Bill to repeal laws that criminalize HIV exposure introduced in U.S. House

  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    May 09, 2013 3:06 AM GMT
    Bill to repeal laws that criminalize HIV exposure introduced in U.S. House

    http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2013/05/bill-to-repeal-laws-that-criminalize-hiv-exposure-introduced-in-u-s-house/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 09, 2013 1:52 PM GMT
    Not sure how I feel about this.

    If a person knowingly spreads HIV to another person without disclosing status I feel there should be some recourse other than just a lawsuit in civil court.
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    May 09, 2013 2:14 PM GMT
    ATC84 saidNot sure how I feel about this.

    If a person knowingly spreads HIV to another person without disclosing status I feel there should be some recourse other than just a lawsuit in civil court.

    If you knowingly infect someone, how can this not be a criminal act?
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    May 09, 2013 2:31 PM GMT
    smartmoney said
    If you knowingly infect someone, how can this not be a criminal act?


    From the article:

    WASHINGTON — A California congresswoman on Tuesday reintroduced the REPEAL HIV Discrimination Act in the U.S. House, a bill that would would lead to an eventual repeal of laws that criminalize exposing others to HIV.

    Currently, 32 states and two U.S. territories that have laws that make “exposure” to or nondisclosure of HIV a crime.
  • NCGymGuy

    Posts: 9

    May 09, 2013 2:57 PM GMT
    How about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?
  • O5vx

    Posts: 3154

    May 09, 2013 3:13 PM GMT
    NCGymGuy saidHow about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?


    Good argument. I would think that by the logic expressed here, such should be the case. I don't think that it is a black and white thing; I think it is something that require lot of thinking.
  • awm55

    Posts: 619

    May 09, 2013 3:14 PM GMT
    NCGymGuy saidHow about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?


    I really don't see how accidentally giving someone the flu is the same as knowingly infecting someone with a chronic incurable lifelong disease.
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    May 09, 2013 3:22 PM GMT
    awm55 said
    NCGymGuy saidHow about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?


    I really don't see how accidentally giving someone the flu is the same as knowingly infecting someone with a chronic incurable lifelong disease.


    yeah its a tiny bit different lol

    tumblr_m6veaoHPN01r3zat8.gif
  • He_Man

    Posts: 906

    May 09, 2013 3:57 PM GMT
    NCGymGuy saidHow about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?


    Not a good analogy... A cold RARELY kills someone. HIV, without detection and treatment, can lead to full-blown AIDS, which will more than likely kill the majority of its victims within two years time. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    May 09, 2013 9:18 PM GMT
    Actually, all hysteria aside spreading the flu is an excellent analogy. Influenza causes about half a million deaths each year, compared to a bit less than two million for HIV.

    Aside from the fact that the victims that you harm by walking around with the flu aren't choosing to engage in any risky behavior. It's all on you.

    There have been a few cases in which people were imprisoned for deliberately infecting others. Or in the famous case of Mary Mallon, refusing to believe that she was an asymptomatic carrier. It's a rare enough occurrence that there aren't a lot of laws that address it directly. And probably very hard to prove malicious intent.

    The point is that there isn't anything unique about HIV that its carriers should be singled out for punishment, exclusive of any other infectious disease.
  • awm55

    Posts: 619

    May 09, 2013 11:35 PM GMT
    mindgarden saidActually, all hysteria aside spreading the flu is an excellent analogy. Influenza causes about half a million deaths each year, compared to a bit less than two million for HIV.

    Aside from the fact that the victims that you harm by walking around with the flu aren't choosing to engage in any risky behavior. It's all on you.

    There have been a few cases in which people were imprisoned for deliberately infecting others. Or in the famous case of Mary Mallon, refusing to believe that she was an asymptomatic carrier. It's a rare enough occurrence that there aren't a lot of laws that address it directly. And probably very hard to prove malicious intent.

    The point is that there isn't anything unique about HIV that its carriers should be singled out for punishment, exclusive of any other infectious disease.


    Its really not comparable. Knowingly misleading an individual and engaging in behaviour that could result in the transmission of an incurable chronic life threatening illness that costs thousands of dollars a year to treat is not the same as going out in public with the flu.

    The other issue that is not being addressed is the fact that HIV is spread predominately through sexual contact, so effectively an infected individual is lying to someone simply to have sex with them.
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    May 09, 2013 11:38 PM GMT
    Most young people with HIV don't know they're infected

    "About 1,000 young people ages 13 to 24 are newly infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, each month, according to new data released for the first time.

    About 60% of HIV-positive young people have no idea that they're infected, according to the report released Tuesday.

    Young people ages 13 to 24 account for more than a quarter of the 50,000 new HIV infections each year, the CDC says. About 1.2 million Americans have HIV or AIDS."

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/menshealth/2012/11/27/most-young-people-with-hiv-dont-know-theyre-infected/1728049/

    As of the Dec 2011:

    "About 1.2 million people are living with HIV in the US but about 240,000 don't know they are infected. Each year, about 50,000 people get infected with HIV in the US. "

    "Nearly 1 in 5 people with HIV don't know they are infected, don't get HIV medical care, and can pass the virus on to others without knowing it."

    http://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/hivtesting/
  • t_boy

    Posts: 3

    May 09, 2013 11:40 PM GMT
    If you know you have HIV and you don't disclose that and someone gets infected by you, you should be in jail. Period.
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    May 09, 2013 11:43 PM GMT
    ^
    You should behave like anyone you have sex with has HIV, with the possible exception of being in a long term monogamous & needle-illegal drug free relationship (depending on the people involved in the relationship). I think if we put people in jail for not telling people that they have HIV, it would discourage people from getting tested. And we should be doing what we can to make sure that people are getting tested.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    May 10, 2013 12:53 AM GMT
    You're all insane. HIV is no longer considered a deadly disease in most jurisditions around the world. It's like giving someone the measles, not pointing a gun and firing.
  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    May 10, 2013 2:14 AM GMT
    m4rf_ said
    awm55 said
    NCGymGuy saidHow about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?


    I really don't see how accidentally giving someone the flu is the same as knowingly infecting someone with a chronic incurable lifelong disease.


    yeah its a tiny bit different lol

    tumblr_m6veaoHPN01r3zat8.gif


    Not necessarily - the flu is often fatal.
  • He_Man

    Posts: 906

    May 10, 2013 2:37 AM GMT
    waccamatt said
    m4rf_ said
    awm55 said
    NCGymGuy saidHow about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?


    I really don't see how accidentally giving someone the flu is the same as knowingly infecting someone with a chronic incurable lifelong disease.


    yeah its a tiny bit different lol



    Not necessarily - the flu is often fatal.



    Are you people out of your minds?!? Why are you guys actually comparing HIV with the common cold or Influenza? There's a huge difference, and it's absurd to try to rationalize why spreading HIV is as innocuous as catching a cold or flu. Really?

    Influenza

    (Data are for the U.S.)

    Mortality

    Number of deaths: 500
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 0.2

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm

    AIDS and HIV

    (Data are for the U.S.)

    Mortality

    Number of deaths: 8,369
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.7

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/aids-hiv.htm

    Not to mention that I have had the flu about three times in the last five years and several colds in the last couple of years, and all they did was put me down for a couple of days, or at most, a week. I didn't take any medication, and I let my body heal on its own. Furthermore, I don't have to continue taking a medical cocktail for the rest of my life to combat the flue or cold virus, unlike the cocktail you have to take for the rest of your life if you contract HIV.

    I would rather take my chances with a cold or flu virus any day than take my chances with the HIV virus and become depended on drug therapies for the rest of my life.

    This is not an Anti-HIV rant, either. I just think it's absurd that a lot of you are comparing HIV to the common cold or the Influenza. That's just downright scary as fuck! No wonder the HIV/AIDS rate is skyrocketing again, especially with this type of mentality.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 10, 2013 3:14 AM GMT
    Well, if you think HIV infection rates are skyrocketing now. Just criminalize passing the virus and people will stop getting tested and the infection rates will really skyrocket.

    You can't trust someone else with your life. You are ultimately responsible. This means sex with a condom if you are not 100% sure of your partner's status.
  • NCGymGuy

    Posts: 9

    May 10, 2013 5:17 AM GMT
    OK since some of you take issue with the influenza analogy; lets substitute Hepatitis B and/or C. Any difference here? or laws?
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    May 10, 2013 5:33 AM GMT
    barriehomeboy saidYou're all insane. HIV is no longer considered a deadly disease in most jurisditions around the world. It's like giving someone the measles, not pointing a gun and firing.


    Fucking hell, I got my fill of stupid for the month in just one sentence..
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    May 10, 2013 8:05 AM GMT
    He_Man said
    NCGymGuy saidHow about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?


    Not a good analogy... A cold RARELY kills someone. HIV, without detection and treatment, can lead to full-blown AIDS, which will more than likely kill the majority of its victims within two years time. icon_rolleyes.gif


    I see where you're going, but one does not progress from HIV infection to death in two years. Where did you come up with that? There's people who live for years with untreated HIV who are perfectly healthy -- that's how it's spread. If untreated HIvers died that quickly, there'd be no pandemic.

    That said, HIV is clearly more serious than the flu. However, all this business about people "knowingly infecting" others is bullcrap: it's your own responsibility. Every time we make a CHOICE that is not abstinence, we're putting ourselves at risk of getting an STD. There is no such thing as sex without risk.

    Unless someone with HIV holds you down and rapes you, it's ultimately your own responsibility. If you don't want to be exposed to the risks of sex, don't have sex. *shrug* But if you're going to have sex, there's risk that comes with it. If you can't be abstinent, the best you can do is assume he's HIV+ and use condoms during anal and oral sex, every time. If you're not going to do that, then accept the risk and the responsibility. Until there's a cure anyway.
  • He_Man

    Posts: 906

    May 10, 2013 8:19 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    He_Man said
    NCGymGuy saidHow about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?


    Not a good analogy... A cold RARELY kills someone. HIV, without detection and treatment, can lead to full-blown AIDS, which will more than likely kill the majority of its victims within two years time. icon_rolleyes.gif


    I see where you're going, but one does not progress from HIV infection to death in two years. Where did you come up with that? There's people who live for years with untreated HIV who are perfectly healthy -- that's how it's spread. If untreated HIvers died that quickly, there'd be no pandemic.

    That said, HIV is clearly more serious than the flu. However, all this business about people "knowingly infecting" others is bullcrap: it's your own responsibility. Every time we make a CHOICE that is not abstinence, we're putting ourselves at risk of getting an STD. There is no such thing as sex without risk.

    Unless someone with HIV holds you down and rapes you, it's ultimately your own responsibility. If you don't want to be exposed to the risks of sex, don't have sex. *shrug* But if you're going to have sex, there's risk that comes with it. If you can't be abstinent, the best you can do is assume he's HIV+ and use condoms during anal and oral sex, every time. If you're not going to do that, then accept the risk and the responsibility. Until there's a cure anyway.


    I didn't say "HIV." The statement, "which will more than likely kill the majority of its victims within two years time" follows the word "AIDS," not HIV.

    Anyhow, here's the data:

    "AIDS progresses at different rates in different people. Some people die within five years of being infected with HIV, whereas other people live for many years, even after they develop AIDS. With treatment, the average time to death after being diagnosed is ten years in the United States; without treatment, the average time to death is two years."

    http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih1/diseases/activities/activity5_aids-database2.htm
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    May 10, 2013 9:15 AM GMT
    uoft23 said
    barriehomeboy saidYou're all insane. HIV is no longer considered a deadly disease in most jurisditions around the world. It's like giving someone the measles, not pointing a gun and firing.


    Fucking hell, I got my fill of stupid for the month in just one sentence..






    This^!

    &

    Measles does not cost you $20,000-$30,000 a year.
    That's how much it costs for treatment to keep you alive from HIV/AIDS
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 10, 2013 9:52 AM GMT
    NCGymGuy saidHow about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?


    icon_rolleyes.gif
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    May 10, 2013 9:55 AM GMT
    awm55 said
    NCGymGuy saidHow about if you are sick with influenze, and you choose to go out in public, knowing, that you can spread the flu, and you pass it to someone who dies from the flu; should you go to jail for murder?


    I really don't see how accidentally giving someone the flu is the same as knowingly infecting someone with a chronic incurable lifelong disease.


    Well I have been given the flue in the past. I have also had people try to give me a slow death too, via passing on the HIV virus to me; how I see a big bloody difference.