THE PALIN GOVENOR: Incorrect Description of what the VP Role is in the Senate

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Oct 22, 2008 1:19 PM GMT
    The VP "gets in there and makes policy changes with the other senators",
    etc. Not the correct answer to her 3rd grade questioner.....

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    Oct 22, 2008 2:36 PM GMT
    A much more surprising turn of events would have been her knowing what the VP does in the Senate.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:02 PM GMT
    I must admit the American political system is a challenge for me to understand, in terms of who does what. Anytime I watch Jeopardy and the question is "Who is next in line after the Vice-President to be President" I get all sweaty and start to rack my brains.

    Is it the Speaker of the House of Representatives, is it the Speaker of The Senate, is it the Attorney General, is it the House Leader of the President's party. So many choices, so little time. I think I will take Political Science courses when I retire, along with my Art History.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:14 PM GMT
    Sarah's got plans for the Senate. They're all going shopping on Fifth Avenue.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:20 PM GMT
    see, that's proof she is going to be a real Maverick and get in there and change Washington! icon_lol.gif
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:21 PM GMT
    Biden didn't know either. He claimed the VP shows up to break tie votes. He also didn't know which branch of government was covered in Article I of the Constitution -- kind of odd for a guy who's a constitutional lawyer and who actually has sat in the very branch of government covered in Article I since 1972.

    Biden from the VP debate: “Vice President Cheney’s been the most dangerous vice president we’ve had probably in American history,” he said. “He has the idea he doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the executive — he works in the executive branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.”

    Article 1 of the Constitution defines the role of the legislative branch, not the executive branch. You would think someone who has served 36 years in government — the same someone who is quick to remind others of his high IQ and longtime Senate Judiciary Committee chairmanship — would know better.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:25 PM GMT
    Nope. Article 1 is more than just Section 1. You would think with the availablity of a search engine and a set of 10 fingers, someone would research before making dumb remarks.


    Article. I. - The Legislative Branch Note
    Section 1 - The Legislature

    All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

    Section 2 - The House

    The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

    No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

    (Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.) (The previous sentence in parentheses was modified by the 14th Amendment, section 2.) The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five and Georgia three.

    When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.

    The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

    Section 3 - The Senate

    The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, (chosen by the Legislature thereof,) (The preceding words in parentheses superseded by 17th Amendment, section 1.) for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

    Immediately after they shall be assembled in Consequence of the first Election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three Classes. The Seats of the Senators of the first Class shall be vacated at the Expiration of the second Year, of the second Class at the Expiration of the fourth Year, and of the third Class at the Expiration of the sixth Year, so that one third may be chosen every second Year; (and if Vacancies happen by Resignation, or otherwise, during the Recess of the Legislature of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary Appointments until the next Meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such Vacancies.) (The preceding words in parentheses were superseded by the 17th Amendment, section 2.)

    No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.

    The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

    The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States.

    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

    Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

    Section 4 - Elections, Meetings

    The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Place of Chusing Senators.

    The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting shall (be on the first Monday in December,) (The preceding words in parentheses were superseded by the 20th Amendment, section 2.) unless they shall by Law appoint a different Day.

    Section 5 - Membership, Rules, Journals, Adjournment

    Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.

    Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member.

    Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their Judgment require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the Desire of one fifth of those Present, be entered on the Journal.

    Neither House, during the Session of Congress, shall, without the Consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other Place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting.

    Section 6 - Compensation

    (The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States.) (The preceding words in parentheses were modified by the 27th Amendment.) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

    No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.

    Section 7 - Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto

    All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

    Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall lik
  • BizzQuik

    Posts: 116

    Oct 22, 2008 3:27 PM GMT
    Umm the vice president does break tied votes in the Senate. They are the President of the Senate. So Joe Biden is correct about the breaking the tie thing.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:29 PM GMT
    FALCONER saidBiden didn't know either. He claimed the VP shows up to break tie votes. He also didn't know which branch of government was covered in Article I of the Constitution -- kind of odd for a guy who's a constitutional lawyer and who actually has sat in the very branch of government covered in Article I since 1972.

    Biden from the VP debate: “Vice President Cheney’s been the most dangerous vice president we’ve had probably in American history,” he said. “He has the idea he doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the executive — he works in the executive branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.”

    Article 1 of the Constitution defines the role of the legislative branch, not the executive branch. You would think someone who has served 36 years in government — the same someone who is quick to remind others of his high IQ and longtime Senate Judiciary Committee chairmanship — would know better.


    No, it is you who doesn't know the US Constitution. Article I does indeed establish the Legislative Branch. But in doing so, it prescribes the role of the Vice-President within the Senate, which was Biden's point. I quote from Article I:

    "The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided."

    You'll also note the tie-breaking role of the VP, which you likewise said Biden incorrectly stated. This is why a long-time US Senator will make a better VP than an amateur from Alaska.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:34 PM GMT
    McGay saidSarah's got plans for the Senate. They're all going shopping on Fifth Avenue.


    Ever since he picked Palin it has been like Christmas every day.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Oct 22, 2008 3:37 PM GMT
    I didn't really take Governor Palin's answer as she literally makes policy changes, but rather that she would want to get involved with working with senators to guide or help in terms of forming policy with senators. So, it would be a stretch to say that her answer was necessarily incorrect.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:38 PM GMT
    Your take on it is what is a stretch. You keep insisting the shit you're eating is chocolate mousse, so, bon apetit.
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    Oct 22, 2008 3:41 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI didn't really take Governor Palin's answer as she literally makes policy changes, but rather that she would want to get involved with working with senators to guide or help in terms of forming policy with senators. So, it would be a stretch to say that her answer was necessarily incorrect.
    I liked my answer better. Besides, my answer trumps yours because I used the word Maverick icon_lol.gif
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    Oct 22, 2008 4:23 PM GMT
    McGay saidSarah's got plans for the Senate. They're all going shopping on Fifth Avenue.


    Do you mean the US could get its' very own Imelda Marcos? Cool! icon_twisted.gif
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    Oct 22, 2008 4:29 PM GMT
    FALCONER saidBiden didn't know either. He claimed the VP shows up to break tie votes. He also didn't know which branch of government was covered in Article I of the Constitution -- kind of odd for a guy who's a constitutional lawyer and who actually has sat in the very branch of government covered in Article I since 1972.

    Biden from the VP debate: “Vice President Cheney’s been the most dangerous vice president we’ve had probably in American history,” he said. “He has the idea he doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the executive — he works in the executive branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.”

    Article 1 of the Constitution defines the role of the legislative branch, not the executive branch. You would think someone who has served 36 years in government — the same someone who is quick to remind others of his high IQ and longtime Senate Judiciary Committee chairmanship — would know better.


    Uh, buddy, maybe you should read on to Section 3 Clause 4 of Article 1. Maybe the Cliff's Notes version you read doesn't go that far.icon_lol.gif I mean, seriously. I'm about as smart as your average box of hair and I knew that.


    Clause 4: Vice President as President of Senate; Voting Power

    The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.


    Section Three provides that the Vice President is to serve as President of the Senate, although in practice, the Vice President usually presides over the Senate only when a tie in the voting is anticipated. Neither the Vice President nor the full-time President pro tempore of the Senate preside over the body's routine sessions; instead, the President pro tempore typically deputizes a junior member of the assembly to fill the role. As a non-member of the assembly, the Vice President has no vote unless the Senate is equally divided, in which case the Vice President has what is called a casting vote. This is as contrasted with the Speaker of the House, who has always been chosen from among the Members of the House of Representatives,[38] and as a Member of the assembly can vote to both make or break a tie. This provision is typically seen as one of the "checks and balances" built into the U.S. Constitution, whereby the 3 branches of the federal government (Congress, President, and the courts) are given the ability to influence the others. In this case, the Vice President's ability to preside over the deliberations of the Senate and (more importantly) break tie votes, presumably in favor of the presidential administration's preferences, allows the Executive Branch to influence the behavior of the Senate (and, consequently, Congress).


    Ooops. Sorry McGay. I just saw you beat me to it.icon_lol.gif
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    Oct 22, 2008 4:33 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    McGay saidSarah's got plans for the Senate. They're all going shopping on Fifth Avenue.


    Ever since he picked Palin it has been like Christmas every day.


    But is it a Maverick Christmas?

    It's nice to know that she's able to spend my entire earnings for a year in just one day on clothes. Must be nice.
  • joggerva

    Posts: 731

    Oct 22, 2008 4:48 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidBesides, my answer trumps yours because I used the word Maverick icon_lol.gif


    Well played sir. I came very close to spitting tea on my keyboard when I read that one. icon_lol.gif
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    Oct 22, 2008 6:06 PM GMT
    re: the clothes -
    well, it's the distraction of the day. I admit, if I were named out of the blue to go on the campaign trail, I'd want to augment my wardrobe! Though I don't doubt they went overboard.

    re: the job of the VP. The sitting VP is confused at best about who he works for and in which department ... no wonder the candidates are in a muddle!
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    Oct 22, 2008 6:10 PM GMT
    But now I've watched the video clip. More off-base is the statement that the VP is "in charge of the United States senate."

    That premise could lead to some rocky beginnings on Capitol Hill.