Reason we have affirmative action: black woman pretends to be white, job offers skyrocket

  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Apr 28, 2013 5:14 AM GMT
    http://www.techyville.com/2012/11/news/unemployed-black-woman-pretends-to-be-white-job-offers-suddenly-skyrocket/

    Yolanda SpiveyTwo years ago, I noticed that Monster.com had added a “diversity questionnaire” to the site. This gives an applicant the opportunity to identify their sex and race to potential employers. Monster.com guarantees that this “option” will not jeopardize your chances of gaining employment. You must answer this questionnaire in order to apply to a posted position—it cannot be skipped. At times, I would mark off that I was a Black female, but then I thought, this might be hurting my chances of getting employed, so I started selecting the “decline to identify” option instead. That still had no effect on my getting a job. So I decided to try an experiment: I created a fake job applicant and called her Bianca White.

    First, I created an email account and resume for Bianca. I kept the same employment history and educational background on her resume that was listed on my own. But I removed my home phone number, kept my listed cell phone number, and changed my cell phone greeting to say, “You have reached Bianca White. Please leave a message.” Then I created an online Monster.com account, listed Bianca as a White woman on the diversity questionnaire, and activated the account.

    That very same day, I received a phone call. The next day, my phone line and Bianca’s email address, were packed with potential employers calling for an interview. I was stunned. More shocking was that some employers, mostly Caucasian-sounding women, were calling Bianca more than once, desperate to get an interview with her. All along, my real Monster.com account was open and active; but, despite having the same background as Bianca, I received no phone calls.


    Racism is real. Case closed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 28, 2013 6:44 AM GMT
    asians-large.jpg

    Yeah, it's especially bad in Education. It really pisses me off how the Ivy League pushes Asians out who could easily get it in if they were white or black or latino. It's a huge reason I will never go to one. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Apr 28, 2013 7:29 AM GMT
    Dekiruman said

    Yeah, it's especially bad in Education. It really pisses me off how the Ivy League pushes Asians out who could easily get it in if they were white or black or latino. It's a huge reason I will never go to one. icon_rolleyes.gif


    There's really no good answer (that I know of) on how to solve this. On the one hand I agree that it's unfair to purposely not admit a qualified Asian student simply because there are "too many" Asians. But on the other hand you want your student body to at least be somewhat representative of the national population and you can't do that when 40+% of your student body is Asian when Asian Americans are less than 5% of the population.

    Schools base their reputation partially on how many minority students attend and will do what they can to make the numbers seem as high as possible. For example, I go to Stanford and one of the most often quoted statistics by the administration is how over 65% of the student body are students of color. However, walking around campus, you would not get the impression that only a 1/3 of students are white. I can't prove it, but I do believe that Stanford definitely fudges the numbers.
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    Apr 28, 2013 7:42 AM GMT
    Dekiruman said

    Yeah, it's especially bad in Education. It really pisses me off how the Ivy League pushes Asians out who could easily get it in if they were white or black or latino. It's a huge reason I will never go to one. icon_rolleyes.gif


    A huge reason? That's a stretch.

    The biggest reason is frankly that students with perfect grades and standardized test scores are a dime a dozen, regardless of race. There are tens of thousands of students who could "easily get in" who are nonetheless rejected. College admissions are about distinguishing yourself.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Apr 28, 2013 12:44 PM GMT
    CFL_Oakland said
    Dekiruman said

    Yeah, it's especially bad in Education. It really pisses me off how the Ivy League pushes Asians out who could easily get it in if they were white or black or latino. It's a huge reason I will never go to one. icon_rolleyes.gif


    A huge reason? That's a stretch.

    The biggest reason is frankly that students with perfect grades and standardized test scores are a dime a dozen, regardless of race. There are tens of thousands of students who could "easily get in" who are nonetheless rejected. College admissions are about distinguishing yourself.


    So if all things are equal, i.e. "perfect grades and standardized test scores [that] are a dime a dozen regardless of race," then why is the distribution of enrollment by race unequal? And why is it especially unequal amongst Ivy League schools? That's what Dekiruman pointed out!
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    Apr 28, 2013 1:18 PM GMT
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Apr 28, 2013 1:28 PM GMT
    In the civil service system, the opposite is true.

    Of the 6 employees on my work shift, I am often the only "Pale Male" on the shift, surrounded by male and female "People Of Color" co-workers.


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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 28, 2013 1:47 PM GMT
    Racism is real?

    Do we really need a post to "prove" what is already self-evident?

    Then again, we probably do
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    Apr 28, 2013 2:19 PM GMT
    In hiring we always hire the best candidate for the job, regardless of skin color or anything else. That said, our diverse offices are almost all white or Asian, males and females. Then again we don't have an equal opportunity necessity or restriction.
  • Muscles25

    Posts: 394

    Apr 28, 2013 2:24 PM GMT
    "Racism is real. Case closed."

    This has to be the dumbest thread ever started on this blog. Hands down. Period.

    What a waste.
  • AvgJock

    Posts: 123

    Apr 28, 2013 2:31 PM GMT
    The solution to racism is not affirmative action -- which just makes the problem worse. The solution to one problem is not to discriminate against another person who had nothing to do with the original racism.

    Studies have also shown that where candidates for a job are equal (or even less) the more attractive person is hired every time. Should we have affirmative action for less attractive/ugly people?

    You can't legislate what people think or feel. It's just not possible and you may end up making the situation even worse. Because by trying to help one "aggrieved" group you end up creating another "aggrieved" group and then you have twice as many aggrieved people.
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Apr 28, 2013 2:47 PM GMT
    Perhaps it is easier that America just do the obvious: always place whites at the back of the bus. ALWAYS. When hiring, make sure you first hire any applicant of color before you hire a "white" caucasian. Keep in mind many hispanics are "labeled" as white by the U.S. government. Ignore this label when hiring hispanics, place them near the head of the applicant line.

    I personally think this plan is inline with the view of multiple minorities. Why not just go fir it? They, minorities, are always more capable than whites, so government believes. icon_biggrin.gif
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Apr 28, 2013 3:01 PM GMT
    the fact that the word "minority" is used to refer to people who aren't white speaks to implicit racism in our social fabric. if you're white, it's incredibly difficult to empathize with the true cost of being of a parallel culture, just as it is for males to understand embedded misogyny, heterosexuals to understand heteronormativity, and subscribers to the american dream ethos to conceptualize the actual reality of classism. to understand these things truly would unravel the heimats of most peoples worlds.
  • DR2K

    Posts: 346

    Apr 28, 2013 3:11 PM GMT
    If only they had affirmitive action for gays.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 28, 2013 3:15 PM GMT
    that isn't why we have affirmative action. We have affirmative action because fifty years ago if you tried to sue someone for discriminatory hiring practices the judge laughed at you. And the White jury smiled and tried to hide their contempt
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    Apr 28, 2013 3:25 PM GMT
    This is a tough one. On the one had we should discriminate on the basis of race or implement racial quotas. This leads to lower income whites being denied access. Affirmative action doesn't promote lower candidates, that's a misconception. What it does do is offer a leg up to those that are capable. I find it funny that some people (obviously not all) assume that minorities that attend a top tier university are somehow there only because of affirmative action. It is true that African American sounding names are less likely to get an interview (with the same qualification). It is also true that if you include a picture, African Americans are least likely to get hired. So obviously, and this should be a no brainer, racism still exists.

    With that said, lower income Whites are likely to suffer. They faced the same lack of opportunity as poor minorities. However, not ever minority is poor. I grew up upper middle class, as did ALL my friends. So poverty is obviously not the same ethnic/racial background.

    I feel that economic discrimination is just as prevalent and is just as insidious.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 28, 2013 3:31 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]CFL_Oakland said[/cite]
    Dekiruman said

    Yeah, it's especially bad in Education. It really pisses me off how the Ivy League pushes Asians out who could easily get it in if they were white or black or latino. It's a huge reason I will never go to one. icon_rolleyes.gif


    A huge reason? That's a stretch.

    Would love to hear how you came to that conclusion.
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    Apr 28, 2013 3:32 PM GMT
    calibro saidthe fact that the word "minority" is used to refer to people who aren't white speaks to implicit racism in our social fabric. if you're white, it's incredibly difficult to empathize with the true cost of being of a parallel culture, just as it is for males to understand embedded misogyny, heterosexuals to understand heteronormativity, and subscribers to the american dream ethos to conceptualize the actuality reality of classism. to understand these things truly would unravel the heimats of most peoples worlds.


    I like this post.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Apr 28, 2013 3:37 PM GMT
    calibro saidthe fact that the word "minority" is used to refer to people who aren't white speaks to implicit racism in our social fabric. if you're white, it's incredibly difficult to empathize with the true cost of being of a parallel culture, just as it is for males to understand embedded misogyny, heterosexuals to understand heteronormativity, and subscribers to the american dream ethos to conceptualize the actuality reality of classism. to understand these things truly would unravel the heimats of most peoples worlds.



    I would tend to agree with this analysis. The media references a "minority" as such. We get reminded. Then again, for many, being able to see beyond their own "social day" can be a challenge for them. I doubt if they would take any initiative to try and emphasize with others, especially those of a different social or ethnic background.
  • O5vx

    Posts: 3154

    Apr 28, 2013 3:48 PM GMT
    Affirmative action can be assume to be a way to ensure that certain societal ideals are inculcated into minority societies, especially those marginalized on the basis of skin pigmentation. I would much rather argue that the sole reason why we have affirmative for certain part of the society is to continue to maintain the same old rhetoric that minorities in societies lack the upper hand so let us propel them up simply because they are incapable of doing so. Whereas, the opposite is true for certain group of races where are generally assume to posses more intellectual capabilities than those who the labels are placed on. We can not fully remove the labelling of what it entails until we can fully grasp the extent that affirmative action as derail progress rather than promote it in the area of racial equality.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Apr 28, 2013 3:58 PM GMT
    wow, i guess some things are harder to change. wow, people still wonder why so many minorities people are concerned about losing affirmative action. this is why we want it around
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    Apr 28, 2013 5:22 PM GMT
    I work at a particular {top Forbes ranked university} where for the past 15-20 years at least two sets of numbers are used to score applicants' academic qualifications.

    Most interestingly is that the cutoff scores for minorities (which include specifically applicants of African, Native American, or Hispanic ancestry) are significantly lower than the cutoff for White and Asian-Americans.

    To me as a human, I'd find this offensive because it that one grouping of races or ethnicities is inherently unable to rise to the same standard of academic achievement than another.

    And of course, these numbers are disregarded when it comes to admitting applicants who can lob a football or catch said football. ;)

    Racism, and reverse racism, and just plain mutton-headed idiocy are very much alive and well in 21st century American hiring and collegiate admissions processes.
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    Apr 28, 2013 5:23 PM GMT
    exact same thing happened to me a few years ago. since i am part jewish i claimed that i was jewish. interviews became a dime a dozen.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 28, 2013 5:26 PM GMT
    calibro saidthe fact that the word "minority" is used to refer to people who aren't white speaks to implicit racism in our social fabric. if you're white, it's incredibly difficult to empathize with the true cost of being of a parallel culture, just as it is for males to understand embedded misogyny, heterosexuals to understand heteronormativity, and subscribers to the american dream ethos to conceptualize the actual reality of classism. to understand these things truly would unravel the heimats of most peoples worlds.


    That comment was thoughtful.
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    Apr 28, 2013 5:44 PM GMT
    tuffguyndc saidwow, i guess some things are harder to change. wow, people still wonder why so many minorities people are concerned about losing affirmative action. this is why we want it around


    Affirmative Action has the potential to lend itself to abuses if it isn't carefully managed - and such criteria for managing an AA program can be quite contentious.

    How can a quota system truly be managed fairly when you have two candidates competing for a position, but one is race-favoured against the other who is merit-favourable?

    How does one set and then re-adjust the standard for AA-based selection programme fairly?

    And lastly, how could fairness be ensured over a long period of time in checking or preventing a given committee or controlling interest over the AA programme from allowing hidden racist or ethnocentrist influences to sway the criteria for an AA programme unfairly in favour of one people group over another?

    I contend that most people do indeed harbour some trace degree of tribalist, racist, or ethnophobic thought - most of us have been educated (to correctly) view these phobias and racism as unproductive, hateful, and just plain wrong.

    But what can be contained and corrected in an individual is much, much harder to overturn when it becomes institutionalized - even something that may have begun with nobler intentions such as affirmative action.


    Honestly, I'd much rather see a merit-based selection process that was truly colour and ethnicity blind.

    Yet we will learn anew that human fears and prejudices are devilish beasts in continual need of being slain.