USA vs Australia

  • Nayro

    Posts: 1825

    Apr 23, 2013 9:33 PM GMT
    So as some of you know, I've been traveling to the USA a couple of times. I love the country, the people (I met) and the scenery! It has always been one of my biggest wishes to live in LA or San diego for a year or something.

    So now is the time to start looking for some options. I'm fairly close to graduating for my masters degree (hopefully July) and then I wanna stay one more summer here and then go... To the USA!.... or not.. I've been checking the American embassy and it's almost impossible to get a visa. There's some kind of visa lottery which I could apply for, I don't really know how that works yet though. The other option is to take a job in the USA that an American can't do. Well I'm only 23 and I'm pretty sure there is not job that I can do and that an American can't do. So that's out of the question. Which leaves the option: I get invited by a business and they arrange my visa. This is my last shot, I will try it through a friend of my father who works at a big company. But if that doesn't work out I should put my focus on another country.

    So then Australia came to my mind. It's relatively easy for a person younger than 30 years of age to get a visa for half a year and it can easily be extended for another 6 months. Sidney would be the city I would go for then.

    Do any of you guys know if it'll be anything like living in for instance San diego or LA? I know LA is way bigger and so on, but Sydney also has great things. Also is gaylife in Sydney good? What would you do?
  • Nayro

    Posts: 1825

    Apr 24, 2013 10:05 AM GMT
    no aussi fans on here?
  • Lander00

    Posts: 6

    Apr 24, 2013 10:10 AM GMT
    Im a sucker for aussies. icon_razz.gif
  • beaujangle

    Posts: 1701

    Apr 24, 2013 10:18 AM GMT
    I would say this; give Australia a go! While US and Australia are obviously different nations, there are also a number of similarities. The wide open spaces, plenty of sunshine, beautiful beaches and generally very safe. And then you fly over to lovely New Zealand!

    Yes, come over here!
  • LuckyGuyKC

    Posts: 2080

    Apr 24, 2013 10:24 AM GMT
    Daelin saidThe other option is to take a job in the USA that an American can't do. Well I'm only 23 and I'm pretty sure there is not job that I can do and that an American can't do. So that's out of the question. Which leaves the option: I get invited by a business and they arrange my visa.

    There are 5 main ways an individual can obtain residency and work authorization in the United States:

    Sponsorship by an Employer
    Investment
    Sponsorship by a close Family Member in the United States
    The Diversity Visa Lottery Program
    Asylum & Refugee Status

    E-3 Visa for Australians

    In 2005, the US announced a new visa called the E-3, for Australians only. The E3 visa allows Australian nationals, along with their spouses and children, to come to the US to work in a specialty occupation.

    This should be welcome news for Australians interested in working in the US. Until now, Australians have had to battle it out with others around the world for the highly desired H1B Visa. Last year only 900 Australians obtained an H1B - now Australians have 10,500 E3 visas just for themselves. A specialty occupation is one that requires a body of knowledge in a professional field, and at least a bachelor's degree or its equivalent, as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States. For Australians interested in the E3 visa, the process is actually quite similar to the H1B visa. You must first find a job with a company who will then sponsor your visa. There are 10,500 E-3 visas available per year.

    Spouses of an E-3 visa holder are permitted to come to the US and work also. A spouse's employment may be in a position other than a specialty occupation.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2013 10:25 AM GMT
    Well I'm not a good source since I only know of Sydney and no other place in Australia, plus I'm not an avid clubber/bar goer either.
    Generally since Australia is much smaller, really the only place to meet other gay men in Sydney is the gay bars/clubs and it's very much just hook up city.
    If that's what you're after in terms of dating then I suppose you will like it.
    I suppose they can be as shallow as any other gay men in the U.S but since you only find them in one place in Sydney, the shallowness might come across more ... concentrated.
    Not saying it for fact though since I avoid those places anyway.

    In terms of work, yeah I'd say Sydney is probably the better city for employment since it's very multicultural and generally has more jobs to offer.
    It's also the reason why it's the most expensive city to live in Australia.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2013 10:27 AM GMT
    I'm unable to make an overall conclusion.
    America they say is the gate way to heaven lol but I also love Australia, I think Australians are great people, I have a couple of friends from sydney and their zesty energy is infectious not to talk of the amazing sexicon_wink.gif
    I've always dreamt of living in LA but getting a US visa can be a nightmare, Australia on the other hand isn't as difficult and I think might also have a lot to offer.
    I keep entering the visa lottery programe and hopefully I win this year, if not might have to go on and chase Australia ,but I need someone to pls warn me before hand if Australia is racist lol
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    Apr 24, 2013 10:35 AM GMT
    First, I would disregard comments that groups of people are shallow.

    I was going to suggest considering deferring your moving for a while and trying to get with a multinational firm in Europe which has good potential to assign you to positions in the US. That might be more feasible if your degree were in another field, such as business or finance.

    Another possibility - Does your university have any relationship with universities in the US that would facilitate some type of study abroad? Might need to get into another Masters or PhD program for that.

    Still another idea - Apply to a university in the US, LA in particular. Means getting another degree, but you can make more contacts which could lead to employment later. If finances are a factor, you can research various options in that area as well.

    Good luck.
  • Beastmode

    Posts: 213

    Apr 24, 2013 11:03 AM GMT
    If you want to look into Australia check out the 457 Visa.

    There is much more to Australia than Sydney. Melbourne is absolutely fantastic. I'd live there if I could. Brisbane is coming into its own too.

    If you want a US comparison then I've heard people equate:

    San Fran to Melbourne, LA to Sydney and San Diego to Brisbane.

    Having been to both LA and San Diego recently I kind of get what they are saying.

    But honestly if you are concentrating on your career is it so important how gay a city is?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2013 11:27 AM GMT
    I'm scared about this topic given past experience with US members putting Australia down.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2013 12:05 PM GMT
    "That Americans can't do" you mean white-collar Americans, right?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2013 12:09 PM GMT
    ozgreenguy saidI'm scared about this topic given past experience with US members putting Australia down.

    Really? My experience is that the majority of Americans in general, and RJ members in particular, have very favorable views of Australia & Australians. I know I do.

    As for the OP's question, he might consider Australia since he's already been to the US. And a year in LA or SD could get old real quick. We do have a friend who stays with us a few weeks around the holidays each year from the Netherlands, to escape the winter, but I don't think even he would want to be here in Florida for an entire 12 months.

    His answer may need to be driven by job or school opportunities throughout the US, rather than first picking a certain place and then trying to find something to do there to obtain his visa. What is the Masters Degree? Fields like business or tech could also help to direct his search.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Apr 24, 2013 12:51 PM GMT
    oz has wombo... but it also has pattycakes
    'mericah has all sorts of cray-cray, but we do have bicepmike

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2013 1:05 PM GMT
    calibro saidoz has wombo... but it also has pattycakes
    'mericah has all sorts of cray-cray, but we do have bicepmike


    *hugs* to Calibro
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    Apr 24, 2013 1:10 PM GMT
    Australia like fucking duh
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2013 1:12 PM GMT
    LuckyGuyKC said

    E-3 Visa for Australians


    The OP is not Australian, so that's immediately not possible.

    To the OP: I'm an Australian living in the US, so I have some perspective - and would recommend the US for this trip (but def Australia in the future!)

    I like the ideas suggested socalfitness: Student Visa to US, or if you are ready to work, go via a European multi-national. Inter-region transfers in the big consulting firms (Accenture, Deloitte, etc) for account/finance can be straightforward once you have some experience under your belt - and there's a role on the other side (that's the dependency, of course - AND that a valid US work visa can be obtained on your behalf). The Aussie young persons working visa is definitely easier, but will it work for a job in your field (and keep in mind you are competing against thousands of UK/European/Canadian folks for hospitality / service jobs).

    In terms of living, I'm assuming you are in the Netherlands and probably have family there, so Australia will be tough: it's isolated and while you'll have the time of your life, you are long way from Europe and mainland USA. Asia is relatively 'close' but your enjoyment there will depend on your passions and interests.

    I'd also consider Chicago or a city on the East Coast (NYC, Philly, Boston, DC) if you're looking for a world-class city, a gay scene, but having direct flights home to Europe. It all depends on how much you want to travel, of course. The Australian and West Coast USA beaches can be spectacular, but those of us here on the East Coast make do with some decent summer trips either in or near our cities, or down to Florida, SC, etc. I'm aussie, I love the beach, and OF COURSE I miss Australian beaches, but I 'make do' with some great beaches in and around Fort Lauderdale, and the odd trip to Asbury Park, Ptown or Rehoboth, etc.

    Finally, and the most major point, the cost of living in Australia is at an all-time high. While wages have seen growth, the cost of electricals, rent, property, etc has been described as astronomical - plenty of articles in the Australian media on it if you do a search, and even still it's healthily debated (some Aussies maintain cost of living is just fine). The aussie dollar is strong against the US, but this has caused issues locally. I just know that when I go home to Oz these days, I'm astounded by the prices, even considering the poor exchange rate these days. The cost of living in NYC is cheaper based on my own personal expenditure and current income.

    PM me if you want anything else specific.

    P.S: I don't agree that LA & Sydney are similar. World's apart in almost every aspect barring perhaps weather.
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    Apr 24, 2013 1:24 PM GMT
    MA3000 saidWell I would say L.A, but for dating..... L.A gays are really shallow, and they know it, and don't care either. Australia in generel might be better.


    Ummm. No.
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    Apr 24, 2013 1:26 PM GMT
    ozgreenguy saidI'm scared about this topic given past experience with US members putting Australia down.


    The two countries and their people are so similar its frightening. Minus the accent and a few store chains, Sydney could be LA. Im not sure how one could put down the other when they really are so close.
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    Apr 24, 2013 1:55 PM GMT
    When I was about your age I was facing the same choice. I ended up going to America, but all in all I should have gone to Australia at the time.

    America's immigration system is a giant mess. The country is well aware of this, but it's taking forever to make any change. Practically speaking, the system is designed to deal with [i]unwanted[/i[ immigrants and mostly limits you, instead of empowering you. if you go for a student visa, for instance, your ability to work will be severely limited, while you will have to pay full tuition at the school of your choice. Unless you have money to sink into your year abroad, not such a great idea.

    From the perspective of living, you will probably feel much more at home in Australia than in America. America has a very distinct, almost alien culture, while Australia's is much closer to your native Dutch (I am German-Italian). That's not to imply that one culture is better than the other - but they are different enough that a short-but-not-tourist-short stay will force you to learn a ton of new ways of dealing with things like dating and sex.

    As far as America goes, I wouldn't move to L.A. Again, this is based on your particular circumstances: the city is enormous and you spend a ton of time just getting from A to B. I moved to San Diego and occasionally go to L.A. for fun. Absolutely worth it.

    Depending on how often you want to go back to Europe, you should look into staying on the East Coast (flights are more frequent, shorter, and cheaper). There you probably want to stay North of the Mason-Dixon Line, or in South Florida.

    In Australia, I would probably prefer Brisbane (smashing weather, but conservative to a fault) or Melbourne (quieter, but rainy) to Sydney. But it's just a minor preference, and Sydney is absolutely gorgeous.
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    Apr 24, 2013 2:49 PM GMT
    themachine saidAs far as America goes, I wouldn't move to L.A. Again, this is based on your particular circumstances: the city is enormous and you spend a ton of time just getting from A to B. I moved to San Diego and occasionally go to L.A. for fun. Absolutely worth it.

    You qualified your comment saying based on circumstances, but I still disagree. The overall size of LA is not a factor if you choose to live near to where you work or go to school. Also, someone from Europe may prefer the diversity, etc. found in LA, even in individual neighborhoods. (San Diego now has traffic issues as well.)
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    Apr 24, 2013 2:54 PM GMT
    themachine saidWhen I was about your age I was facing the same choice. I ended up going to America, but all in all I should have gone to Australia at the time.

    America's immigration system is a giant mess. The country is well aware of this, but it's taking forever to make any change. Practically speaking, the system is designed to deal with [i]unwanted[/i[ immigrants and mostly limits you, instead of empowering you. if you go for a student visa, for instance, your ability to work will be severely limited, while you will have to pay full tuition at the school of your choice. Unless you have money to sink into your year abroad, not such a great idea.

    .


    So is Austrailia's Its a hot topic there. Google 457 visa.
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    Apr 24, 2013 3:41 PM GMT
    in the EXACT same situation. finish school in 4weeks. but an american in nyc. going to oz. no jobs in cali, and theyre fake
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    Apr 24, 2013 5:26 PM GMT
    I am Aussie working in the U.S since 1990 . Visa wasn't a problem for me as i was married to a U.S citizen my ex-wife , we first did leave for 5 years in Australia , but she hated it , enhance her return to the U.S with me tagging along .
    Americans are great people , this country has been very good to me too , and don't regret the decision , but i should mention than i share my life equally between the 2 countries , which makes it easier .
    The choice , if you want to just move abroad for a year , choose any of those 2 countries , both will deliver visas to competent people .
    If you want to move definitely to a new country , choose Australia , there are more opportunities for a young man like you , some have said the cost of living in Australia is more expensive than the U.S , it is true , but salaries are a lot higher and your healthcare is covered by the government , and believe me , healthcare in the U.S is extremely costly ...
    Now if you are a nature lover , Australia should be your choice ..
    When it comes to gay dating , i would say is the same in both country , it depends where you are residing ...
    Best of luck to you mate
    Cheers
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    Apr 24, 2013 5:27 PM GMT
    I might consider South Africa as well in your shoes, if you like that kind of lifestyle and weather. The cost of living is relatively low. The men are very hot, more friendly to strangers generally than in the U.S., and being Dutch you'll even understand Afrikaans. South Africa has gay marriage so if you meet someone you can even immigrate on that basis if you want, if it comes to that.