Do you think they're ever gonna get around to legalizing same sex marriage in Florida?

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    May 03, 2013 4:05 AM GMT
    Florida has become relatively more liberal in the past four years. There are some LGBT protections for discrimination and full join adoption and more and more jurisdictions are creating domestic partnership laws. However Amendment 2 bans the recognition of any same sex relationships on a state level. However many Floridian residents are growing tired of the amount of new amendments introduced to the Florida constitution. I think we are like on amendment 11.

    There's a growing movement of Floridians who are growing feed up with how often our legislators are trying to reconstruct our state constitution into something that serves the ideology of only one party. Anything that will be seen as a kickback of this would probably be warmly welcomed. If a repeal of Amendment 2 were promoted and advertised as such I think most Floridians would support it. A majority of residents support same sex marriage, it's a little over half. More support some sort of civil union. And there seems to be a rapidly growing movement of people who are not only becoming more tolerant but accepting of it.

    What do you guys think? I'm interested in opinions especially from people who have actually lived here for a while.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    May 03, 2013 4:35 AM GMT
    Yes, but not until the United States Supreme Court declares it legal for the entire United States. That could happen next month.
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    May 03, 2013 4:37 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidYes, but not until the United States Supreme Court declares it legal for the entire United States. That could happen next month.


    It could be next month.

    They might make it federally recognized but they might not strike down section 2. So we still need to fight on the state level.
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    May 03, 2013 4:58 AM GMT
    Overturning the 30 year old law and allowing adoption by gay people was forced by the courts. I suspect marriage will require similar.

    We've metropolitan pockets of blue here but a lot of red in between.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/elections/fl-gx-same-sex-marriage-poll-eps-20130423,0,2017795.graphic

    75602827.jpg
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    May 03, 2013 5:04 AM GMT
    theantijock saidOverturning the 30 year old law and allowing adoption by gay people was forced by the courts. I suspect marriage will require similar.

    We've metropolitan pockets of blue here but a lot of red in between.


    I won't doubt there's a lot of red but I'm not inclined to believe all of that red is against us. I think as more people are coming out and more kinds of people as well mentalities are changing.
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    May 03, 2013 5:23 AM GMT
    MisfitToy said
    theantijock saidOverturning the 30 year old law and allowing adoption by gay people was forced by the courts. I suspect marriage will require similar.

    We've metropolitan pockets of blue here but a lot of red in between.


    I won't doubt there's a lot of red but I'm not inclined to believe all of that red is against us. I think as more people are coming out and more kinds of people as well mentalities are changing.


    You'd have to look at the numbers. I don't know if they agree with your statement. Shown above is that 58% of democrats approve, so really even just a bare majority of them, while 66% of republicans would deny your human rights.

    Now superimpose onto that how many democrats there are v how many republican there are, account for the independents and you'll have some sort of guide of how things might stand currently.

    You can do similar superimposing with age groups. I would image there are more 30 to 65plus year olds than there are 18-29 year olds and so that seems to put a big majority against by those numbers too.

    Sure things sometimes change. But Florida has been denying my humanity since the 70s. We've got a foothold in south Florida, the Keys, Tampa Bay, Orlando and maybe a little bit in Jax. As to the rest of this state, this is the south.
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    May 03, 2013 5:30 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    MisfitToy said
    theantijock saidOverturning the 30 year old law and allowing adoption by gay people was forced by the courts. I suspect marriage will require similar.

    We've metropolitan pockets of blue here but a lot of red in between.


    I won't doubt there's a lot of red but I'm not inclined to believe all of that red is against us. I think as more people are coming out and more kinds of people as well mentalities are changing.


    You'd have to look at the numbers. I don't know if they agree with your statement. Shown above is that 58% of democrats approve, so really even just a bare majority of them, while 66% of republicans would deny your human rights.

    Now superimpose onto that how many democrats there are v how many republican there are, account for the independents and you'll have some sort of guide of how things might stand currently.

    You can do similar superimposing with age groups. I would image there are more 30 to 65plus year olds than there are 18-29 year olds and so that seems to put a big majority against by those numbers too.

    Sure things sometimes change. But Florida has been denying my humanity since the 70s. We've got a foothold in south Florida, the Keys, Tampa Bay, Orlando and maybe a little bit in Jax. As to the rest of this state, this is the south.


    From 18 to 44 we've got an age group majority. With the next age group after that I think we could work on improving those numbers.

    We also need to consider how many of these Republicans fall into the she groups that wouldn't vote for us anyway. Florida is a purple state. They've voted for Obama both times. If we could get it on the ballot again by 2016 I think we could at least get civil unions and work from there.
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    May 03, 2013 5:53 AM GMT
    MisfitToy saidFrom 18 to 44 we've got an age group majority. With the next age group after that I think we could work on improving those numbers.

    We also need to consider how many of these Republicans fall into the she groups that wouldn't vote for us anyway. Florida is a purple state. They've voted for Obama both times. If we could get it on the ballot again by 2016 I think we could at least get civil unions and work from there.


    [url]http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&idim=state:12000&dl=en&hl=en&q=florida%20population#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=population&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=state:12000&ifdim=country&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false[/url] shows florida currently with 19.3 million
    by age:
    20-24 1.3 mil
    25-29 1.2
    30-34 1.1
    35-39 1.1
    40-44 1.3
    45-49 1.4
    50-54 1.4
    55-59 1.2
    60-64 1.2
    65-69 1
    70-74 0.8
    75-79 0.6
    80-84 0.5
    85plus 0.5

    superimposing above numbers, with that you've got, by age groups:

    66% of 2.5 million + 47% of 3.5 + 42% of 5.2 + 30% of 3.4 million = about 6.5 million for human rights for gay people or about 33% of the population on your side plus some of the undecided people.

    EDIT: forgot those not old enough to vote, say about another 4 million. so of the 19.3 minus 4 mil you've got 42% plus some of the undecideds
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    May 03, 2013 6:44 AM GMT
    Well, they have to wait for all the old farts to die.

    But all the rich old farts in NY and NJ who should die move to FL. So it's going to take a little longer. Sorry. icon_cry.gif
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    May 03, 2013 6:47 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    MisfitToy saidFrom 18 to 44 we've got an age group majority. With the next age group after that I think we could work on improving those numbers.

    We also need to consider how many of these Republicans fall into the she groups that wouldn't vote for us anyway. Florida is a purple state. They've voted for Obama both times. If we could get it on the ballot again by 2016 I think we could at least get civil unions and work from there.


    [url]http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&idim=state:12000&dl=en&hl=en&q=florida%20population#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=population&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=state:12000&ifdim=country&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false[/url] shows florida currently with 19.3 million
    by age:
    20-24 1.3 mil
    25-29 1.2
    30-34 1.1
    35-39 1.1
    40-44 1.3
    45-49 1.4
    50-54 1.4
    55-59 1.2
    60-64 1.2
    65-69 1
    70-74 0.8
    75-79 0.6
    80-84 0.5
    85plus 0.5

    superimposing above numbers, with that you've got, by age groups:

    66% of 2.5 million + 47% of 3.5 + 42% of 5.2 + 30% of 3.4 million = about 6.5 million for human rights for gay people or about 33% of the population on your side plus some of the undecided people.

    EDIT: forgot those not old enough to vote, say about another 4 million. so of the 19.3 minus 4 mil you've got 42% plus some of the undecideds


    42% percent isn't bad. We might see a change in the next four years. I mean just two years ago a majority was opposed.
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    May 03, 2013 2:46 PM GMT
    mindgarden saidWell, they have to wait for all the old farts to die.

    But all the rich old farts in NY and NJ who should die move to FL. So it's going to take a little longer. Sorry. icon_cry.gif


    Attrition will be contributing though as you note we do attract elder immigration, but even still, I'm not convinced the 18-29 year olds get bragging rights over their 66%. If they're so much more accepting than our generations then why aren't they up to 90%? I think that's more telling of how the world thinks of us.

    Seems they have holdbacks too. I'd further argue there's a lot more cause for elders to miss-think this. So youth's smaller disapproval numbers may speak louder. Someone living this way for all their life who can't change, well, dumb but it happens. Someone born into it but still doesn't get it, that's just stupid.

    MisfitToy said42% percent isn't bad. We might see a change in the next four years. I mean just two years ago a majority was opposed.


    I'm not sure what you mean by "two years ago a majority was opposed" as it looks like that is still the case. As to your projection about the next four years, I believe that some polls agree with your assessment or feeling that the trend could sway in our favor.

    But here's the kicker to that:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Florida
    Under current Florida law, same-sex marriages, civil unions, and domestic partnerships are not recognized.[1] Same-sex marriage and civil unions were constitutionally banned on November 6, 2008 with 62% of the vote.[2][3] In Florida, at least 60% of the population must approve a ballot measure for it to become the law

    Here's the differing, latest 2012 polls per the above citation:

    Public Policy Polling: 42% of Florida voters supported the legalization of same-sex marriage, while 45% opposed it and 13% were not sure

    Washington Post: 54% said that same sex marriage should be legal, while 33% were opposed. 13% had no opinion

    Quinnipiac: 45% of Florida residents opposed it, while 43% were in favor of it.

    So by two of those, we're still a long way from 60%.

    Regardless, I think people voting on my human rights is fucking outrageous. Who in hell do they think they are to have to the right to vote on whether or not we are considered fully 100% human beings. On this matter, as far as I'm concerned, the electorate can go fuck itself. I wouldn't even consider swayed public opinion to be contrite. Florida being forced might provide some sense of justice for its abuses of our being. They owe us at least that.
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    May 03, 2013 2:55 PM GMT
    They'll get around to it when the country realizes that marriage shouldn't have the option of being legal or illegal, that it's just a contract signed by two conscious adults and that's all that it can ever and will ever be.

  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    May 03, 2013 9:03 PM GMT
    It will take the FEDs. The Republican party has gerrymandered the state to the point that they control 66% or more of the state legislature. The most likely next Governor is Don Gaetz who I know personally and he has a far right-wing agenda. I asked him if maybe it was time to consider making pot available to cancer patients, that the war on drugs has proven to be a disaster, and his response was he had no interest in promoting the use of illegal drugs. How's that for a thoughtful answer? It would be the same on gay issues. And he's already gotten his son Matt in line to succeed him. And he, too, toes the right wing line.
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    May 03, 2013 9:05 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidIt will take the FEDs. The Republican party has gerrymandered the state to the point that they control 66% or more of the state legislature. The most likely next Governor is Don Gaetz who I know personally and he has a far right-wing agenda. I asked him if maybe it was time to consider making pot available to cancer patients, that the war on drugs has proven to be a disaster, and his response was he had no interest in promoting the use of illegal drugs. How's that for a thoughtful answer? It would be the same on gay issues. And he's already gotten his son Matt in line to succeed him. And he, too, toes the right wing line.


    I think our next governor is a Democrat and hopefully we vote more Democrats into office.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    May 03, 2013 9:16 PM GMT
    MisfitToy said
    Destinharbor saidIt will take the FEDs. The Republican party has gerrymandered the state to the point that they control 66% or more of the state legislature. The most likely next Governor is Don Gaetz who I know personally and he has a far right-wing agenda. I asked him if maybe it was time to consider making pot available to cancer patients, that the war on drugs has proven to be a disaster, and his response was he had no interest in promoting the use of illegal drugs. How's that for a thoughtful answer? It would be the same on gay issues. And he's already gotten his son Matt in line to succeed him. And he, too, toes the right wing line.


    I think our next governor is a Democrat and hopefully we vote more Democrats into office.

    Well, the current bozo Rick Scott is so bad that maybe even some Republicans will opt for better but I don't really expect that to happen. The guy was a known crook when he was elected and the Republicans wanted him anyway. (For those who don't follow, he was Chairman of Columbia/HCA which defrauded the American tax payers to the tune of 34 Billion$$. When Scott was put on the stand to testify, he pleaded the Fifth something like 75 times.)
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    May 04, 2013 12:01 AM GMT
    theantijock saidOverturning the 30 year old law and allowing adoption by gay people was forced by the courts. I suspect marriage will require similar.

    We've metropolitan pockets of blue here but a lot of red in between.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/elections/fl-gx-same-sex-marriage-poll-eps-20130423,0,2017795.graphic

    75602827.jpg



    Looks like the blacks don't like the gays.
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    May 04, 2013 12:03 AM GMT
    Destinharbor said
    MisfitToy said
    Destinharbor saidIt will take the FEDs. The Republican party has gerrymandered the state to the point that they control 66% or more of the state legislature. The most likely next Governor is Don Gaetz who I know personally and he has a far right-wing agenda. I asked him if maybe it was time to consider making pot available to cancer patients, that the war on drugs has proven to be a disaster, and his response was he had no interest in promoting the use of illegal drugs. How's that for a thoughtful answer? It would be the same on gay issues. And he's already gotten his son Matt in line to succeed him. And he, too, toes the right wing line.


    I think our next governor is a Democrat and hopefully we vote more Democrats into office.

    Well, the current bozo Rick Scott is so bad that maybe even some Republicans will opt for better but I don't really expect that to happen. The guy was a known crook when he was elected and the Republicans wanted him anyway. (For those who don't follow, he was Chairman of Columbia/HCA which defrauded the American tax payers to the tune of 34 Billion$$. When Scott was put on the stand to testify, he pleaded the Fifth something like 75 times.)


    I honestly don't see him getting a second term. After what happened in the polls in November people want him gone.
  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    May 04, 2013 12:27 AM GMT
    These states will legalize marriage equality before Florida:

    The existing 10+

    New Jersey
    Delaware
    Pennsylvania
    Virginia
    Michigan
    Wisconsin
    Minnesota
    Illinois
    Oregon
    California
    Colorado
    Hawaii

    Possibly Ohio and New Mexico, too.

    In other words, the SCOTUS will probably make banning marriage equality unconstitutional before Florida passes marriage equality legislation.
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    May 04, 2013 12:28 AM GMT
    Destinharbor said
    MisfitToy said
    Destinharbor saidIt will take the FEDs. The Republican party has gerrymandered the state to the point that they control 66% or more of the state legislature. The most likely next Governor is Don Gaetz who I know personally and he has a far right-wing agenda. I asked him if maybe it was time to consider making pot available to cancer patients, that the war on drugs has proven to be a disaster, and his response was he had no interest in promoting the use of illegal drugs. How's that for a thoughtful answer? It would be the same on gay issues. And he's already gotten his son Matt in line to succeed him. And he, too, toes the right wing line.


    I think our next governor is a Democrat and hopefully we vote more Democrats into office.

    Well, the current bozo Rick Scott is so bad that maybe even some Republicans will opt for better but I don't really expect that to happen. The guy was a known crook when he was elected and the Republicans wanted him anyway. (For those who don't follow, he was Chairman of Columbia/HCA which defrauded the American tax payers to the tune of 34 Billion$$. When Scott was put on the stand to testify, he pleaded the Fifth something like 75 times.)


    Exactly.

    What we need is a volunteer to file a lawsuit. MisfitToy, find someone in Florida you want to marry, submit your application, and when it is rejected, sue the State of Florida on the grounds that Amendment 2 is unconstitutional.

    Interested? Maybe there's a Florida attorney on this site who will volunteer to take your case pro bono.
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    May 04, 2013 12:39 AM GMT
    shortbutsweet said
    Destinharbor said
    MisfitToy said
    Destinharbor saidIt will take the FEDs. The Republican party has gerrymandered the state to the point that they control 66% or more of the state legislature. The most likely next Governor is Don Gaetz who I know personally and he has a far right-wing agenda. I asked him if maybe it was time to consider making pot available to cancer patients, that the war on drugs has proven to be a disaster, and his response was he had no interest in promoting the use of illegal drugs. How's that for a thoughtful answer? It would be the same on gay issues. And he's already gotten his son Matt in line to succeed him. And he, too, toes the right wing line.


    I think our next governor is a Democrat and hopefully we vote more Democrats into office.

    Well, the current bozo Rick Scott is so bad that maybe even some Republicans will opt for better but I don't really expect that to happen. The guy was a known crook when he was elected and the Republicans wanted him anyway. (For those who don't follow, he was Chairman of Columbia/HCA which defrauded the American tax payers to the tune of 34 Billion$$. When Scott was put on the stand to testify, he pleaded the Fifth something like 75 times.)


    Exactly.

    What we need is a volunteer to file a lawsuit. MisfitToy, find someone in Florida you want to marry, submit your application, and when it is rejected, sue the State of Florida on the grounds that Amendment 2 is unconstitutional.

    Interested? Maybe there's a Florida attorney on this site who will volunteer to take your case pro bono.


    That is an interesting idea. Lol don't have anyone I want to marry but someone else can try it.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    May 04, 2013 12:50 AM GMT
    I'm from Canada. They threw all kinds of crazy numbers at us too, to convince us that gay marriage would cause the bedrock under us to buckle and the world as we know it to crumble.

    Most Canadians are now so proud that our country was one of the first to recognize the rights of LGBT people that no politician would ever suggest those rights away.

    It's a wave that is sweeping the planet. One country at a time. Your's is next.
  • Joeyphx444

    Posts: 2382

    May 04, 2013 12:57 AM GMT
    BroTie saidThey'll get around to it when the country realizes that marriage shouldn't have the option of being legal or illegal, that it's just a contract signed by two conscious adults and that's all that it can ever and will ever be.



    Yes this!!!
    And realize that it really isn't political nor religious

    I don't even understand the whole legally binding thing. There should be ways around it and things to be done that make marriage a simple status not a legal term

    2 ways to look at it here

    1) Supreme court will legalize gay marriage across the country. Now this could just end this whole damn thing but you know gay people will pick another battle or something. Or it could be bad and many states may fight it as much as possible and there could be some severe backlash

    2) They strike it down nationwide and we keep on and on with each state deciding for themselves, which may or may not be the best. I always thought, it terms of law, that states should regulate most things by themselves. With the country so divided and and every state having it's own battle in something, it's not really logical or fair to have an across the board vote on something. That's just my opinion icon_razz.gif For example, the borer states need different laws for immigration than say like Iowa or Alaska. An across the board law or system would be kinda silly in that case.
  • HorrorHound

    Posts: 1435

    May 04, 2013 1:08 AM GMT
    It'll be one of THE last states.....outside Mississippi & Alabama.
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    May 04, 2013 1:08 AM GMT
    HorrorHound saidIt'll be one of THE last states.....outside Mississippi & Alabama.


    And that's surprising considering all the gays we have down here.
  • turtleneckjoc...

    Posts: 4685

    May 04, 2013 1:14 AM GMT
    MisfitToy said
    Destinharbor said
    MisfitToy said
    Destinharbor saidIt will take the FEDs. The Republican party has gerrymandered the state to the point that they control 66% or more of the state legislature. The most likely next Governor is Don Gaetz who I know personally and he has a far right-wing agenda. I asked him if maybe it was time to consider making pot available to cancer patients, that the war on drugs has proven to be a disaster, and his response was he had no interest in promoting the use of illegal drugs. How's that for a thoughtful answer? It would be the same on gay issues. And he's already gotten his son Matt in line to succeed him. And he, too, toes the right wing line.


    I think our next governor is a Democrat and hopefully we vote more Democrats into office.

    Well, the current bozo Rick Scott is so bad that maybe even some Republicans will opt for better but I don't really expect that to happen. The guy was a known crook when he was elected and the Republicans wanted him anyway. (For those who don't follow, he was Chairman of Columbia/HCA which defrauded the American tax payers to the tune of 34 Billion$$. When Scott was put on the stand to testify, he pleaded the Fifth something like 75 times.)


    I honestly don't see him getting a second term. After what happened in the polls in November people want him gone.


    Whaaaa......??? Who the heck in Don Gaetz? What is a Don Gaetz? I follow politics in my state closer than some and this name is unknown to me. He has not come up in any polling as far as potential primary rivals to resident asshat Rick Scott.

    Not heard anything lately, but back in January there was some talk about the dear darling of the Republican Party, Allen West, challenging Scott in the primary next year---and polling had West ahead of Scott, but within the margin of error.

    Unless someone changes their mind soon, Scott will have a challenger in the Republican primary and could become "term limited" right then. How wonderful is that?

    Personally, I want Charlie Crist to get in the race NOW and have a clear shot all the way to November 2014. Other Democrats have toyed with the idea of running, however, they do not have the name recognition statewide. Case in point--Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer (a fave of mine) had thought about it and while everyone in Central Florida knows him, no one in south Florida does.....

    What we need to do is this:

    1. We have to have the "One Man/One Woman" amendment that thoughtless Floridians voted for a few election cycles back repealed and struck from our state Constitution. That possibly could be taken care of with a repeal of DOMA from the Supreme Court, but maybe not......Regardless, the amendment must go (along with "Stand Your Ground" but that is a different topic for a different forum).

    2. To bring about effective change, EVERY elected Republican in the state House and Senate MUST go! MUST GO! Now, that is a real tall order, but it has to be our goal here. Democrats made some strong inroads in 2012 to unplug the Republican supermajority we have in the House and Senate, but we must do more---and give Governor Crist the firepower he needs to bring about realistic and effective change here, and to eradicate the conservative agendas the Jeb Bush and Rick Scott administrations threw at us. Like I said, it's a huge mountain to climb, but if we can pin the failures of Rick Scott to every single Republican candidate, we can get our majority back.

    3. A Democrat as Governor, a Democratic majority in the House and Senate is a good start, but every Republican Cabinet member must also be shown the door. Every Republican Cabinet office holder is a puppet of Rick Scott and a Tea Party favorite.

    4. These efforts have to go down to the local levels too. All politics is local and County Commissioners, Constitutional Officers (Tax Collector, Property Appraiser, Sheriff, etc) and School Board members need to be progressives as well. Even in non-partisan races....well, we know who you are and what you believe in.....

    Remember this....to bring about realistic and effective change in Florida, a Democrat really needs to carry 10 counties out of the 67 here. It should not be hard to take Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, Orange, Hillsborough, Alachua, Leon, Pinellas, Osceola and St. Lucie.

    For the Floridians posting above me, let's get to work and take back our state. Let's get rid of these toxic, conservative morons once and for all.