Gay and Christian

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 17, 2013 3:43 AM GMT
    Do you believe homosexuality or same sex-unions or marriage of any kind or non-heterosexual people aren't excepted by the bible. The Lort clearly doesn't like homosexuality, but I can't change my sexual orientation (I'd luv 2 to turn straight but I'm scared of the females privates, and I do not know why) anyway I think gay + Christianity = no solution. What do you guys thinks?
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    May 17, 2013 4:29 AM GMT
    the bible is all a bunch of bullshit pushing the political agendas of the people who wrote the original gospels
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    May 17, 2013 4:32 AM GMT
    i'm an atheist now but back about a decade ago when i was under the spell of religion, it was one of the motivating factors that made me reject my sexual orientation. icon_sad.gif religion and theism for that matter was fucking my head up and i'm so happy that i left that alone. all those nights basically praying and begging the gay to go away from me and a whole lot of other shit too. wasn't working for me so i dropped it when i was in the 10th grade. the smartest move i ever made in my life. you can believe whatever you want to believe but that has to be really difficult to be religious and at the same time, be gay.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    May 17, 2013 4:35 AM GMT
    ArdatYaksha saidDo you believe homosexuality or same sex-unions or marriage of any kind or non-heterosexual people aren't excepted by the bible. The Lort clearly doesn't like homosexuality, but I can't change my sexual orientation (I'd luv 2 to turn straight but I'm scared of the females privates, and I do not know why) anyway I think gay + Christianity = no solution. What do you guys thinks?


    The Lord of the Old Testament clearly doesn't like all sorts of things, and permits all sorts of things we regard as bad. But today, may Christians believe strongly that the new Testament calls loudly for total acceptance of all people. The Episcopal Church, for example, has gay clergy and performs same-sex marriages - my church marches in the Pride parades in Seattle.

    If you are gay, and if you believe you were created by God - how can you believe that being gay is somehow wrong?

    Move on - learn to love yourself and work to realize that you are as God intended. If you're a reading type, get a copy of What the Bible Really Says about Homosexuality, or Bess's Pastor, I am Gay. Like many of us, you seem to have swallowed a lot of the poison. Start getting rid of and learn to love who you are.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    May 17, 2013 4:41 AM GMT
    How can you say that The Lord doesn't like homosexuality? You were made in God's image. God is gay! He's also straight. He's also a dog if you spell his name backwards, but don't ever call Mary a bitch, bitch.
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    May 17, 2013 4:50 AM GMT
    ArdatYaksha saidDo you believe homosexuality or same sex-unions or marriage of any kind or non-heterosexual people aren't excepted by the bible. The Lort clearly doesn't like homosexuality, but I can't change my sexual orientation (I'd luv 2 to turn straight but I'm scared of the females privates, and I do not know why) anyway I think gay + Christianity = no solution. What do you guys thinks?
    The Bible doesn't discuss gay people. The few verses making reference to any type of same-sex behavior are always in the context of pagan worship rituals, rape, or prostitution.

    Conservatives have butchered the Bible to use it as a weapon.
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    May 17, 2013 4:58 AM GMT
    Fiyero27 said
    ArdatYaksha saidDo you believe homosexuality or same sex-unions or marriage of any kind or non-heterosexual people aren't excepted by the bible. The Lort clearly doesn't like homosexuality, but I can't change my sexual orientation (I'd luv 2 to turn straight but I'm scared of the females privates, and I do not know why) anyway I think gay + Christianity = no solution. What do you guys thinks?
    The Bible doesn't discuss gay people. The few verses making reference to any type of same-sex behavior are always in the context of pagan worship rituals, rape, or prostitution.

    Conservatives have butchered the Bible to use it as a weapon.


    Quoted for definitive truth, although Conservative peoples weren't the only ones utilizing religion as a form of control in the past.
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    May 17, 2013 5:22 AM GMT
    The only definitive truth here is that the bible is complete and utter bullshit.
    To be a morally and ethically good person, you don't need a book of lies to tell you how to do it.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    May 17, 2013 5:38 AM GMT
    McQueen saidThe only definitive truth here is that the bible is complete and utter bullshit.
    To be a morally and ethically good person, you don't need a book of lies to tell you how to do it.


    The book of lies leads to immorality. It tells us that animals are soulless beasts, and humanity has shown such a lack of respect to a natural world that it is impossible to believe that the God who created whales wouldn't want vengeance on all of us. We're responsible for mass extinctions and we've destroyed much of creation with our crude inventions. It's arrogant of us to think that there is a God who loves earth's cancer.
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    May 17, 2013 5:45 AM GMT
    The list of rules in question has to be taken in context. It's a list of rules for God's people, the Tribes of Israel. It's sole purpose was to help the Tribes flourish and prosper not only in obedience but also economically and reproductively. Don't grow two different seeds in the same field, when broken down, is simply a misunderstood response to help fend off the death of crops through cross contamination. Two men shouldn't lie together as they do with woman because their numbers need to be plentiful. It was a matter of duty before personal gratification. You still see remnants of that ideology even in the Israelis' of today with their mandatory military service.

    I find it quite humorous that so many people bash the religion without understanding the faith. Albeit, I guess, with good reason.
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    May 17, 2013 5:50 AM GMT
    ArdatYaksha saidDo you believe homosexuality or same sex-unions or marriage of any kind or non-heterosexual people aren't excepted by the bible. The Lort clearly doesn't like homosexuality, but I can't change my sexual orientation (I'd luv 2 to turn straight but I'm scared of the females privates, and I do not know why) anyway I think gay + Christianity = no solution. What do you guys thinks?

    To answer your question in an informed way and not just broadcast an opinion takes a bit of time. I'll do my best to remain impartial.

    Old Testament = old covenant. Jesus came to fulfill the old covenant through His death & resurrection, and in that give people a chance at relationship with God without it being contingent upon striving to strictly follow all of the rules. The whole point of Christianity (what differentiates it from the Judaism of that time) is that you have your own relationship with God, and in that He is supposed to guide and direct you. The Bible is NOT God. It was only ever intended to point you to God.

    When looking at New Testament, you can see that Jesus was strangely silent on the issue. To be fair, he was also silent on a number of other "sexual deviations", as some in the Christian community would call them. Nonetheless, the principle indictments against homosexuality are brought via Paul, who is infamous for controversial statements such as 1 Timothy 2:12, "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet." People who have studied the Bible appropriately understand that there is some historical context to his controversial statements that would render them inapplicable today. The logical follow-up question is then "why wouldn't the indictments against homosexuality also be contextual?" It's also worth mentioning that the Greek word arsenokoites was first translated as homosexual in the 1800s in the KJV. That's a huge period of time between when the original Greek was penned and the KJV was completed...

    The conclusion is yours to make. I think that regardless of one's situation or whatever they're wrestling with, to call oneself a Christian means being in relationship with the God/Jesus that one believes in. If you're doing that, then you have nothing to fear. Remember that Jesus said that He, not the Bible, He is the Way, Truth and Life, and that no one comes to the Father except by Him, not the Bible, Him. Even Jesus didn't escape the effects of religion...He was crucified for opposing it!

    It's not an easy thing when two worlds, which by default are considered opposing, both feel so real to you. All the best man...you'll make it. I believe in you.
  • psycsnacha

    Posts: 161

    May 17, 2013 6:51 AM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidThe list of rules in question has to be taken in context. It's a list of rules for God's people, the Tribes of Israel. It's sole purpose was to help the Tribes flourish and prosper not only in obedience but also economically and reproductively. Don't grow two different seeds in the same field, when broken down, is simply a misunderstood response to help fend off the death of crops through cross contamination. Two men shouldn't lie together as they do with woman because their numbers need to be plentiful. It was a matter of duty before personal gratification. You still see remnants of that ideology even in the Israelis' of today with their mandatory military service.

    I find it quite humorous that so many people bash the religion without understanding the faith. Albeit, I guess, with good reason.


    Agreed. I grew up JW, and studied the bible heavily before coming out. Using it as a philosophy book, and discarding the dross, it's actually a great philosophy book. Before denouncing Christianity as a faith, I used to debate self-righteous atheist and always found their anti-Christian rhetoric laughable (still do). You cannot denounce something that you know absolutely nothing about.
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    May 17, 2013 6:56 AM GMT
    psycsnacha saidI used to debate self-righteous atheist and always found their anti-Christian rhetoric laughable (still do).
    What do you think of my "biblical scholars basically said that the original gospels were all written to push the political agendas of the people who wrote them" argument?
    because it's true.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    May 17, 2013 6:59 AM GMT
    psycsnacha said
    ConfederateGhost saidThe list of rules in question has to be taken in context. It's a list of rules for God's people, the Tribes of Israel. It's sole purpose was to help the Tribes flourish and prosper not only in obedience but also economically and reproductively. Don't grow two different seeds in the same field, when broken down, is simply a misunderstood response to help fend off the death of crops through cross contamination. Two men shouldn't lie together as they do with woman because their numbers need to be plentiful. It was a matter of duty before personal gratification. You still see remnants of that ideology even in the Israelis' of today with their mandatory military service.

    I find it quite humorous that so many people bash the religion without understanding the faith. Albeit, I guess, with good reason.


    Agreed. I grew up JW, and studied the bible heavily before coming out. Using it as a philosophy book, and discarding the dross, it's actually a great philosophy book. Before denouncing Christianity as a faith, I used to debate self-righteous atheist and always found their anti-Christian rhetoric laughable (still do). You cannot denounce something that you know absolutely nothing about.


    Somebody has to denounce it. If we all believed in the same thing, we'd never search for better understanding of the universe.
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    May 17, 2013 7:00 AM GMT
    I find it easy to believe. While I can understand the Old Testament, I couldn't ever get behind the new one. Of course...I also don't believe Jesus as he is portrayed ever existed, if at all.


    McQueen said
    psycsnacha saidI used to debate self-righteous atheist and always found their anti-Christian rhetoric laughable (still do).
    What do you think of my "biblical scholars basically said that the original gospels were all written to push the political agendas of the people who wrote them" argument?
    because it's true.
  • psycsnacha

    Posts: 161

    May 17, 2013 7:08 AM GMT
    McQueen said
    psycsnacha saidI used to debate self-righteous atheist and always found their anti-Christian rhetoric laughable (still do).
    What do you think of my "biblical scholars basically said that the original gospels were all written to push the political agendas of the people who wrote them" argument?
    because it's true.


    I agree for the most part. The Bible took hold during a time of great despair (latter part of the Roman empire) when the common man lived under an oppressive Roman empire. It offerred something novel for that region of the world; that ALL people could achieve paradise beyond the current world of misery. It reframed their current misery as a sacrifice of the present for the reward of the future, therefore gave people hope where otherwise there was none. It wasn't until after Christianity became widely popular in the Western world that the nobility realized that they could use it as a political tool for control. Afterwards, it certainly was used for that purpose.

    Reconciling being gay with Christianity didn't work so I left the religion, however many of the bible's philosophical insights about the plight of daily living and wellness are very good. I haven't picked up a bible in years, but I plan on eventually using the best parts of all faiths, as guide posts.
  • psycsnacha

    Posts: 161

    May 17, 2013 7:12 AM GMT
    HottJoe said
    psycsnacha said
    ConfederateGhost saidThe list of rules in question has to be taken in context. It's a list of rules for God's people, the Tribes of Israel. It's sole purpose was to help the Tribes flourish and prosper not only in obedience but also economically and reproductively. Don't grow two different seeds in the same field, when broken down, is simply a misunderstood response to help fend off the death of crops through cross contamination. Two men shouldn't lie together as they do with woman because their numbers need to be plentiful. It was a matter of duty before personal gratification. You still see remnants of that ideology even in the Israelis' of today with their mandatory military service.

    I find it quite humorous that so many people bash the religion without understanding the faith. Albeit, I guess, with good reason.


    Agreed. I grew up JW, and studied the bible heavily before coming out. Using it as a philosophy book, and discarding the dross, it's actually a great philosophy book. Before denouncing Christianity as a faith, I used to debate self-righteous atheist and always found their anti-Christian rhetoric laughable (still do). You cannot denounce something that you know absolutely nothing about.


    Somebody has to denounce it. If we all believed in the same thing, we'd never search for better understanding of the universe.


    True, but denounce based upon knowledge, not based upon convenience. Regardless of how convenient (i.e. being gay, it's easy to say that a religion that doesn't realistically acknowledge the existence of gays is inherently wrong).
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    May 17, 2013 7:20 AM GMT
    I'm a Christian and i somehow manage.
  • HottJoe

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    May 17, 2013 7:23 AM GMT
    I think we have to overcome the idea that we are God's children and we can trash the planet, drive most of creation to extinction, then go live happily ever after in heaven. It's not only arrogant, but it's irresponsible, and ultimately untrue. There's no evidence of God, meanwhile the planet is in desperate straits. Global warming is in the news every day. We're facing dark times, and reading the Bible is like putting your head in the sand.
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    May 17, 2013 7:35 AM GMT
    HottJoe saidI think we have to overcome the idea that we are God's children and we can trash the planet, drive most of creation to extinction, then go live happily ever after in heaven. It's not only arrogant, but it's irresponsible, and ultimately untrue. There's no evidence of God, meanwhile the planet is in desperate straits. Global warming is in the news every day. We're facing dark times, and reading the Bible is like putting your head in the sand.


    The Bible says that people should be stewards of the Earth, so if someone is a Christian and doesn't care about the Earth then they are disobeying God. Some people pick and choose parts of the Bible for their own selfish reasons and always will.
  • HottJoe

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    May 17, 2013 7:55 AM GMT
    likan said
    HottJoe saidI think we have to overcome the idea that we are God's children and we can trash the planet, drive most of creation to extinction, then go live happily ever after in heaven. It's not only arrogant, but it's irresponsible, and ultimately untrue. There's no evidence of God, meanwhile the planet is in desperate straits. Global warming is in the news every day. We're facing dark times, and reading the Bible is like putting your head in the sand.


    The Bible says that people should be stewards of the Earth, so if someone is a Christian and doesn't care about the Earth then they are disobeying God. Some people pick and choose parts of the Bible for their own selfish reasons and always will.


    The Bible says we should be stewards of the earth, but that's just given people a free pass to rape the earth. If God had any foresight he would've cut the commandment about not worshipping other gods and instead made better sure we really understood the gravity of stewardship. Personally, if I were God I would've had enough of us after what we did to the whales. We literally hunted them down one by one until they had no place to hide and murdered all of them by stabbing them through the lungs. Most species of whales are extinct. There was no steward to defend them. Hopefully there is a planet somewhere in the universe where the whales live free of human persecution. Earth would've been better off without us, and to call us stewards is arrogant and naive.
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    May 17, 2013 8:06 AM GMT
    HottJoe said
    likan said
    HottJoe saidI think we have to overcome the idea that we are God's children and we can trash the planet, drive most of creation to extinction, then go live happily ever after in heaven. It's not only arrogant, but it's irresponsible, and ultimately untrue. There's no evidence of God, meanwhile the planet is in desperate straits. Global warming is in the news every day. We're facing dark times, and reading the Bible is like putting your head in the sand.


    The Bible says that people should be stewards of the Earth, so if someone is a Christian and doesn't care about the Earth then they are disobeying God. Some people pick and choose parts of the Bible for their own selfish reasons and always will.


    The Bible says we should be stewards of the earth, but that's just given people a free pass to rape the earth. If God had any foresight he would've cut the commandment about not worshipping other gods and instead made better sure we really understood the gravity of stewardship. Personally, if I were God I would've had enough of us after what we did to the whales. We literally hunted them down one by one until they had no place to hide and murdered all of them by stabbing them through the lungs. Most species of whales are extinct. There was no steward to defend them. Hopefully there is a planet somewhere in the universe where the whales live free of human persecution. Earth would've been better off without us, and to call us stewards is arrogant and naive.


    Also remember that the Bible was written at a time when those were not the main problem, so it wouldn't have anything about that. People should do more for the Earth as well as for the starving children, the homeless and many other important problems. Christians are not the only ones who don't do enough, it's not a problem with religion, it's a human problem.
  • HottJoe

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    May 17, 2013 8:20 AM GMT
    likan said
    HottJoe said
    likan said
    HottJoe saidI think we have to overcome the idea that we are God's children and we can trash the planet, drive most of creation to extinction, then go live happily ever after in heaven. It's not only arrogant, but it's irresponsible, and ultimately untrue. There's no evidence of God, meanwhile the planet is in desperate straits. Global warming is in the news every day. We're facing dark times, and reading the Bible is like putting your head in the sand.


    The Bible says that people should be stewards of the Earth, so if someone is a Christian and doesn't care about the Earth then they are disobeying God. Some people pick and choose parts of the Bible for their own selfish reasons and always will.


    The Bible says we should be stewards of the earth, but that's just given people a free pass to rape the earth. If God had any foresight he would've cut the commandment about not worshipping other gods and instead made better sure we really understood the gravity of stewardship. Personally, if I were God I would've had enough of us after what we did to the whales. We literally hunted them down one by one until they had no place to hide and murdered all of them by stabbing them through the lungs. Most species of whales are extinct. There was no steward to defend them. Hopefully there is a planet somewhere in the universe where the whales live free of human persecution. Earth would've been better off without us, and to call us stewards is arrogant and naive.


    Also remember that the Bible was written at a time when those were not the main problem, so it wouldn't have anything about that. People should do more for the Earth as well as for the starving children, the homeless and many other important problems. Christians are not the only ones who don't do enough, it's not a problem with religion, it's a human problem.


    The Bible is treated at prophetic, so it shouldn't matter that it's old. If it doesn't hold up to the world today then it is no more useful to us than stories of Zeus. I'm not sure where you stand, but for two decades Christians denied global warming and stood in the way of anything meaningful getting done. I understand that conservatives are ready to believe in global warming now, but it might be too late, according to recent revelations, such as a recent CO2 milestone. If I seem resentful toward religion it's because religion has always stood in the way of decency, common sense, respect towards others, etc. Even the wars we find ourselves in are rooted in religion and oil, two of our biggest evils. I think to save the planet people need to get their head out of mythology and start problem solving in reality.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 17, 2013 12:40 PM GMT
    Fuck the bible. Problem solved.
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    May 17, 2013 3:50 PM GMT
    theantijock saidFuck the bible. Problem solved.


    +1

    The debate is tiresome.
    Rule one: try to be a nice person.

    done.