Muscled guys versus confidence.

  • Piers40

    Posts: 31

    Apr 22, 2013 8:50 PM GMT
    Ok, quick question that - to me - seems obvious but it's always good to throw it out to others.

    Often I hear gay guys tell me I shouldn't worry so much about getting shape, there's so much more to attractiveness such as confidence. I agree confidence is important. But is it fair to say - generally - men (and not only gay men) need visual cues to get attracted, and generally the physical is what reels people in. Without physical attraction relationships cannot work. Ofcourse to keep guys interested you need something more.

    I like muscled guys - on the whole these guys generally go for other muscled guys. I think it's fair to say it's unlikely with just confidence and an average body they'll take an interest. I know it's very rare that confidence alone attracts me and actually I'd say good looks will get me much more keen to get to known someone (probably to my loss)

    So what I'm asking is are many men deluding themselves by thinking confidence is all you need? My opinion is the guys who believe this the most, sadly are the ones who aren't as physically intact and through necessity see beauty in other ways then a body type (probably smart).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 22, 2013 8:56 PM GMT
    Why settle for "just" confidence? Search for muscled guys with confidence. icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 22, 2013 9:01 PM GMT
    Piers40 saidOk, quick question that - to me - seems obvious but it's always good to throw it out to others.

    Often I hear gay guys tell me I shouldn't worry so much about getting shape, there's so much more to attractiveness such as confidence. I agree confidence is important. But is it fair to say - generally - men (and not only gay men) need visual cues to get attracted, and generally the physical is what reels people in. Without physical attraction relationships cannot work. Ofcourse to keep guys interested you need something more.

    I like muscled guys - on the whole these guys generally go for other muscled guys. I think it's fair to say it's unlikely with just confidence and an average body they'll take an interest. I know it's very rare that confidence alone attracts me and actually I'd say good looks will get me much more keen to get to known someone (probably to my loss)

    So what I'm asking is are many men deluding themselves by thinking confidence is all you need? My opinion is the guys who believe this the most, sadly are the ones who aren't as physically intact and through necessity see beauty in other ways then a body type (probably smart).


    this is NOT true. we all relationship based on being attracted to someone's physical appearances to be sexual relationships or just hookups. if you try to turn a sexual relationship into a romantic relationship, you have to love the person for who they are mentally and personally. NOT just their body. you do not have to be attracted to someone physically in order to do that. you can become sexually attracted to someone AFTER getting to fall in with their personality. it seems like folks just being shallow then wondering why they can't find anybody. icon_surprised.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 22, 2013 9:05 PM GMT
    scaredmidget said
    Piers40 saidOk, quick question that - to me - seems obvious but it's always good to throw it out to others.

    Often I hear gay guys tell me I shouldn't worry so much about getting shape, there's so much more to attractiveness such as confidence. I agree confidence is important. But is it fair to say - generally - men (and not only gay men) need visual cues to get attracted, and generally the physical is what reels people in. Without physical attraction relationships cannot work. Ofcourse to keep guys interested you need something more.

    I like muscled guys - on the whole these guys generally go for other muscled guys. I think it's fair to say it's unlikely with just confidence and an average body they'll take an interest. I know it's very rare that confidence alone attracts me and actually I'd say good looks will get me much more keen to get to known someone (probably to my loss)

    So what I'm asking is are many men deluding themselves by thinking confidence is all you need? My opinion is the guys who believe this the most, sadly are the ones who aren't as physically intact and through necessity see beauty in other ways then a body type (probably smart).


    this is NOT true.


    I think what meant to say is that guys look at physical attraction to "jumpstart" a relationship.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 22, 2013 9:10 PM GMT
    Erik101 said
    scaredmidget said
    Piers40 saidOk, quick question that - to me - seems obvious but it's always good to throw it out to others.

    Often I hear gay guys tell me I shouldn't worry so much about getting shape, there's so much more to attractiveness such as confidence. I agree confidence is important. But is it fair to say - generally - men (and not only gay men) need visual cues to get attracted, and generally the physical is what reels people in. Without physical attraction relationships cannot work. Ofcourse to keep guys interested you need something more.

    I like muscled guys - on the whole these guys generally go for other muscled guys. I think it's fair to say it's unlikely with just confidence and an average body they'll take an interest. I know it's very rare that confidence alone attracts me and actually I'd say good looks will get me much more keen to get to known someone (probably to my loss)

    So what I'm asking is are many men deluding themselves by thinking confidence is all you need? My opinion is the guys who believe this the most, sadly are the ones who aren't as physically intact and through necessity see beauty in other ways then a body type (probably smart).


    this is NOT true.


    I think what meant to say is that guys look at physical attraction to "jumpstart" a relationship.


    if a guy only likes you because of how you look and nothing else, then he's ONLY going to be with you as long as he thinks you're attractive. the moment you're not sexy to him anymore, he's probably going to leave you. that's someone that you should stay away.

    to me, i just think if you have a personality, you're bound to end up in a serious relationship with someone in comparison to someone who's looks are better than their personality. it doesn't matter how you look. someone's personality can make them BECOME physically attractive where they weren't so much when you first met them. on the other hand, someone's personality can also make an attractive person unattractive as well. someone can be hot as fuck but their personality completely turns them from a 10 physically to a 0.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 22, 2013 9:39 PM GMT
    You erroneously conflate physical attractiveness with muscularity, as if everybody automatically had the same taste as you.

    Physical attractiveness is not the same as being muscular. Look around you. Lots of guys, even guys who are themselves muscular, prefer twinks, or lean wiry guys, or bears, or nerds, or guys with body art, etc., etc.
  • Piers40

    Posts: 31

    Apr 22, 2013 9:49 PM GMT
    seekonk saidYou erroneously conflate physical attractiveness with muscularity, as if everybody automatically had the same taste as you.

    Physical attractiveness is not the same as being muscular. Look around you. Lots of guys, even guys who are themselves muscular, prefer twinks, or lean wiry guys, or bears, or nerds, or guys with body art, etc., etc.


    On the whole, guys who spend a lot of time in the gym, do prefer other guys who also sculpt their body. Yes there are exceptions but on the whole that is the case. It's not generalising, it's accepting realities.

    I don't conflate muscularity with physical attractiveness, everybody has different tastes, but there are certain looks that appeal to a greater group of people. Thats why generally fat guys are the least desired in the gay world. Yes there are chubby chasers, but it's niche.

    It's tiring people adhering to exceptions rather than seeing things as they are. Most but all straight men love big breasts. Yes some guys don't, but they are in the minority.
  • killercliche

    Posts: 948

    Apr 22, 2013 10:19 PM GMT
    Piers40 said
    So what I'm asking is are many men deluding themselves by thinking confidence is all you need? My opinion is the guys who believe this the most, sadly are the ones who aren't as physically intact and through necessity see beauty in other ways then a body type (probably smart).


    I think the problem with this statement is that confidence is certainly an attractive trait, but what confidence arises from nothing?

    The confidences that I have in myself revolve around skills and accomplishments I've achieved, including improving my physical state. Furthermore, as I make progress in getting fit, my confidence increases.

    From my experience "muscled guys versus confidence" is a misleading idea. If you are attracted to muscular men, and believe you need more confidence in yourself, it would make sense that becoming more physically fit would most likely cause progress in both fields.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 22, 2013 10:49 PM GMT
    Piers40 said
    seekonk saidYou erroneously conflate physical attractiveness with muscularity, as if everybody automatically had the same taste as you.

    Physical attractiveness is not the same as being muscular. Look around you. Lots of guys, even guys who are themselves muscular, prefer twinks, or lean wiry guys, or bears, or nerds, or guys with body art, etc., etc.


    On the whole, guys who spend a lot of time in the gym, do prefer other guys who also sculpt their body


    No, I think your mind has been warped by spending too much time on this site.

    All the muscle guys in my gym actually prefer women (at 6' and only 170 lbs I don't consider myself a muscle guy), and you'd be surprised at how many of them are with women who are nothing to write home about, boobwise, weightwise, and otherwise.

    In gayworld, there is indeed a certain shallow type of circuit muscle queen whose fragile self-image depends on their ability to attract clones of themselves and who hang out in gaggles, or is that flocks (certainly not schools). They are really not worth the work required to constantly prop up their little egos. But probably I am pissing off a lot of people by writing this on a site called realjock.com.

    Don't get me wrong. I am not saying it is shallow or bad to build bigger muscles, or to want someone whom you find attractive and who takes care of themselves (which does not depend on big muscles for lots of guys). But that is not the same thing as trying to build muscle because you want other people to like you and accept you like you were never liked or accepted in high school, which is what a lot of this seems to be about.

    As for what the "average" person wants or not, even if you are right why should anybody care? Nobody should base their life on caring about what the average person wants. I think people should want boyfriends who are awesome people, not "average."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 22, 2013 11:25 PM GMT
    By the way, have you spent time on xtube? If so, you'll know how hard it is to find, among the amateur stuff, videos of muscle guys with muscle guys. It's mostly muscle guys with either pretty average guys or twinks. So if you wnt to talk of averages, maybe you can do your own research there icon_smile.gif
  • TannerMasseur

    Posts: 7893

    Apr 23, 2013 3:03 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidWhy settle for "just" confidence? Search for muscled guys with confidence. icon_wink.gif


    Ditto icon_smile.gif
  • He_Man

    Posts: 906

    Apr 23, 2013 7:46 AM GMT

    For those of you talking about statistics, here's Dylan's - from Noodles and Beef - stats that he's been compiling over the years on which gay cliques like other gay cliques. It's not a true "scientific study," but it is a large sample taken from gay men across the country.

    His gay clique survey numbers and interpretation is below:

    tumblr_lo09sqKZ0K1qbbjkro1_r1_1280.jpg

    UPDATED: I’ve updated the chart to be more readable. The listed percentages are now relative to the average person who took my survey. (eg: Muscle Bears are 27% more into Muscle Bears than most people; Daddies are -20% less into Chubs than most people).

    —————————————————————-

    It’s time to talk about Who’s-into-Who.

    My survey asked folks what kind of men they’re interested in. Using this data, I’ve created an ugly matrix comparing Cliques (left-to-right) with interested ins (top-to-bottom). The number inside each box is the percent of participants who are into the corresponding Clique. This is also colour-coded. RED means they’re most likely into something, BLUE means they’re not interested.

    Let’s begin.

    Muscle Bears are the most desired group. Muscle Bears are also the most exclusive, with 90% of Muscle Bears are into other Muscle Bears.

    The next closest interest are Cubs, but less than half of Muscle Bears are even into them. Ouch.

    Twinks are the least desired group. Even Twinks dislike themselves.

    Chubs (who are physically VERY different from Twinks) are the most interested in Twinks.

    People who don’t identify with any cliques (No Labels on the Matrix) are the most equal-opportunity, followed by Pups and Twinks.

    Most cliques are somewhat into themselves.
    50-65% of Chubs are into cliques that weigh 230lbs or more.

    The survey is ongoing, so please take it if you haven’t already, or tell your gay friends. There are some fringe cliques (Bulls, Wolfs and Gym Bunnies) that I have very little data on, and it would be nice to see how they fit in this chart.

    http://www.studiomoh.com/fun/census/results.php
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 23, 2013 3:25 PM GMT
    He_Man said
    For those of you talking about statistics, here's Dylan's - from Noodles and Beef - stats that he's been compiling over the years on which gay cliques like other gay cliques. It's not a true "scientific study," but it is a large sample taken from gay men across the country.

    His gay clique survey numbers and interpretation is below:

    tumblr_lo09sqKZ0K1qbbjkro1_r1_1280.jpg

    UPDATED: I’ve updated the chart to be more readable. The listed percentages are now relative to the average person who took my survey. (eg: Muscle Bears are 27% more into Muscle Bears than most people; Daddies are -20% less into Chubs than most people).

    —————————————————————-

    It’s time to talk about Who’s-into-Who.

    My survey asked folks what kind of men they’re interested in. Using this data, I’ve created an ugly matrix comparing Cliques (left-to-right) with interested ins (top-to-bottom). The number inside each box is the percent of participants who are into the corresponding Clique. This is also colour-coded. RED means they’re most likely into something, BLUE means they’re not interested.

    Let’s begin.

    Muscle Bears are the most desired group. Muscle Bears are also the most exclusive, with 90% of Muscle Bears are into other Muscle Bears.

    The next closest interest are Cubs, but less than half of Muscle Bears are even into them. Ouch.

    Twinks are the least desired group. Even Twinks dislike themselves.

    Chubs (who are physically VERY different from Twinks) are the most interested in Twinks.

    People who don’t identify with any cliques (No Labels on the Matrix) are the most equal-opportunity, followed by Pups and Twinks.

    Most cliques are somewhat into themselves.
    50-65% of Chubs are into cliques that weigh 230lbs or more.

    The survey is ongoing, so please take it if you haven’t already, or tell your gay friends. There are some fringe cliques (Bulls, Wolfs and Gym Bunnies) that I have very little data on, and it would be nice to see how they fit in this chart.

    http://www.studiomoh.com/fun/census/results.php


    I once read on another gay thread that you have to look like what you want to get with. I think that holds true for the most desired groups. Muscle likes Muscle, Bears like Bears, etc. This breaks down for those groups that are less desired, but even in those cases they all seem to hang around each other.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 23, 2013 4:11 PM GMT
    I think the above chart pigeonholes gay men way to much. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten laid by hottie because I look "straight" yet that isn't on the chart anywhere...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 23, 2013 4:14 PM GMT
    Chainers saidI think the above chart pigeonholes gay men way to much. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten laid by hottie because I look "straight" yet that isn't on the chart anywhere...


    Lol, no really. icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 23, 2013 4:20 PM GMT
    Chainers saidI think the above chart pigeonholes gay men way to much. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten laid by hottie because I look "straight" yet that isn't on the chart anywhere...


    Exactly.

    Rightly or wrongly, in my experience that's a category many gay guys prefer even more than muscles.

    Most gay men I know, including myself, don't fit on the chart either. I think it may be targeted at the bear subculture. I think most guys don't even know what the categories are supposed to mean. What's a jock-type soccer player or swimmer or runner type? What's the common circuit queen muscle guy who's not a bear or a pup or an otter? There's not even a category for those, and they are quite common.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 23, 2013 4:29 PM GMT
    By the way, "confidence" is overrated. The hottest guys are the ones who don't know how hot they are and are humble. A big ego is a big turnoff.
  • He_Man

    Posts: 906

    Apr 23, 2013 5:18 PM GMT
    blkbodybdr said
    He_Man said



    I once read on another gay thread that you have to look like what you want to get with. I think that holds true for the most desired groups. Muscle likes Muscle, Bears like Bears, etc. This breaks down for those groups that are less desired, but even in those cases they all seem to hang around each other.


    I just saw this on my Facebook, and it reminded me of this:

    531800_448867011854784_201139476_n.png
  • ROYCE13

    Posts: 315

    Apr 23, 2013 5:36 PM GMT
    we are all different, and like different things, but I do think, from reading comments and profiles, that the majority of gay men have to narrow of a view of what they like or what they are attracted to, at least in what they say and what they write, what they actual get might be a contradiction. I never think of myself as a bear (i have a hair on my chest and legs) or a muscle guy ( I do have muscles) but I do think of myself as a man. I do not limit my preferences, I have dated so called types: muscle, bear, skinny, old, young, geek, but I do not look at them in that way. Muscles and confidence are not always needed. I do find confidence sexy, but I find a smile, posture, an accent, intelligence sexy as well. I have no definable list as most, except for if they catch my eye in a big way and then there is chemistry and then if my gut tells me go with it, then that is my way. Someone said confidence is over rated and = a big ego and that humbleness is sexy ??? Confidence does not = an ego, there are many types of confidence. A hot, sexy, muscles person can be confident and humble. Confidence is not thinking you are hot, sexy or all that, it is a whole other topic. Guys are limited by their own doings, open up your minds and eyes and take a chance on guys that do not fit your ideal person. No one is ideal, but you can make it ideal.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 23, 2013 5:45 PM GMT
    its funny how I've become more muscular over the years (still alot to go), but ive been receiving attention from a different type of man, more aligned to myself, whereas I used to get more attention from younger guys, now less
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 23, 2013 5:54 PM GMT
    seekonk saidBy the way, "confidence" is overrated. The hottest guys are the ones who don't know how hot they are and are humble. A big ego is a big turnoff.


    I agree with you about humble guys being hot and egocentric guys being a major turn-off. Though I wouldn't necessarily say that confidence means big ego. To me, confidence means being proud of who you are and trusting in your abilities. I like a guy who is confident yet humble, but not one who is over-confident and self-centered.

    I do agree with a lot of your points in this thread though to some degree
  • killercliche

    Posts: 948

    Apr 23, 2013 11:15 PM GMT
    seekonk said
    Chainers said What's a jock-type soccer player or swimmer or runner type? What's the common circuit queen muscle guy who's not a bear or a pup or an otter? There's not even a category for those, and they are quite common.


    That site was updated with a new chart. I think a lot of younger clean cut jock types are considered gym bunnies/gym rats being differentiated mostly by age.
  • muscsportsguy

    Posts: 133

    Apr 23, 2013 11:31 PM GMT
    I've always thought that - gay or straight - there's just a huge difference between how men look at potential mates/dates, and how women look at it. I think a guy's confidence, power, the way he carries himself, etc., are much bigger factors to women. Those factors can take a guy whose appearance would make him a 5, and suddenly he's an 8 or a 9 or a 10.

    With men, I think it's the opposite. I think it starts with physical traits. It's a binary question - do I want to have sex with this person - yes or no? If the answer is yes, then all sorts of other traits become important. But if the answer is no, then I think most men (not all, obviously) will move on.

    So if a guy likes muscles, then the lack of muscles might very well be a non-starter. But if a guys likes muscles and confidence, my opinion would be that usually the muscles are the threshold question, and then confidence comes next.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 23, 2013 11:54 PM GMT
    There's so much talk of confidence here I wonder why people are so obsessed with this subject. People treasure what they don't have it seems...
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Apr 23, 2013 11:58 PM GMT
    It's good to differentiate between "necessary" and "sufficient". Something can be both, either, or neither.

    Most of the time (depending on whom you're interested in): confidence is necessary, but not sufficient. ;)