with the humanitarian ideals that are supposed to be part of the American fabric at it's best.
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    Oct 19, 2008 4:11 AM GMT
    I would say no. There are many reasons for people to vote Republican despite the homophobic tendencies of the conservative right. I disagree with these reasons, but they exist. From my personal observations, gay republicans think it's not important that the Republican party sometimes uses homophobia as a way to get votes. I think it's more a matter of detachment than self-hatred.
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    Oct 19, 2008 4:21 AM GMT
    Well, Dowal, couldn't the detachment you mention really be their form of denial? Many people will disassociate, or "detach" themselves from their feelings of self-loathing brought about by their conscience when they do something, or promote an attitude that they know, deep inside, is wrong or somehow harmful to others. This is done as an emotional shield from confronting the fact that they are doing something they feel to be morally wrong, such as voting in a way that harms others in order to gain for themselves personally.

    Of course, there are some who will quite gladly vote, or act in a manner that is hateful, selfish, and harmful to the greater society with no remorse whatsoever. Those are the people we call "sociopaths."
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    Oct 19, 2008 4:43 AM GMT
    Personally, I am a republican. I am proud to be gay and don't regret it, but I don't think we will have equality form either party. So I just put that issue aside and I find I agree with the republican Platform more than the democratic one. I have problems with both but it's as simple as that for me
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    Oct 19, 2008 7:43 AM GMT
    Well to the post above me...thats what the power of voting is all about because frankly 50 years ago they felt the same about women and blacks that they do about us today. I dated a Republican and I can honestly say he was walking know, the "I wont march in your parade, but I will wave a flag from afar type" I dont see us as second class citizens, but in some respects rapists and child pornographers have more rights than I do?

    To Zeebyaboi... you are great poeple, I read your post and welI must say I hate hipocracy and you gave great examples of why Id never vote Republican.
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    Oct 19, 2008 9:01 AM GMT
    I think labeling lob cabin republicans are self-hating is over simplifing a complex issue. People vote for what they believe is to be for the betterment of society; most people also do not soley vote based on one issue... but several (e.g. ending the war, fixing the economy, speration of church and state, etc.)

    Log cabin's believe republicans have the better answers to our problems, and most of them are able to put aside the issue of gay rights in order to elect "their" party of change and reason into office.

    I, however, am an independent.... I wish more log cabin guys would become independents... becasue it is kinda hypocritical--everyone know a large portion of the republicans base is the religious right. if you are a log cabin... you are supporting a party which has had a history (and even today) of segregation/slavery. (Remember, during the Civil War the political poles where somewhat switch from what they are today... in some ways the Democrats back then are the Republicans of today.... the south became mostly republican as a result of JFK's nomination--people in the south were scared of a Catholic in the White House and switched parties.) Republicans are also the ones who wsh to equate creationism with evolution in high school biology; they want to add the ten commandments to most public places. Abstience-str8-only sex ed; no embryonic stem cell reseach, and no gay rights. When you vote republican you are voting the same way as Sally Kern (Okla-R), Sam Brownback (KS-R), Pastor John Hagee, Sean Hanity, Ann Coulter, Michael Savage.... the list could go on forever almost.

    Are there radical democrats? Sure thing. But I don't hear them comparing a community of US citizens to "the cancer of society" or being "more dangerous that Islamic terrorists" When you vote republican, you have to accept the fact that you make very well help bring a person into the White House who believes that humans and dinosaurs walked together on Earth--someone who has no basic respect for knowledge, science and research. Screw Carbon-14 dating... those chemists/palentologists are secular-progressive liberals.

    This country's political history is like a pendullum (<--sp??) swinging back and forth from republican to democrat

    When people get tired of being taxed and other democratoc short-comings--they elect a repulican. When people are tired of greed and big business corruption... or the marriage of church and state and other republican short-comings--they elect a republican.

    Anyaways... are log cabins self hating... no. But, I believe, they are able to give up a large section of their moral character in order to vote for what they percieve to be the best canidate. Is that a good or bad thing? Whose to judge?
  • OptimusMatt

    Posts: 1124

    Oct 19, 2008 9:29 AM GMT
    There are many reasons why people align themselves with particular political parties. Some people grew up being indoctrinated by their parents/towns, whereas some people try and look at the 'bigger' picture and vote based on their candidates' stances on multiple issues. One of the problems with US politics is that gay rights are sort of in the middle of being dealt with, and as such they are a political hot topic and, like EVERY hot topic, can and are used to snag voters.

    I'm a conservative, I'm proud of it, and anyone who wants to bash me personally can suck my sweaty nutsack.


    In the last Canadian federal election the issue of gay rights was most DEFINITELY a political hot topic, and the conservatives promised to hold a true free vote to determine if 'the will of the people' was actually upheld. The reasoning (aside from the conservative religious folk demanding the re-vote) was that while the Liberals (who were in power at the time) held a 'free vote', they insisted that everyone in the liberal caucus vote in favor of it, even though some 'supposedly' had reservations about doing so.

    Now, at the time of the election I had to choose whether or not I was going to vote for a party I supported, but didn't support me. After thinking about it, I chose to vote independent as the liberals had some bad corruption scandals in the years prior...and there's never a good reason to vote NDP. WHAT ABOUT THE ISSUES AT THE BOARDROOM TABLE JACK?

    THIS election, however, not a word was mentioned about gay rights - after Harper held his free vote, and lost it, that was it. I think that in the following years, as the issue of gay rights succeeds and gets laid to rest in the US, once again gay americans will actually get to choose their party instead of being morally strong-armed into voting for a certain party.

    I think it's gotta be hard on gay republicans who may strongly believe that the dems are going to run the white house into the ground - its hard to support a party, but not have them support you back, and its even more difficult to support a party based on ONE issue when you are at odds with the rest of that party's platform. Ultimately, you have to vote with your conscience, and I think thats what a lot of homo repubs are GOING to do - while they may never admit it, its really hard to fight the panic and fear that wells up every time you truly think about how second-rate you really are in society. But bashing them at EVERY opportunity because they are stuck between a rock and a hard place is (at its best) sad, and at its worst, pathetic. Not that some gay repubs don't bait you demos, but as homos we should know better - just as not all gay people are limp-wristed, goat-fucking pnp'rs, not all gay conservatives are self-hating.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19067

    Oct 19, 2008 10:23 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]duglyduckling said[/cite]Knowing how the political right is quite often anti-gay in its policies... (anti-same sex marriage, anti-same sex benefits, etc)

    and when someone is politically aligned to the right (Republican, Conservative) and supports their ideology whole-heartedly...

    Does that make the person a self-hating gay?[/quote

    Here we go again...sheeeeesh...the answer is NO - gay republicans are NOT self loathing, they simply have different priorities that mold their daiy lives and value system. Doesn't make them bad, or good, or necessarily right or wrong, We live in a country where we are each given the right to vote how we want, for what ever reasons we want, and sometimes those reasons can be deeply personal, or perhap coming from a different perspective or unique background. There are self-loathing gays to be found in every political afilliation I'm sure
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    Oct 19, 2008 10:47 AM GMT
    Since my sexuality does not define me as a whole, it is only part of me.

    When I vote I look at the big picture and not just my wants, and what party will be best for the country as a whole, and not just myself.

    I have to say no.
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    Oct 19, 2008 3:45 PM GMT
    Your sexual orientation should not dictate your political views. Gay republicans simply have a different priority ladder than gay democrats do. In a two party system (like that of the States') you shouldn't agree 100% with every single doctrine in your political party; rather you prioritize.

    CuriousJockAz said it best:
    CuriousJockAzthe answer is NO - gay republicans are NOT self loathing, they simply have different priorities that mold their daily lives and value system. Doesn't make them bad, or good, or necessarily right or wrong,

    It is really getting nauseating seeing all the hate on these forums towards gay republicans. All it does is birth more hate in our community when we are all desiring the same goal. Telling gays they have to be a democrat because of policy is like telling women they need to be democrats because of the conservative view towards abortion.
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    Oct 19, 2008 3:53 PM GMT
    the last four posts summed it up perfectly

    and i could not agree more with this statement

    Pinny said

    It is really getting nauseating seeing all the hate on these forums towards gay republicans.
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    Oct 19, 2008 4:05 PM GMT
    I wonder if the homosexuals on the DL on CL are mostly Republicans.

    Sociologists and anthropologists educate us please! ;-)
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    Oct 19, 2008 4:14 PM GMT
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    Oct 19, 2008 4:32 PM GMT
    There are a lot of Republicans/Conservatives that are pro-business, pro small government and pro free trade that are also socially liberal. There are a lot of Democrats/Liberals/New Democratics that are pro organized labour that are actually socially conservative.

    In Canada the New Democratic Party has always been pro gay rights. They gain a lot of support from organized labour. Yet if you canvassed the union members you would probably find a lot of homophobia.

    The moral of the story? People (including gays) vote for a number of reasons and are usually not one issue voters. I have never considered somebody who voted Republican as automatically anti-gay or a self-hating gay. The logic does not hold up.
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    Oct 19, 2008 4:32 PM GMT
    You must really have some popcorn stash RB!
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    Oct 19, 2008 4:35 PM GMT
    Since we're saying where we stand, I just had to say that I am a big ole ACLU CARD CARRYING LIBERAL ATHIEST just in case you didn't know that already. Indeed, so is my hubby. Hell, he makes me seem like a conversative, but then, he is from OLD EUROPE after all. ;-)

    Edited for full disclosure. LOL.
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    Oct 19, 2008 4:58 PM GMT
    Different Priorities. Wow. since When did the freedom of the people stop being the Priority of the Republican party. When you defer the question to the states. That is DENIAL, not a different Priority. That is what the republicans do all the time.

    Even if it was a Different Priority. How can you honestly vote for some one who is against your interest. I may not agree with everything that goes on in the Gay community. But, I can not as a person who believes in freedom vote against the rights of other people.
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    Oct 19, 2008 5:46 PM GMT
    I think one of the biggest problems I have with the current version of the Republican party, and it's more vehement adherents, is it's extremism. I consider myself (and in fact registered as) a Libertarian. Had Ron Paul stayed in the race and grown solidly in the polls, I might have considered giving him my support, even though I disagree completely with his anti-abortion stance. I am not a one-issue voter, but sometimes certain issues do carry more weight with me than others.

    I agree with the rights of gun ownership. But I think Sarah Palin's idea of "hunting" is an insult to nature. I hunt, but I do it with a deep spiritual respect for the animal I take, and I use ALL of that animal... for food, for fur, for sinew, for hides, etc. I also feel we need to preserve our right to keep and bear arms in order to protect ourselves and our society against all aggressors, both the criminal kind, and the police kind, because mark my words, and police organizations who wish to divest Americans of their guns have only one reason to do so: the hope that they can enact martial law against a populace who cannot resist. It's happened before, and WILL happen again, if we're not careful and vigilant.

    I have no problem with vouchers for paying tuition at the school of a parent's choice. I'm not sure where I stand on the idea of public schools competing with one another for bettering their students' performance. That can be a slippery slope, as it can become less about the students and more about the adminstration's goals of "look how great we're doing" instead of "look how well our students are doing."

    I don't like the abuse of the welfare system, such as those who have more and more children in order to get more and more welfare money, while not properly raising those children. We see this, at least in Southern California, mostly on the part of poor Latinos, and to a certain degree with the large Armenian population in Glendale, and some of the Vietnamese immigrants around the southland, many of whom continue to fall back on the Catholic tenet of "Birth control is a sin" and "God wants us to have as many children as possible," or many of whom simply don't care to practice responsibility in reproduction when by all that is logical, this is wrong-headed thinking today. We see poor, uneducated white and Black folks doing the same thing, so it's not just one group. Maybe back when we were primarily agrarian it was acceptable, but not now. And when we see so many of these poor people, as well as certain others, instilling unsound cultural and social values into their children, while at the same time allowing those children to fall into the trap of "you're entitled to have whatever you want, and you're special just because you're you," we shouldn't be surprised when we have a gang and crime problem that has swept our nation. That is something that a more conservative societal approach might be able to stop. Unfortunately, many Democrats are too frightened by the idea of appearing "politically incorrect" to be willing to face these facts and realize that they have allowed the idea of "entitlement" and "automatic respect" to go too far.

    But for some reason, many social conservatives don't stop at that. Many feel that discrimination against the basic human rights of others who are not like them is acceptable. The abortion issue and the Gay rights issues we are fighting about right now are the examples. I simply cannot see why any American could support the idea of denying Gay people all the same rights to marry, adopt children, live, and work, that all Americans are supposed to enjoy. Same with a woman's right to choose. I'm not a woman, so I think my ideas have NO place in their descision-making process. Do I like or approve of abortion? NOT always, but I feel it's best for me to err on the side of caution, and to me that caution means giving the woman the benefit of the doubt.

    I believe in the death penalty in certain cases. The Polly Klass case? Kill the fucker! Same thing with the two guys who just set that homeless man in Downtown L.A. on fire and let him burn to death just for fun. Set THEM on fire, and let them die the same way. It's only fair, and maybe it would send a powerful message to others who might wish to do something like that.

    The "war" on drugs? What a joke! Legalize marijuana, and be done with it. It's no more harmful than alcohol, and far less harmful than cigarettes. There are for more dangerous things we should be focussing on, like the rise (right here in our own Gay community) of crystal meth use. If I see one more guy in the spa asking me, "Hey, wanna party?" I think I'll scream!

    Employers who fire employees for being Gay? Sue them until they're entire bank account is dry, then stick them in a trailer park where they belong. Same thing for those landlords who would evict their tenants for being Gay. If a state has laws on it's books that are harmful to Gays, or other minorities just because of who they are, remove ALL federal funding from those states until they get with the program.

    My feeling is that I simply cannot respect the judgement or reasoning skills of any one, or any party, that continues to parade the views of Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich and Pat Robertson (all of whom I believe, after listening to them for years, to be among the most hateful, self-serving, and truly anti-American people ever to have been given the priviledge of speaking to a mass audience) in an effort to "inform" their party's base constituents.

    So, there are pros and cons on both sides. However, I'll leave you with a last consideration. You can get a pretty good gauge of a person's attitude, and therefore his or her value to the greater society, by his or her interests.
    Examples, strictly by generalized percentages:

    Most NASCAR fans, all across the country, are Republicans. Like it or not, NASCAR racing is a destructive, non-educational pastime that honestly does NOTHING to seriously contribute to the greater society. It creates pollution, it misuses precious resources, and it wastes time with little to show for it when it's over. Same goes for WWF Wrestling and cage fighting. If you look at those "sports" you'll find the majority of their fans are Republicans.

    Most people who attend art galleries, opera or theater, museums, or create works of art for others to enjoy and which (hopefully) enrich the world, are more often Democrats. It's no surprise that many of those people are also contributing patrons to colleges, civic organisations, and are active in other philanthropic activities. These are all acts and attitudes that are CONSTRUCTIVE.

    It's no surprise that the majority of those who would ban books from libraries are Republicans, whereas many of those who donate books and money to libraries and art institutions, and museums, tend to be Democrats.

    If you don't like what I'm saying, don't bother flaming me. Just look at the numbers. I think you'll see a very real correlation.

    In short, there ARE good aspects to both sides. But, unfortunately, it's true, from my perspective, that the Republicans have allowed their party to become corrupted by those who have a more selfish attitude in terms of enforcing their narrow world view on the rest of society, when a more centrist view is needed. And if the Democrats aren't careful, they will soon find themselves in the same situation.