Is Capitalism Dead....or just a teaspoon of socialism helps the regulations go down?

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    Oct 22, 2008 12:55 AM GMT
    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2008/10/21/romans.is.capitalism.dead.cnn
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    Oct 22, 2008 12:57 AM GMT
    Well...I am one proud American (Over 300 years of family living in North America) who believes in socialism mixed w/ capitalism. The time is right for health care for all, pensions for those work work 40 years etc etc etc

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    Oct 22, 2008 1:11 AM GMT
    sfinboston said(Over 300 years of family living in North America)

    ... a North American Pattison??? .... icon_eek.gif
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    Oct 22, 2008 1:15 AM GMT
    my family was part of the Spanish settlers in the southwest, plus my African & Irish have been here since 1690s.
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    Oct 22, 2008 1:33 AM GMT
    Dutch here, since the 1650s in New Amsterdam (New York City) area. And my concern is that socialism + capitalism = fascism
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    Oct 22, 2008 1:50 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidDutch here, since the 1650s in New Amsterdam (New York City) area. And my concern is that socialism + capitalism = fascism


    that is a leap, sure isnt the case in Europe or canada
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    Oct 22, 2008 1:56 AM GMT
    sfinboston said
    Red_Vespa saidDutch here, since the 1650s in New Amsterdam (New York City) area. And my concern is that socialism + capitalism = fascism


    that is a leap, sure isnt the cash in Europe or canada


    Not modern Europe, but it was in Europe in the last century where the word originated in Italy (from the ancient Roman bundle of rods symbolizing state authority, the fasces). Fascism existed in Italy, Germany and Spain.
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    Oct 22, 2008 6:56 AM GMT
    Ah, but you are forgetting that faggot derives from the same origin as fascism, and also refers to a bundle of sticks, or from those who may have gathered such a bundle. So is a bundle of sticks a symbol of authority or a symbol of the sexual heretic -- as the derivative finnochio still is in Italian?

    Neither capitalism -- and it's worth exploring where the word comes from, particularly those at the bottom end of the spectrum -- nor socialism have rarely existed in what may be called a 'pure' form, and never here in the US. We've always practised a mixture of both. Now that has varied between the two, but the system has been a mixture, and the pendulum has swung bewteen the two.
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    Oct 22, 2008 9:02 AM GMT
    No capitalism will not die, but may have a few more restrictions then it did in the past few years. Until some whizz kid comes along and invents yet another way of getting around the regulations to make a gazillion dollars.
  • GQjock

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    Oct 22, 2008 11:04 AM GMT
    Capitalism die?
    absolutely not

    But what you'll likely have and what we HAVE been getting with the current bunch of criminals in office
    is a restrictive country club type of Capitalism where you have to be voting a certain way ... giving jobs to "certain" people
    basically know where your bread is buttered type of capitalism
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    Oct 22, 2008 1:40 PM GMT
    was it socialism that has caused the latest financial meltdown. I wonder if financial meltdown is a euphemism for we're fucked. it seems to me you could tip to fascism on either side of capitalism or socialism.
  • Aquanerd

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    Oct 22, 2008 2:08 PM GMT
    fogos saidwas it socialism that has caused the latest financial meltdown. I wonder if financial meltdown is a euphemism for we're fucked. it seems to me you could tip to fascism on either side of capitalism or socialism.


    Actually if was a spoonful of fascism added to capitalism, by a President trying to appease his socialist wife. (Yeah it a simplification, but if you are looking for a deeper discussion, get of the gay site, and head to your local university.)

    With the creation of the FM's Banks were given an opportunity to be more cavalier with it mortgage money. People without the means to afford a mortgage, found them self in a position where foreclosure was their only option. Rather than realize that this is a no win situation, the government meddler further, sweeping the problem under the rug, until finally the mound was so big, we couldn't help but trip over it.

    People make choices that determine where they are.

    How many people spend the maximum allowed on a monthly mortgage payment, without saving at least 10% of their pre-tax paycheck?

    How many people used an "interest only mortgage" to afford a big house, gambling that they could sell it for a lot more if hey needed to with in the next "few years."

    How many people think that $400 a month is too high or health insurance premiums, yet spend $100 a week or more to "pnp?" ...or a pair of "Pradas?" ... or payments on that new car."

    How many people try to "play the stock market" with money they could be putting in a "retirement account."

    As soon as everyone understands that "Life is not fair." We will get over most economic issues we face, then move on.

    The truth hurts. "Let the hating begin."
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    Oct 22, 2008 2:53 PM GMT
    aquanerd: ty for the summation


    deregulated capitalism in otherwords? how does this compare to regulated capitalism?

    a trillion $?

    free market systems are not my specialty. but here is what I do know.

    houses are overpriced- I have built them and they cost nowhere near what they are being sold at.
    banking fees
    phone fees
    gas prices

    ....and so on profits are disproportionately high-based on Wall street and Bay street profit talking and bonuses.

    best recent example AIG

    it seems to me that capitalism creates just as much of a dependency as socialism does.




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    Oct 22, 2008 3:26 PM GMT
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agu0LWZrdQrg&refer=home

    This is a report from Bloomberg regarding Collaterized Debt Obligations (CDO) and that they maybe the next area to meltdown. Will this ever end?

    Maybe I should change the response I gave up above.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:41 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    sfinboston said
    Red_Vespa saidDutch here, since the 1650s in New Amsterdam (New York City) area. And my concern is that socialism + capitalism = fascism


    that is a leap, sure isnt the cash in Europe or canada


    Not modern Europe, but it was in Europe in the last century where the word originated in Italy (from the ancient Roman bundle of rods symbolizing state authority, the fasces). Fascism existed in Italy, Germany and Spain.


    Erm - fascism in Spain was a overreaction to socialism - the Nationalists (who won the civil war) defeated the Republicans (socialists). It's a big leap from socialism to fascism.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:51 PM GMT
    I worry that people are debating capitalism, socialism, and fascism while we have a nasty oligarchy already in place and clearly tending to do whatever they damned well please while screwing over the rest of us.
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    Oct 22, 2008 6:05 PM GMT
    You act like this financial mess happened by magic. This market meltdown is a direct result of America's socialists (Democrats) sabotaging us.

    So when Barrack Obama spouts that we can't afford four more years of the economic policies of the past eight years I agree with him. Those policies were Frank Raines and Jamie Gorlick robbing us with the subprime mortgages they swindled investors with and backed by Chris Dodd and Barney Frank. Chris got some money from Fannie and Barney got some lovin.

    You vote Democrat you just reward the thieves who did this.

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    Oct 22, 2008 6:09 PM GMT
    ...also, we in the US don't have shares of these companies. We have no say in the companies at all. So, this is not an act of socialism but an injection of cash into a capitalist system.
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    Oct 22, 2008 11:50 PM GMT
    John43620 saidYou act like this financial mess happened by magic. This market meltdown is a direct result of America's socialists (Democrats) sabotaging us.

    So when Barrack Obama spouts that we can't afford four more years of the economic policies of the past eight years I agree with him. Those policies were Frank Raines and Jamie Gorlick robbing us with the subprime mortgages they swindled investors with and backed by Chris Dodd and Barney Frank. Chris got some money from Fannie and Barney got some lovin.

    You vote Democrat you just reward the thieves who did this.



    John I know you are a Republican but really you should bring a bit more objectivity to this topic. Neither party invented Credit Default Swaps, Collaterized Debt Obligations, nor did they rate the CDOs as Triple A, the rating agencies did.

    No political party put a gun to the CEOs heads as they took on too much risk when they invested in these instruments that had the backing of sub-prime mortgages.

    No political party member stood over a homeowner and told them to sign on the bottom-line on a mortgage that they could not afford if the house prices dropped. Finally neither party coerced Allan Greenspan to keep the prime rate at 1.0% for too long thus starting the whole housing bubble.

    This mess was created for a whole bunch of reasons underpinned by companies trying to maximum their shareholders returns (and their stock options) by throwing out prudent risk management and ignoring what was clearly becoming an asset bubble.

    Not all banks were caught up in this madness. HSBC, Credit Suisse and the Canadian banks are the notable exceptions that come to mind.