PALIN GOVENOR "BIGGER DRAG" ON McCAIN THAN BUSH In Latest NBC Poll

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Oct 22, 2008 12:11 PM GMT
    It was a startling poll released by NBC... Obama up by 10 points, leading in all groups.. including seniors and independents. The Palin Governor viewed negatively, much more so than before in perceived qualifications to be president.

    Even I was amazed at some of what I heard.....
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    Oct 22, 2008 12:25 PM GMT
    I think most people in the US are finally starting to get turned off by the so-called "culture" wars that have plagued politics since the moral majority raised to prominence in the 1980s. Even those that are against gay marriage realize it is not the most pressing issue facing the country. Especially when they look at their latest 401 K report.

    Sarah Palin's evangelical born-again christian views probably made independent voters think "not again, no way". And many female voters who supported Hillary Clinton were offended by the view that they could so easily be manipulated.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:35 PM GMT
    For McCain it must be a bit like trying to swim with panty hose on.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Oct 22, 2008 3:38 PM GMT
    I would take any poll at this stage of the game -- ESPECIALLY from places like ABC and NBC -- with a grain of salt
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:47 PM GMT
    It was actually an NBC/WSJ poll.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:55 PM GMT
    It's appropriate if Palin sinks the McCain campaign, because her choice is a direct reflection on him. Politicians always promise what they'll do once they're in office, and how they'll act, but voters often must judge on what's been done in the past by that politician, and that's easy to distort or forget.

    Not often do voters see a demonstration of decision-making right before their eyes, during the campaign itself. That's what a Vice-Presidential pick provides, and McCain blew this one right in front of everyone.

    Proving the reputation he's had in the US Senate for years of being rash, impulsive, imprudent, erratic, at times bordering on instability. Choosing Palin was an insightful preview of McCain as President, not a comforting proposition.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Oct 22, 2008 4:04 PM GMT
    Looks like a potato, smells like a potato, fries like a potato too! icon_lol.gif
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    Oct 22, 2008 4:18 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidIt's appropriate if Palin sinks the McCain campaign, because her choice is a direct reflection on him. Politicians always promise what they'll do once they're in office, and how they'll act, but voters often must judge on what's been done in the past by that politician, and that's easy to distort or forget.

    Not often do voters see a demonstration of decision-making right before their eyes, during the campaign itself. That's what a Vice-Presidential pick provides, and McCain blew this one right in front of everyone.

    Proving the reputation he's had in the US Senate for years of being rash, impulsive, imprudent, erratic, at times bordering on instability. Choosing Palin was an insightful preview of McCain as President, not a comforting proposition.


    Yep, basically the columnist in the Economist magazine said the exact same thing about three weeks ago. The decision-making process regarding the VP was truly frightening. For such an important decision it was quick, politically cynical, and showed a remarkable lack of insight into the intelligence of the average American female voter.

    Slipshod decision-making was one of the weaknesses of the current administration. I know Presidents need to be decisive, but they have to do their homework and think things through.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Oct 22, 2008 4:24 PM GMT
    You know, this morning while casting my absentee ballot, I was thinking of the irony that the same Maverick that most Republicans disliked 8 years ago are all the rage for these same Republicans in this election. An erratic candidate for an erratic people?
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    Oct 22, 2008 4:25 PM GMT
    SurrealLife said I know Presidents need to be decisive, but they have to do their homework and think things through.


    Which, of course, he didn't do. In fact, they sent a team of lawyers to vet Palin AFTER she was nominated! That level of incompetence in the McCain campaign is just breathtaking.
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    Oct 22, 2008 4:56 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    SurrealLife said I know Presidents need to be decisive, but they have to do their homework and think things through.


    Which, of course, he didn't do. In fact, they sent a team of lawyers to vet Palin AFTER she was nominated! That level of incompetence in the McCain campaign is just breathtaking.


    Exactly, all because she is pro-life. Supposedly McCain wanted Liebermann or Tom Ridge but reluctantly listened to his "advisors" who said he needed to pick a social conservative. He should have fired their asses for that advice. Hell I could have given better advice with one day of prep time!
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    Oct 22, 2008 5:00 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    Which, of course, he didn't do. In fact, they sent a team of lawyers to vet Palin AFTER she was nominated! That level of incompetence in the McCain campaign is just breathtaking.


    It's incredible to me that McCain and/or his advisers did NOT do their homework on Palin. That much is proven.

    Here's my unproven opinion....it shows the hubris of the Republicans.

    They actually thought that by including a woman on the ticket that people would actually consider the McCain ticket progressive. It's because, as you can see by most of the comments of the Republicans in the Forums, their working assumption is that people don' t think....that they react based upon preconceived notions and prejudices.

    Since they believe that Democrats and progressives do not think about issues, then they can base their strategies on that. Then when the strategy doesn't work, then they can evoke all sorts of plots and counter plots about why it did not work. Meanwhile, all this shows is that the Republican power structure didn't think any of this through...from McCain's initial devotion to the Bush years, to his current rejection of those, to the point of almost disrepecting the office of president, by referring to the president as "Bush", to the choice of Palin.

    It' s such a "working principle" for many Republicans that they base their plans of action on that. Also, since they assume "conspiracies" all around them by liberals, they can justify unfounded opinions that the polls by large institutions like NBC and ABC are manipulated by "liberals".

    Puhleeeassse! Provide evidence for that, besides a Limbaughesque pulpit pronouncement based upon paranoia.



  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Oct 22, 2008 5:03 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI would take any poll at this stage of the game -- ESPECIALLY from places like ABC and NBC -- with a grain of salt


    I usually go to realclearpolitics.com and pollster.com for any polling data.

    There are a lot of folks on the McCain side that are saying don't pay attention to the polls. I know you don't side with this type of person and have your own reasons for voting the way you will, CuriousJock, but I have to say that there are people like this woman that don't make your point of view look good:

    http://www.observer.com/2008/politics/damn-polls-mccains-irreducibles-beg-differ
    Damn the Polls: McCain's Irreducibles Beg to Differ
    'McCain’s battle cry seemed so effective that his supporters in the crowd said they couldn’t believe any of the public-opinion surveys that showed him trailing.

    “I don’t believe these polls,” said America Blanca, a 44-year-old small business owner from Miami who wore a red dress and was visibly pumped up by the rally. “Not one of them. Because it’s the kids answering the polls on the computers. Their parents are not home and they are answering and they will not be voting. I think if he is losing, it is only by a little spread. Very little.” She held the tip of her pointer finger about two inches from the tip of her thumb.

    Asked if her business made more than $250,000 a year, the cap under which Obama has proposed cutting taxes, she said it did. Told about Obama’s proposal, she answered, “I don’t give a shit. I will never vote for a black man.”'

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Oct 22, 2008 5:05 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI would take any poll at this stage of the game -- ESPECIALLY from places like ABC and NBC -- with a grain of salt



    In 13 days we'll have the real poll and finally we will know the outcome.
  • dhinkansas

    Posts: 764

    Oct 22, 2008 5:25 PM GMT
    How ridiculous are the McCain ads saying Obama doesn't have experience. And he is one stroke away from Palin leading the country. Talk about lack of experience. The religions right must have a ton of influence over him for this pick.
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    Oct 22, 2008 5:43 PM GMT
    So, if McCain drops down dead does Palin become President? This from a woman who can see Russia from Alaska? Why would any sane person vote for this duo?
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    Oct 22, 2008 6:01 PM GMT
    redheadguyWhy would any sane person vote for this duo?


    There's a flaw in your question. You're assuming McCain/Palin supporters are sane.
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Oct 22, 2008 6:28 PM GMT
    The RNC doesn't care that she's a drag on their parties chances for a 3peat. They just spent $150K on her clothes hair and make-up since becoming the VP pick. They like her even though she's a douche. I'm just glad to know that none of that money they've spent on her is mine.

    It takes me 3.5 years to make that amount, but they were so gracious to spend it on her in 6 weeks. I'm sure all of the Republicans here are happy to spend that much on a weak candidate. Gotta make her look pretty since that's all that matters, right?
  • Barricade

    Posts: 457

    Oct 22, 2008 6:48 PM GMT
    Auryn saidThe RNC doesn't care that she's a drag on their parties chances for a 3peat. They just spent $150K on her clothes hair and make-up since becoming the VP pick. They like her even though she's a douche. I'm just glad to know that none of that money they've spent on her is mine.

    It takes me 3.5 years to make that amount, but they were so gracious to spend it on her in 6 weeks. I'm sure all of the Republicans here are happy to spend that much on a weak candidate. Gotta make her look pretty since that's all that matters, right?



    Actually, and I don't remember where I read the article, there are so many coming out. It stated that the RNC is upset over that money.Although the McCain camp insists all those clothes are going to charity. (yeah right) then it showed a bunch of pics. Even had one of her younger daughter carrying a LV bag! What?! Then in a separate article it talked about alot of McCains supporters aren't forking over the donations he needs to really put those ads on full blast in the final days of the election. It said something about a recent remark/s made by Obamas former pastor that may not get used due to lack of funding at this stage of the election. ( I don't know about any recent comments)
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Oct 22, 2008 7:28 PM GMT
    Barricade said
    Auryn saidThe RNC doesn't care that she's a drag on their parties chances for a 3peat. They just spent $150K on her clothes hair and make-up since becoming the VP pick. They like her even though she's a douche. I'm just glad to know that none of that money they've spent on her is mine.

    It takes me 3.5 years to make that amount, but they were so gracious to spend it on her in 6 weeks. I'm sure all of the Republicans here are happy to spend that much on a weak candidate. Gotta make her look pretty since that's all that matters, right?



    Actually, and I don't remember where I read the article, there are so many coming out. It stated that the RNC is upset over that money.Although the McCain camp insists all those clothes are going to charity. (yeah right) then it showed a bunch of pics. Even had one of her younger daughter carrying a LV bag! What?! Then in a separate article it talked about alot of McCains supporters aren't forking over the donations he needs to really put those ads on full blast in the final days of the election. It said something about a recent remark/s made by Obamas former pastor that may not get used due to lack of funding at this stage of the election. ( I don't know about any recent comments)


    Her clothes going to charity... anim_lol.gif It reminds me of the part in Mommie Dearest when Crawford told Christina that she could only keep one or two of her favorite toys and the rest were to go to charity.

    As for Republicans being upset with the spending... come on. You probably got that from Huffington Post. Republicans have to be happy to spend such money on her since she looked so dowdy before. It's not like Edwards spending $400 on haircuts. And you know she's not being elitist, cuz it's not her money that she's spending, since she doesn't have that much money to spend on herself and her family. Don't you love how they're spreading the wealth?
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Oct 22, 2008 7:34 PM GMT
    I just made this same post on the McCain going negative thread, but it pertains to this thread to, even though it mentions some of what's been said already:

    The more objective information I read, the more and more confident I am of Obama's victory. Given the poll numbers, no one this far down this late has ever come back. There are many signs this race is over, and that it has been for many days. But, let's look at the desperate negative attacks. McCain's campaign speeches, the robocalls, the attacks by his designates on "patriotism," etc., are not working.

    What is getting talked about today?

    One: Sarah Palin. And despite the historical tradition that VP choices don't affect the ticket, that doesn't appear the case this time -- and it's in the wrong direction for McCain. Polls show that she's dragging him down. More than the economy and, surprising to me -- more than his connection to Bush's policies, people are running from McCain because Palin is not qualified to be President.

    Two: Sarah Palin. She told third graders that her job as VP means she's in charge of the Senate. OK, I don't think this is a major deal, but the VP only "presides over" the Senate, and only votes in a tie. She is not in charge. I cut her some slack on this one, but it is stupid. Still, people are talking about it because it's another in a long line of stupid things she's said. She's reminding people of Bush, and not in a good way. Then again, is there a good way? Probably not given his historical low approval and high disapproval ratings.

    Third: Sarah Palin. The fact the RNC spent $150K putting lipstick on a...., okay I won't go down that route, but the RNC spent $150K buying a new wardrobe for her because McCain's campaign couldn't afford it. Given the economy, I'm sure a lot of average people are shaking their heads at this one. Wow. That's a big chunk of change. Well, I'm sure she'll look great in Alaska in all those new expensive clothes.

    This along with a majority of the signs shows that McCain is done. Stick a fork in him.
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    Oct 22, 2008 7:58 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI would take any poll at this stage of the game -- ESPECIALLY from places like ABC and NBC -- with a grain of salt


    Oh my goodness. Of course, there's also FOX news, whose latest poll shows Obama up by 9 points.

    http://www.foxnews.com/polls/

    Oh my goodness, Fox News has been taken over by the liberal cabal!!! Who would have ever guessed?

    Oh, and there is the Pew Survey, that shows Obama up by over 10 points.

    http://people-press.org/

    http://people-press.org/about/

    While polls are just polls, I am not certain why Curious states that we should not take them seriously at "...this stage of the game..." You mean two weeks before the election , when voters really have begun to make up their minds, the polls would be less indicative than they would be, say, six months ago.

    Why do I sense a lot of "...whistlin' past the graveyard...:" in so many of these oddly disconnected posts from our Republican RJ'ers...

    :-)
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Oct 22, 2008 8:08 PM GMT
    fastprof said


    While polls are just polls, I am not certain why Curious states that we should not take them seriously at "...this stage of the game..." You mean two weeks before the election , when voters really have begun to make up their minds, the polls would be less indicative than they would be, say, six months ago.

    Why do I sense a lot of "...whistlin' past the graveyard...:" in so many of these oddly disconnected posts from our Republican RJ'ers...

    :-)


    I think Todd would rather ignore reality. Now things could change if we had a major intervening event, but aside from that, I think the cards are being "laid out on the table" so to speak.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Oct 22, 2008 8:24 PM GMT
    fastprof said
    CuriousJockAZ saidI would take any poll at this stage of the game -- ESPECIALLY from places like ABC and NBC -- with a grain of salt


    Oh my goodness. Of course, there's also FOX news, whose latest poll shows Obama up by 9 points.

    http://www.foxnews.com/polls/

    Oh my goodness, Fox News has been taken over by the liberal cabal!!! Who would have ever guessed?

    Oh, and there is the Pew Survey, that shows Obama up by over 10 points.

    http://people-press.org/

    http://people-press.org/about/

    While polls are just polls, I am not certain why Curious states that we should not take them seriously at "...this stage of the game..." You mean two weeks before the election , when voters really have begun to make up their minds, the polls would be less indicative than they would be, say, six months ago.

    Why do I sense a lot of "...whistlin' past the graveyard...:" in so many of these oddly disconnected posts from our Republican RJ'ers...

    :-)


    Yes, I love the FOX News poll.

    Now, to be honest, there are two latest polls that show things as close: AP/GfK shows things as tied, and GWU/Battleground with Obama only up by 2. Of course, this all within their margin of error, so who knows who is really up in these two. But, all other major polls show Obama with a lead of 4 points all the way up to 14 (Pew). The Real Clear Politics average of the national polls has Obama up 6.8% over McCain. All the indicators show Obama in the lead. But, again, this is the national polls. We all know the popular vote doesn't matter much (ask Al Gore). You look at the polling of the individual states, and Obama clearly has a lead there. In fact, it could be a blowout for Obama. The Zogby poll, which is sort of skewed because they through in numbers from the previous presidential election (I don't understand it either), has until recently been slow to show Obama's momentum, but currently has Obama with a 10 point lead. Read this from John Zogby himself:

    “Three big days for Obama. Anything can happen, but time is running short for McCain. These numbers, if they hold, are blowout numbers. They fit the 1980 model with Reagan's victory over Carter -- but they are happening 12 days before Reagan blasted ahead. If Obama wins like this we can be talking not only victory but realignment: he leads by 27 points among Independents, 27 points among those who have already voted, 16 among newly registered voters, 31 among Hispanics, 93%-2% among African Americans, 16 among women, 27 among those 18-29, 5 among 30-49 year olds, 8 among 50-64s, 4 among those over 65, 25 among Moderates, and 12 among Catholics (which is better than Bill Clinton's 10-point victory among Catholics in 1996). He leads with men by 2 points, and is down among whites by only 6 points, down 2 in armed forces households, 3 among investors, and is tied among NASCAR fans.”

    Realignment? Tied among NASCAR fans???? A Reagan-like victory (look at the electoral college maps for 1980--forget Red or Blue, it was almost ALL Red, same for 1984)?

    Read it all here: http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1604.html

    And let's not forget McCain's big endorsement today. Probably the only one he's gotten today. Al Qaeda:

    "If al-Qaida carries out a big operation against American interests," the message said, "this act will be support of McCain because it will push the Americans deliberately to vote for McCain so that he takes revenge for them against al-Qaida. Al-Qaida then will succeed in exhausting America till its last year in it."
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    Oct 22, 2008 8:29 PM GMT
    Who says Saracuda's a moron? Why - she does! Just look at her scarf.
    sarahdemocrat.jpg