German euro founder calls for 'catastrophic' currency to be broken up

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    May 06, 2013 10:45 AM GMT
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10039329/German-euro-founder-calls-for-catastrophic-currency-to-be-broken-up.html
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    May 06, 2013 6:10 PM GMT
    Since when do you agree with someone left of the Social Democrats?
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    May 06, 2013 6:14 PM GMT
    bhp91126 saidSince when do you agree with someone left of the Social Democrats?


    I agree with ideas that make sense:

    "The economic situation is worsening from month to month, and unemployment has reached a level that puts democratic structures ever more in doubt," he said.

    "The Germans have not yet realised that southern Europe, including France, will be forced by their current misery to fight back against German hegemony sooner or later," he said, blaming much of the crisis on Germany's wage squeeze to gain export share.
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    May 06, 2013 7:16 PM GMT
    Germany has been doing very nicely under the Euro. Germany is an export-dependent economy and its biggest customers are other Euro-zone members. If it reverted to the DM, this would most likely become a very strong reserve currency and its biggest customers would not be able to afford to buy German goods.
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    May 06, 2013 10:38 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 saidGermany has been doing very nicely under the Euro. Germany is an export-dependent economy and its biggest customers are other Euro-zone members. If it reverted to the DM, this would most likely become a very strong reserve currency and its biggest customers would not be able to afford to buy German goods.


    Have you been keeping up with the news? As a direct result of the EU, there have been transfers in wealth from Germany to other previously thought of as poorer members of the EU - so much so that Germans are now one of the poorest in the EU.

    Think of this for a moment, they're poorer than the Cypriots they are being asked to bail out time and time again, and poorer than the Italians who they eventually may have to bail out.

    http://www.dw.de/are-germans-poorer-than-italians-spaniards/a-16695404
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    May 06, 2013 11:58 PM GMT
    yourname2000 said
    riddler78 saidI agree with ideas that make sense:

    Well, I look forward to seeing any evidence of that, lol. About time you turned over a new leaf.


    He has been posting a lot of articles on Guaranteed Annual Income of late. That is a concept promoted rather heavily by the left.
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    May 07, 2013 12:25 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Ex_Mil8 saidGermany has been doing very nicely under the Euro. Germany is an export-dependent economy and its biggest customers are other Euro-zone members. If it reverted to the DM, this would most likely become a very strong reserve currency and its biggest customers would not be able to afford to buy German goods.


    Have you been keeping up with the news? As a direct result of the EU, there have been transfers in wealth from Germany to other previously thought of as poorer members of the EU - so much so that Germans are now one of the poorest in the EU.

    Think of this for a moment, they're poorer than the Cypriots they are being asked to bail out time and time again, and poorer than the Italians who they eventually may have to bail out.

    http://www.dw.de/are-germans-poorer-than-italians-spaniards/a-16695404

    Ugh, do you actually read what you link to on here? Nowhere does it say anything about transfer of wealth. And the whole article is about that the study calling the Germans poorer than their southern brethren is fraught with errors.
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    May 07, 2013 1:20 AM GMT
    bhp91126 said
    riddler78 said
    Ex_Mil8 saidGermany has been doing very nicely under the Euro. Germany is an export-dependent economy and its biggest customers are other Euro-zone members. If it reverted to the DM, this would most likely become a very strong reserve currency and its biggest customers would not be able to afford to buy German goods.


    Have you been keeping up with the news? As a direct result of the EU, there have been transfers in wealth from Germany to other previously thought of as poorer members of the EU - so much so that Germans are now one of the poorest in the EU.

    Think of this for a moment, they're poorer than the Cypriots they are being asked to bail out time and time again, and poorer than the Italians who they eventually may have to bail out.

    http://www.dw.de/are-germans-poorer-than-italians-spaniards/a-16695404

    Ugh, do you actually read what you link to on here? Nowhere does it say anything about transfer of wealth. And the whole article is about that the study calling the Germans poorer than their southern brethren is fraught with errors.


    There is far more than this article. I pointed to the study itself which does suggest a transfer of wealth - as the germans have become poorer while others have seen their wealth climb. If you even bothered to read the article however you'd see rationalizations like the fact that germans have a lower percentage of home ownership or that free education and public pensions were not taken into account - have you even bothered to pay attention to the changes that have been happening to entitlements? Let's look at another of the many articles written about the study:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/turn-germans-poorest-cypriots-second-114946126.html

    Median household wealth—half the households had more, half less—of €266,900 was over five times Germany’s puny median of €51,400. Average household wealth reached a phenomenal €670,900 (that’s $872,000!), 3.4 times Germany’s €195,200, and just shy of Luxembourg’s €710,100.

    Rarefied levels of wealth achievable only by small countries with huge and murky banking centers, or lots of oil. Few countries in the world are in that elite club.

    And Germans (DE), based on median household wealth, were the poorest in the Eurozone.

    It wasn’t that Cypriot households earned a lot of money—they earned the same as German households! They just knew how to hang on to it. At least until their bubble blew up.

    What’s particularly galling for our hardworking Teutonic heroes is that since Reunification their real incomes have declined while that of their southern neighbors has soared, and their wealth was eaten up by taxes, high housing costs, and other expenses.

    The comparisons are sobering. German household wealth amounted to less than half the Eurozone median of €109,000 and was even below that of former east-bloc countries, the poorest of which was Slovakia at €61,200. West Germans were better off, barely, at €68,000. East Germans were steeped in poverty at €21,000. Their comrades in Slovakia were three times richer. Even the maligned lazy corrupt Greeks were worth €101,900.


    Why do suppose real estate prices rose so dramatically in places like Spain and Cyprus? It was on the backs of the stability of the Euro which is based in large part on the economic strength of Germany. Germany is now weaker for it - how else to describe this relationship but a transfer of wealth?

    Have a look at another article:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20130321-710167.html

    In the very least, these articles in total or even individually including the one from DW, suggest how ridiculous the following statement is: "Germany has been doing very nicely under the Euro. Germany is an export-dependent economy and its biggest customers are other Euro-zone members. If it reverted to the DM, this would most likely become a very strong reserve currency and its biggest customers would not be able to afford to buy German goods."
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    May 07, 2013 1:28 AM GMT
    Yes Germany is so much weaker now and the earth is flat.
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    May 07, 2013 1:36 AM GMT
    bhp91126 saidYes Germany is so much weaker now and the earth is flat.


    It's unfortunate you see evidence and facts as superfluous. I hope it works out for you.
  • conservativej...

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    May 08, 2013 7:30 PM GMT
    Well ... the Euro only exists in theory to me anyway. Yes, it has a "paper" value and coinage, but it is a printed piece of crap like the US Dollar. My view on the article is that someone is covering ass early for what is inevitable. People always complain after they piss in their own cereal.

    There are few fundamentally strong nations in Europe. Southern Europe is a liberal disaster with not only piss flowing from the cereal bowl but excrement as well. Don't worry however, as new alliances are forming in cover from the usual suspects who strike the Socialist anvil. The French will slip off the rail into the fog that has formed over Southern Europe; the Brits will begin to clean up their mess that America will never view as a disaster within its own borders; West will marry East and all that can produce will produce.
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    May 09, 2013 2:29 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    bhp91126 saidYes Germany is so much weaker now and the earth is flat.


    It's unfortunate you see evidence and facts as superfluous. I hope it works out for you.

    I hope you have someone IRL to take you seriously, cause nobody does that on here, knowing that you twist facts and ignore evidence to suit your worldview.
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    May 09, 2013 1:09 PM GMT
    bhp91126 said
    riddler78 said
    bhp91126 saidYes Germany is so much weaker now and the earth is flat.


    It's unfortunate you see evidence and facts as superfluous. I hope it works out for you.

    I hope you have someone IRL to take you seriously, cause nobody does that on here, knowing that you twist facts and ignore evidence to suit your worldview.


    If that's what you want to believe. icon_rolleyes.gif You started out this thread responding and asking why I agreed with a social democrat. Let's consider the possibility that you're right with your comments on this thread. You seem to think that Germany is better off with the Euro - many economists are now beginning to think otherwise. I've pointed out why. You claim that "nobody does that on here, knowing that you twist facts and ignore evidence to suit your worldview." Except for the fact you seem to be so uncertain with your own world view that you feel the need to make this proclamation on behalf of others.

    You're a common partisan with few ideas of your own and an obvious inability to distinguish between fact and fiction without someone telling you. So yeah when it comes to looking for real life insights, I think I'd be far better off talking to my boyfriend's dog. icon_wink.gif
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    May 09, 2013 4:45 PM GMT
    Meanwhile:

    European markets rally as German industry bounces back
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/may/08/eurozone-crisis-market-rally-imf-uk