Polls show Proposition 8 to pass

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 3:50 AM GMT
    As others have pointed out, the latest polls show that California's Proposition 8 is likely to pass.

    In the last three weeks, those of us here in California have been barraged with "attack" ads that are clearly designed to evoke fear and loathing, and to exaggerate homophobic fears. The ads all feature a little kid coming home from school to tell mommy (showing shock, disgust and concern) that he/she just learned that girls can marry another princess, or boys can marry a prince.

    Then there is some dufus Professor (or so he is portrayed) who comes on and emphatically states that if Prop 8 fails, then all the schools will be teaching kids about gay marriage, The way it's phrased, it almost seems like kids will get a primer on gay sex, almost.

    From other threads on the Forums we've seen a parallel. The tactic is based upon irrational fears and homophobia. Read what this guy said in a post on a website devoted to the latest Prop 8 polls.

    :,,,If prop 8 does not pass, all the schools will have to teach homosexuality, bisexuality, transsexuality, etc from kindergarten up. This is a tactic, they use the word of "tolerance" to brainwash the kids. Purpose is to desensitize them so when they grow up, those propositions like legalize drugs, prostitution, lower sex age, polygamy, incest, even bestiality will easily pass without resistance..."

    It's frightening, and sad, but we saw the same kind of rhetoric spewed by the far right in their anti-Obama rhetoric.....all grounded in xenophobic fear. This is homphobic panic or fear.

    But, alas....if it becomes part of the constitution, it will be codified.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 7:54 AM GMT


    ...so, what happens to all the gay marriages that have taken place? Are they all instantly annulled? Will and can they sue?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 8:57 AM GMT
    Maybe people in the US should look to what has happened in Canada since gay marriage was legalized. Society has not come to an end. These scare tactics are really pathetic, but unfortunately with some people seem to work.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 3:31 PM GMT
    SurrealLife saidMaybe people in the US should look to what has happened in Canada since gay marriage was legalized. Society has not come to an end. These scare tactics are really pathetic, but unfortunately with some people seem to work.


    Unfortunately, easier said than done...... icon_cry.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 3:50 PM GMT
    The latest poll to be released was made for the Knights of Columbus and conducted by Marist college, both Catholic institutions. Marist is one of the most inaccurate polling firms in the market today. So, I wouldn't trust their results without confirmation from a more reliable pollster.

    Also, two Catholic institutions polling support for a amendment that discriminates against homosexuals? That is called push polling.

    But give money, volunteer time.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 4:03 PM GMT
    I'm not in California but do you believe that you "No on Prop 8 groups" did enough?

    I even think Ellen's effort is too little too late.


    I think its disgusting they'd come this far only to take right away from people. Disgusting.. I hope minds change before the vote.
  • TallGWMvballe...

    Posts: 1925

    Oct 21, 2008 4:09 PM GMT
    Unfortunately for reasons unknown, the NO on Prop. 8 campaign started very late and with very little funding/support from our community.

    Many good people here on RJ are actively engaged in helping bu again, it seems we all joined late,

    PLEASE all that are reading this spread the word to everyone you know to contact the ones who might be on the fence or not understand the issue... we need to reach our families and their friends.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 4:16 PM GMT
    Well, I, and my boyfriend, and Olden from right here on RJ, put our time, money, and effort into making this PSA. I've posted it on two other threads now, and nobody says a word. Please copy the spot from YouTube and repost everywhere you can. Hey, I figure it can't hurt, right?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 4:25 PM GMT
    The yes, campaign has done some effective advertising -- including the education spots mentioned by fastprof. Another one that gets me is a law sign that has the following: Proposition 8 = Free Speech. Now where's the logic in that?

    I really haven't seen anything on TV from the no side. I do know that they aren't as well funded as the yes campaign.

    I don't know how accurate the polling is at this point in time, but would imagine that it would be close either way.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 4:33 PM GMT
    wrerick saidI really haven't seen anything on TV from the no side. I do know that they aren't as well funded as the yes campaign.


    They've begun to appear, so maybe there was a strategy after all. In fact, there are quite a few of them, and they all have a very calm, even tone, and center on equal rights.

    Several of them start out with pointing out that no public school is required to teach anything about marriage at all, straight or gay. They point out that the Yes on 8 ads are purposefully spewing misinformation.

    We'll see if the late offensive by the No on 8 forces are effective.

    Apparently the most effective "icon" for the Yes on 8 campaign was the inclusion of a snip of Gavin Newsome, Mayor of SF, saying almost maniacally, "...they can't stop us now..." referring to the anti-gay-marriage forces. That was featured in ads all through September.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 4:47 PM GMT
    my friends and I have been donating what we can, and definitely over the weekend (with the donated amounts being doubled)

    I've found that talking to my heterosexual friends is helpful. I've been having conversations with my nursing classmates, and the commonality seems to be that they're not quite sure what Prop 8 is to begin with, thus they're more likely to be swayed by the ads, especially the false claims about education.

    RJ posted the rebuttals (which are AWESOME defenses btw) and i've been handing them out to friends to tell their friends who will tell their friends. Putting my face on the issue i think helps them to think on a "close to home" perspective

    I hope the late offensive from our side will help. I wonder if Mayor Newsom will put out a PSA rebutting the claims and maybe counteracting their misuse of his statements?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 5:00 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]zeebyaboi said[/cite]Well, I, and my boyfriend, and Olden from right here on RJ, put our time, money, and effort into making this PSA. I've posted it on two other threads now, and nobody says a word. Please copy the spot from YouTube and repost everywhere you can. Hey, I figure it can't hurt, right?
    quote]

    Congrats on a nice video. I did not remember until I read this thread that I know some straight people in California and they are in my address book. I will send them all this clever vid and see what they have to say.

    Good luck!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 21, 2008 5:08 PM GMT
    Thank you, so much, Alexander!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2008 7:04 AM GMT
    fastprof saidApparently the most effective "icon" for the Yes on 8 campaign was the inclusion of a snip of Gavin Newsome, Mayor of SF, saying almost maniacally, "...they can't stop us now..." referring to the anti-gay-marriage forces. That was featured in ads all through September


    Glad to see there are TV adds, just haven't seen them, but not all that surprising as I don't watch all that much television, but then again I have seen and heard much of the yes on both TV and radio -- including a number of the Spanish speaking stations.

    Something else that I think would be effective is a line from the Desmond Tutu in a film on religion and homosexuality where he states that, or something along these lines that ... God did not make you black and say, you should have been white; he did not make you a woman and say, you should have been a man; nor did God make you gay and say, you should have been straight ... (he goes on to say he made you what you are) But I think that would be an effective line to use.
  • TallGWMvballe...

    Posts: 1925

    Oct 22, 2008 7:12 AM GMT
    zeebyaboi saidWell, I, and my boyfriend, and Olden from right here on RJ, put our time, money, and effort into making this PSA. I've posted it on two other threads now, and nobody says a word. Please copy the spot from YouTube and repost everywhere you can. Hey, I figure it can't hurt, right?



    Nice job Zeeb.... I hope it helps
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2008 5:21 PM GMT
    I think the organizations that oppose Prop 8 have been way too passive about it and should have started the fundraising and putting ads on TV a long long time ago. Maybe it is just me who sees it this way but I feel that the organizations that are pro-LGBT rights are way too reactive and passive about everything. I hear more about people for Prop 8 than I do people against it and I also see this in other issues pertaining gay rights.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2008 6:12 PM GMT
    And half the people afraid their kids will "learn about gay marriage" at school don't realize they've already learned about it picking up Mommy's People magazine, or watching ET, or catching Family Guy in one room while Mom and Pop are watching HouseHunters in the den.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2008 6:27 PM GMT
    Okay, I just read something yesterday, and I don't know if it's accurate or not, so can some of y'all chime in on this: I've read that Arnold says that if Prop 8 does pass, that he will VETO it. Is this correct or not? I hope it is, but ya never know...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2008 6:41 PM GMT
    My friends back was an activists for equal rights for blacks many years ago. He supports the struggle for the same rights for gays be he doesn't think were going to get far fast.

    "To much, to soon, not enough support"

    I tend to agree. Unlike the civil rights struggle for blacks gays have not been a mainstream issue for very long and we have not really worked to change peoples perceptions of the homosexual population. We also don't seem to support our own causes much in any community sense. Hell I hate admit it but my friends and I had no clue about the impending court decision here in CT until it happened. Seems like we don't pay attention to things until victory is near or we are backed in a corner.

    I'm sure there are many wonderful people who have long worked to advance a positive image of gays in the US but I think it's to soon. Another couple decades and society will be rid of many of the most anti-gay elements.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2008 6:48 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    ...so, what happens to all the gay marriages that have taken place? Are they all instantly annulled? Will and can they sue?


    im pretty sure that they will get grandfathered in.
    so, if you're not married now, better start looking.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2008 6:48 PM GMT
    I had no doubt at all that it would pass, who are you kidding, I mean really!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2008 6:49 PM GMT
    zeebyaboi saidOkay, I just read something yesterday, and I don't know if it's accurate or not, so can some of y'all chime in on this: I've read that Arnold says that if Prop 8 does pass, that he will VETO it. Is this correct or not? I hope it is, but ya never know...


    It's not correct. The governor cannot veto this -- is it outside the legislative process. He did however, veto legislation that extended marriage to gays and lesbians when it was passed on two different occasions by the CA legislature.

    It's appalling to me that we need a 2/3 vote of the legislature to pass an annual budget in CA, BUT our constitution can be amended by a simple majority vote initiated by a proposition (and largely funded by out-of-state interests).
  • metta

    Posts: 39077

    Oct 22, 2008 7:10 PM GMT
    If it does pass, I want revenge for the lies and fear that the supporters of prop 8 have created.

    I want a campaign to teach children that love is love. That men can marry men, women can marry women, and women can marry men. It is all good.

    Whether it is getting people to remove the rainbow stickers and replace them with bumper stickers that say such things, etc.

    Kids learn a lot of things outside of schools.


    I also would want people to realize they created a group of 2nd Class Citizens. Something to the effect:

    I may be a 2nd Class Citizen
    but at least I'm not one of the
    ones that just allowed it to happen.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2008 8:25 PM GMT
    Discussion is awesome

    Action is even better

    I don't even live in California ... but I just donated to the No on 8 group...

    I figure if out of state interests can support the Yes on 8 group, why not sent out of state money to help defeat it ... and help educate Californians on how 8 would impact ALL people's lives if it passes.

    It felt amazing. Try it! And I got a cool thank you note as a result...

    "Thank you for helping us flood the airwaves with our new ad.

    Research shows our messages beat their lies, but only if we
    can get them on the air enough to have an impact."


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2008 8:31 PM GMT
    When I made my donation, I wanted to do it on behalf of Larry Craig, but couldn't find his email addie. From his website, you can only contact him via the webpage and he doesn't publish his email address. Oh well, donation made nonetheless.