No on Prop 8 Going Down to Defeat by 9%

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    Oct 23, 2008 10:55 PM GMT
    No on Prop 8 is now going down to defeat by 9%.

    On Wednesday night, the Public Policy Institute of California, a highly respected, non-partisan polling group, released new numbers on Proposition 8, the November 4 ballot measure that would ban same sex marriage in California. According to its findings, 53 percent of likely voters would vote "no" on Prop. 8, while 44 percent would vote "yes." "It's getting closer," says PPIC President Mark Baldassare, "but still a majority opposes

    http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/queer-town/queer-town-new-poll-shows-prop/
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    Oct 24, 2008 4:14 AM GMT
    yay!!!


    icon_biggrin.gif
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Oct 24, 2008 4:18 AM GMT
    Yey...


    but the say you worded is very very confusing.

    No on proposition 8 is down to defeat by 9%? Sounds like the "no on proposition 8 side" is doomed to lose by 9%.
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    Oct 24, 2008 4:32 AM GMT
    Just to point out that there is another extensive Forum thread on this.

    We need to be careful in being too confident here.

    Other polls do NOT show that the No vote is "leading".

    But it's clear the current ad campaign for the No on 8 side is having some good effect.

    John
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    Oct 24, 2008 4:37 AM GMT
    There are still 12 days to go. I expect the other side to continue to throw a lot of money and time at this. Their ads will continue to say that Prop 8 will expose their children to all kinds of evils.
  • SirEllingtonB...

    Posts: 497

    Oct 24, 2008 5:26 AM GMT
    Agreed. As my dear mother would phrase it, "don't count the chicks before all the eggs have hatched." Keep at it, men icon_biggrin.gif
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    Oct 24, 2008 6:30 AM GMT
    In an effort to clarify a difficult to interpret post (which sounded like it contradicted itself) here is the complete text of the article:

    Queer Town: New Poll Shows Prop. 8 Losing
    by Patrick Range McDonald
    October 22, 2008 10:56 PM

    On Wednesday night, the Public Policy Institute of California, a highly respected, non-partisan polling group, released new numbers on Proposition 8, the November 4 ballot measure that would ban same sex marriage in California. According to its findings, 53 percent of likely voters would vote "no" on Prop. 8, while 44 percent would vote "yes." "It's getting closer," says PPIC President Mark Baldassare, "but still a majority opposes Proposition 8.

    The poll was taken between October 12 and 19, around the time the No on 8 campaign aired a strong TV ad titled "Unfair." 1,186 likely voters were polled, which is a very solid sampling, and better than the SurveyUSA poll, which found Prop. 8 was winning. Pollsters read the actual ballot language to these likely voters, which says the measure would "eliminate" the right for gays and lesbians to be legally married, and then they gave their responses.

    PPIC also found these results:

    29 percent of likely Democratic voters said they would vote "yes" on Prop. 8, 67 percent would vote "no," and 4 percent "don't know." With likely Republican voters, 70 percent would vote "yes," 26 percent said "no," and 4 percent "don't know." With Independent voters, 39 percent would vote "yes," 58 percent said "no," and 4 percent "don't know."

    When the numbers are broken down according to regions, 54 percent of likely voters in the Central Valley said they would vote "yes" on Prop. 8, 43 percent said "no," and 3 percent "don't know." In the San Francisco/Bay Area, 29 percent would vote "yes," 67 percent said "no," and 3 percent "don't know. In the Los Angeles area, 42 percent would vote "yes," 55 percent said "no," and 4 percent "don't know." In the rest of Southern California, 52 percent would vote "yes," 42 percent said "no," and 6 percent "don't know."

    With ideology, 19 percent of likely voters who call themselves "liberal" would vote "yes," 77 percent said "no," and 3 percent "don't know." 41 percent of "moderates" would vote "yes," 54 percent said "no," and 5 percent "don't know." 72 percent of "conservatives" would vote "yes," 25 percent said "no," and 4 percent "don't know."

    In terms of race, PPIC didn't have a large enough sampling of African Americans to include them in the poll. But, pollsters found that 43 percent of likely Latino voters would vote "yes," 53 percent said "no," and 3 percent "don't know." 44 percent of whites would vote "yes," 52 percent said "no," and 4 percent "don't know."

    With age, 37 percent of likely voters between the age of 18 and 34 said they would vote "yes," 59 percent said "no," and 4 percent "don't know." 42 percent of likely voters between the age of 35 and 54 said they would vote "yes," 55 percent said "no," and 3 percent "don't know." 50 percent of likely voters who are 55 years old or older said they would vote "yes," 44 percent said "no," and 6 percent "don't know."

    When all likely voters were asked if they favored or opposed same sex marriage, which is a separate question from whether or not they oppose Proposition 8, 47 percent said they "favor" same sex marriage, 49 percent "oppose" it, and 5 percent "don't know." Of this statistic, Baldassare says, "It's pointing to the fact that the electorate is closely divided on this issue."

    Lastly, likely voters for both sides of the Proposition 8 battle were asked if the outcome of the November 4 vote was "very important," "somewhat important," "not too important," or "not at all important." For the "Yes" side, 69 percent of likely voters said the outcome was "very important," 20 percent said "somewhat important," 7 percent said "not too important," 3 percent said "not at all important," and 1 percent did not know.

    For the "No" side, 49 percent said the outcome was "very important," 32 percent said "somewhat important," 13 percent "not too important," and 6 percent said "not at all important." Baldassare said these numbers show the Yes side may be more passionate about the Prop. 8 outcome.

    More than race, gender, or anything else, Baldassare believes that "party politics" will be the most crucial factor in the final vote. "Obviously, the No side is going to benefit from a big Democratic turn out."

    Contact Patrick Range McDonald at pmcdonald@laweekly.com.


  • metta

    Posts: 39161

    Oct 24, 2008 6:41 AM GMT
    Just a little reminder:

    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

    -Margaret Mead


    Don't forget to donate again to No On Prop 8:
    http://www.noonprop8.com:8000/schoolsad

    ---------------------------------------------------------------


    Live Vote:
    Do you think California voters should support a ballot initiative that bans same-sex marriage?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27328723/

    --------------------------------------------------------------


    Stop The Lies: Tell The Mormon President-Prophet To cease funding of Yes on 8

    http://www.couragecampaign.org/page/s/StopTheLies


    ---------------------------------------------------------------



    Some threatening letters have gone out from the Yes on 8 campaign to those who have donated to No on 8 causes

    http://www.cbs8.com/stories/story.144185.html


    ------------------------------------------------------------------




    Courage Campaign






    Watch "Gender Auditors" and pledge to vote "NO on Prop 8"

    Don't eliminate marriage for anyone


    http://www.couragecampaign.org/page/s/noonprop8











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    Oct 24, 2008 4:21 PM GMT
    I just read this on KFMB News 8, which is a CBS affiliate...

    A threatening letter has sparked a new controversy here in San Diego surrounding the gay marriage debate. Donors who gave money to the No on Prop 8 campaign say they received blackmail letters demanding money, and the Yes on 8 campaign now says the letters were sent by their employees.

    The letter from Yes on 8 came by certified mail, demanding at least $10,000. Jim Abbot knows exactly why he's being targeted - his business gave $10,000 to a group called Equality California, which supports No on Prop 9.

    Jim says nearly 25 percent of his staff is gay.

    "We wanted to support their freedom to marry," he said.

    The letter says if Jim doesn't give an equal donation to Yes on 8, the name of his company will be published. It reads in part, "It is only fair for Proposition 8 supporters to know which companies and organizations oppose traditional marriage.

    "I feel like it's blackmail, and as you can imagine, real estate business has been tough lately and to have someone come at you like this… it's very distressing," he said.

    Yes on 8 confirms they sent around 30 companies the letter. A spokeswoman told News 8 they are just trying to hold their ground in a passionate race. She added that No on 8 supporters picketed the Manchester Grand Hyatt after Doug Manchester donated $125,000 thousand. The publicity caused at least one very large group to cancel its event at the hotel.


    I'll bet that's a MAJOR nail in the Yes On 8 coffin. You simply don't do that during an election campaign. It truly is blackmail, and extortion, as well as racketeering.

    Let's nail these fuckers to the wall!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 24, 2008 5:12 PM GMT
    I just sent the following letter to the editor of the Antelope Valley Press, which is based here in Palmdale, California. It is a very right-wing paper, and is the ONLY major newspaper up here, which is surprising considering that we're part of L.A. County. This morning I saw the headline, which screamed...

    'SENDING A MESSAGE' - Supporters of Proposition 8, which would amend the California constitution to define marriage as only between a man and a woman, attend a rally Thursday at Lancaster Baptist Church.
    Then they use the story to tout Prop 8, and gave far less time to the No On 8 side, of course. So I sent them the following...

    Dear Editor,

    I must say, I am very disappointed in the AV Press for their careful and misleading use of both captions and placement of phraseology in their story on Friday about California Proposition 8. In their captions, as well as throughout much of their story, your paper continues to parrot the deliberately misleading soft term "amend the California constitution to define marriage as only between a man and a woman," in direct opposition to not only the will of the California Supreme Court, but more fundamentally, the basic truth of the situation. Prop 8 will ELIMINATE THE RIGHTS of same-sex couples to marry. Let's be clear on this: it will ELIMINATE THE RIGHTS of certain Americans because they don't fit the narrow, bigoted, and hateful theological view of certain religious fundamentalists. You don't have to like Gays and Lesbians, but as Americans they are entitled to the SAME RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW, including the right to marry whom they choose (provided the parties in question are of legal age and sound mind), as every other American, without the interference of others who would gladly eliminate those rights based upon personal bias.

    And just today, Friday, a CBS News Affiliate in San Deigo, KFMB 8, ran the following story, exerpted here:

    "A threatening letter has sparked a new controversy here in San Diego surrounding the gay marriage debate. Donors who gave money to the No on Prop 8 campaign say they received blackmail letters demanding money, and the Yes on 8 campaign now says the letters were sent by their employees.

    The letter from Yes on 8 came by certified mail, demanding at least $10,000. Jim Abbot knows exactly why he's being targeted - his business gave $10,000 to a group called Equality California, which supports No on Prop 9.

    Jim says nearly 25 percent of his staff is gay.

    "We wanted to support their freedom to marry," he said.

    The letter says if Jim doesn't give an equal donation to Yes on 8, the name of his company will be published. It reads in part, "It is only fair for Proposition 8 supporters to know which companies and organizations oppose traditional marriage.

    "I feel like it's blackmail, and as you can imagine, real estate business has been tough lately and to have someone come at you like this… it's very distressing," he said.

    Yes on 8 confirms they sent around 30 companies the letter. A spokeswoman told News 8 they are just trying to hold their ground in a passionate race. She added that No on 8 supporters picketed the Manchester Grand Hyatt after Doug Manchester donated $125,000 thousand. The publicity caused at least one very large group to cancel its event at the hotel."
    End of exerpt.

    In short, the Yes On 8 campaign is morally and, now, legally wrong in so many ways, I can't begin to list them all. Since they know they can't get their way through fair use of the voting process, they are now resorting to blackmail, racketeering, and extortion.

    Is that really the kind of political dung-heap the AV Press wants to wallow in?

    Pony R. Horton
    Lancaster, CA

    Owner, www.respectgaymarriage.com

    Don't know if it'll even be published. But I'm doing all that my little horse brain can come up with.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 24, 2008 5:19 PM GMT
    We can ONLY HOPE & PRAY that the "No's" WIN!!!!!
  • metta

    Posts: 39161

    Oct 27, 2008 4:34 PM GMT







    Something extraordinary is happening in California.

    When it became clear a few weeks ago that right-wing extremists were pouring millions of dollars into our state to attack our fundamental freedom to marry -- Californians who care about justice started fighting back.

    Californians didn't wait for a campaign, or a consultant, or a politician to tell them what to do. Across the state, hundreds of thousands of people started standing up and speaking out against Proposition 8.

    We used our own words and spoke from our hearts. We started emailing, writing checks to No on 8, blogging, posting videos, picking up the phone and most of all speaking out at our jobs, to our friends and to our families about how terribly wrong it would be to use our Constitution to eliminate the right to marry for lesbian and gay couples.

    This has probably been one of the most powerful flash campaigns in US history. A few weeks ago, the right-wing money machine was winning. Today -0 we are on the verge of overwhelming their money with the combined power of hundreds of thousands of Californians who are doing their part to defeat Proposition 8.

    Let's keep it going. We have contributed millions already -- let's do more. We have sent millions of emails. But we can't stop until we have emailed every single person we know and asked for their vote and their support. Let's keep blogging, posting videos, writing letters, calling and talking to everyone we know.

    Proposition 8 is a terrible attack on our lesbian and gay friends, neighbors, co-workers and family members. But the response of our community shows the best of California -- hundreds of thousands of regular people across the state joining together almost spontaneously to say "NO" to using our laws to hurt our fellow Californians.

    "Yes we can" has a whole new meaning in California today. We are showing that we can stand up to right-wing extremists and protect equal rights for every single Californian.

    Let's show that we can every single day until the polls close on November 4th.
    Newsome


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gavin-newsom/protect-marriage-equality_b_137848.html

  • metta

    Posts: 39161

    Oct 27, 2008 4:40 PM GMT








    Mom's Against Pop 8




  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 27, 2008 4:54 PM GMT
    Those last two ads posted are absolutely fantastic! That kind of support is much appreciated.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 27, 2008 5:47 PM GMT
    fan-freakin-tastic videos!

    let's hope it makes the difference we need.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 27, 2008 7:05 PM GMT
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Oct 27, 2008 7:38 PM GMT
    NO on CA PROP 8!!!


    I donated $250. I hope it helps. If anyone else can donate just $10 - $20, please do, even if you aren't a citizen of California. It's not too late.

    Lets stick together and win together. One team; one fight!
  • metta

    Posts: 39161

    Oct 27, 2008 8:11 PM GMT
    Oh my gosh.....






    http://www.noonprop8.com/headlines/outraged-parents-demand-that-commercial-be-taken-off-the-air-immediately/


  • metta

    Posts: 39161

    Oct 30, 2008 3:38 PM GMT
  • metta

    Posts: 39161

    Oct 31, 2008 6:20 AM GMT

    I really like this one:






    http://www.noonprop8.com/articles/2008/10/30/new-no-on-prop-8-ad-calls-upon-californians-to-reject-discrimination/











    .
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 31, 2008 9:31 PM GMT
    If you liked that one, you might like THIS one...

  • metta

    Posts: 39161

    Nov 03, 2008 8:25 AM GMT
    No on Proposition 8
    Debunking the myths used to promote the ban on same-sex marriage.
    November 2, 2008


    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-prop8-2-2008nov02,0,5926932.story



    Ann Landers and Proposition 8

    http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-oe-howard1-2008nov01,0,299174.story




    SACRAMENTO – Magic Johnson, enshrined in the Basketball Hall of Fame after winning five NBA championships as a Los Angeles Laker, and three Most Valuable Player awards, has lent his voice to the chorus of those calling Proposition 8 wrong and unfair.


    In a recorded telephone call to California voters, Johnson says:

    "This is Magic Johnson calling to ask you to join me and Barack Obama in opposing Proposition 8.


    "Prop 8 singles out one group of Californians to be treated differently – including members of our family, our friends, and our coworkers.


    "That is not what California is about. So this Tuesday, vote no on Proposition 8. It is unfair and wrong. Thanks.
    "

    The telephone message from Magic Johnson will reach millions of California voters in the final days, urging voters to reject this discriminatory and unfair initiative.


    [url]http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Magic-Johnson-Urges-Voters-Vote/story.aspx?guid=%7B4229FB00-2AD4-4D74-9ECD-C92FC7918563%7D[/url]


    Doug Speerman




    MTV Networks/Viacom urge you to vote NO on CA PROP

    SACRAMENTO - MTV Networks/Viacom today joined the growing number of leading California businesses leaders signing onto the Equality Business Advisory Council to show their opposition to Proposition 8. Prop 8 would eliminate the fundamental right of same-sex couples to marry in California by amending the state’s Constitution.


    “On November 4th, Californians have the unique opportunity to go to the polls and stand up for what makes this a great country and a free society—inclusivity, freedom and respect for all. Proposition 8 is antithetical to those principles and a vote for ignorance, hatred and inequality,” said Judy McGrath, Chairman and CEO, MTV Networks. “MTV Networks and the Equality Business Advisory Council urge all Californian voters to send the right message and uphold the rights of same-sex couples in California, by voting ‘NO’ on Prop 8 on Election Day.


    MTV Networks/Viacom joins the Equality Business Advisory Council to take a public stand against Proposition 8.


    “We are thrilled to welcome MTV Networks/Viacom as one of a growing number of California and national businesses leaders that have become part the NO on Prop 8’s Equality Business Advisory Council,” said Geoff Kors, NO on Prop 8 Executive Committee Member.


    Other business leaders within the Equality Business Advisory Council include PG&E, Levi Strauss & Co., Google, Sweet, the Morgan Hotel Group, San Francisco Chamber of Commerce, California Black Chamber of Commerce, San Luis Obispo Chamber of Commerce, Valley Industry and Commerce Association, and the Oakland Metropolitan Chamber of Commerce.


    Obama Says Vote No On Prop 8

    http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1598407/20081101/story.jhtml?xid=rss-page

    In addition to expressing his opposition to Proposition 8, Obama said he believes and supports "strong civil unions ... that provide legal rights to same-sex couples [so] that they can visit each other in the hospital if they get sick, [so] they can transfer property to each other. If they've got benefits, they can make sure those benefits apply to their partners. I think that's the direction we need to go in. I think young people are ahead of the curve on this for the most part. Their attitude, generally, is that we should be respectful of all people, and that's the kind of politics I want to practice."



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 03, 2008 11:19 AM GMT
    *taking the champagne bottle off the shelf*
    *putting it on the table*


    Just waiting for the results .. these pulls aren't accurate ..

    So we just have to wait ..


    Now I want to know something : The whole gay marriage issue is focused in CA ... what about other states ???

    explain it to me ..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 03, 2008 11:46 AM GMT
    As goes California, so goes, eventually, the rest of the country. Right now, CA is the biggest battle, CA being an economy practically unto itself. Resources for battles are limited and focusing on CA is the right thing to do with limited resources. Additionally, the CA battle is to defend a right that already exists against the forces of those who say not everyone is equal. The battle in other states is not to defend already existant rights.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 03, 2008 4:49 PM GMT
    In New York a vote on gay marriage has been prevented by the GOP majority in the state senate. We currently have a Dem governor and the dems have held the Assembly for decades. The Republicans might lose the Senate this year, for the first time also in decades. it could come down to a one seat majority.

    If that happens, expect to hear that opening marriage or something similar will be on the way to NY - the Assembly has been solidly for it, and a dem majority in the senate will at least let it go to a vote. There may be enough moderate republicans to help.

    The current status is defined this way on wikipedia:

    "An intermediate appellate court in New York has held that the state must recognize foreign same-sex marriage licenses. That decision may be reversed on appeal or contradicted by other intermediate appellate court rulings; however, the decision matches decisions from multiple lower courts, a heavily-researched paper by the Attorney General's office[1], and an executive order by Governor Paterson; as such it would probably require legislation to reverse."


    I'm not sure what they mean by "foreign", but the executive order applied to Massachusetts, I believe, and maybe Canada as well.