Top 10 reasons to vote for Obama (for conservatives)

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 3:54 PM GMT
    Share this article with your conservative friends that can think independently, hopefully it will open their eyes.

    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-top-ten-rea.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 5:01 PM GMT
    maverickcj_ca saidShare this article with your conservative friends that can think independently, hopefully it will open their eyes.

    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-top-ten-rea.html


    Excellent reasons all. Another more cynical reason I came up with is the very serious problems facing the US and the world at this time. The global financial crisis will likely result in a fairly serious recession that could last into the next decade. The economy's woes have diverted people's attention to global warming which will continue to be an increasing problem. The state of the USA's entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare.

    The next president could actually in the long run hold a losing hand which will result in a one term presidency. In 2012 the Republicans may come back with a strong candidate (not Sarah Palin) and sweep back into power.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 8:02 PM GMT
    Perfect...King Obama ...He is going to take care of everything so we don't need to exercise what was once a democracy.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Oct 29, 2008 8:18 PM GMT
    I'm still waiting for ONE good reason icon_lol.gif
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Oct 29, 2008 8:26 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI'm still waiting for ONE good reason icon_lol.gif


    Hows about this for a reason:

    If you don't Palin will sell Alaska on Ebay to the AIP and the energy it produces will be foreign. icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 8:51 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI'm still waiting for ONE good reason icon_lol.gif


    Nobody sleeps with republicans anymore. It's so 2002.

    How's that?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 9:03 PM GMT
    Who posts a thread and then disappears hours later?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 9:23 PM GMT
    Global_Citizen saidWho posts a thread and then disappears hours later?


    A hit and run forum poster. I have noticed a few over the last few months. Some people need positive reinforcement with every thread otherwise they get hurt feelings and throw in their marbles. The guy who posted "Body, Mind, Soul" also has dropped out.

    Now I have a hide that would make a rhinoceros proud. I am sure my feelings get hurt, but it is my mind that hurts faster. Especially when somebody posts a comment that makes absolutely no rational sense.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 10:30 PM GMT
    Obama Pictures and McCain Pictures
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 11:20 PM GMT
    Truthfully, the only one of Sullivan's arguments with which I can fully agree is number ten.

    The underlying premise of number 9 is false. Bush has added more debt, but the fiscal conservatives that Sullivan implores in number 9 also understand that Bush spent too much money. It's an empirical fact that lowering taxes increases private and small business investment AND revenues to the federal coffers -- Bush's tax cut did this big time; he fucked up by allowing spending to get out of control. Obama's "tax cut" is farce -- 40 percent of Americans (nearly half of his much bally-hooed 95 percent who will get a cut) don't pay income taxes, so how do you cut their income taxes? Obama responds with some nonsense about "well they pay other taxes" -- so cut those, Barry. Raising income taxes will lower revenues and a Democratic controlled Congress will likely spend more, the combination of which will increase our debt.

    Number 8 is laughable. I love Bush's foreign policy. He has killed a shitload of terrorists. Keep it up. But Sullivan really loses it when he implicitly compares McCain's response to the Georgia situation against that of Barack Obama. McCain's response was no-nonsense and proper. Obama wanted to ship it to the UN Security Council where any condemnation or sanctions against Russia would fail due to a veto by.... RUSSIA. Yeah, he's got a real command of foreign policy... Christ, even Sarkozy called Obama an empty suit on foreign policy the other day.

    Number 7. What sort of evidence does Sullivan present that McCain would delegate foreign policy to generals? Essentially none. I guess Sullivan needed something to get his list up to ten -- I'll give him a pass on this silly point. (Note to Sullivan: Consulting generals on matters of WAR is prudent.)

    Number 6 -- Hilarious. Here, Sullivan turns the presidential election not only into a high school popularity contest (he's so calm and coooooool), but he tries to seal the deal with the age-old caricature of McCain as some hot-headed maniac. It's like Sullivan dusted off the tired old rants against Reagan and just changed the name. Andrew, come on -- give me something I can work with!

    Number 5 -- Apparently Andrew Sullivan was high when he concocted this folly. Ironic that the mention of faith would even enter into a discussion supporting a left-leaning candidate. As for Obama's Christianity, is Sullivan really serious about us reconsidering Rev. Jeremiah Wright (Obama's self-proclaimed spiritual mentor, or the man, as Michelle Obama put it, who helped her husband find Jesus) again? Please, I can't listen to those insidious clips anymore -- I can't remember where I put my ear plugs.

    Number 4 -- Nice sentiment. Extremely short on substance.

    Number 3 -- Newsflash, Andrew... Barack is running against John McCain.

    Number 2 -- an excellent point, but I don't see how Obama is the answer. The only scenario I can surmise is that perhaps he feels that an Obama presidency will purge the republican party of the lazy-ass over-spenders and save conservatism. I don't think Barack will be sending Sullivan a thank-you note for THAT point.

    Number 1 is the most egregiously incorrect paragraph on the page. For the first time since Islamic terrorists started poking the United States in the chest (you know that annoying trait of bullies) in the late 70s, Bush and Cheney finally said "enough" and started killing the fuckers. BRAVO. Andrew suggests a failure because Al-Qaeda is not destroyed. Well, he should have paid attention in September of 2001 when the President indicated that this would not be a brief struggle, but one that would take generations. Everyone shook their heads "yes," but apparently Sullivan must have taken a bathroom break. Al Qaeda is in worse shape than they were 8 years ago... many dead, many captured, cells disrupted all over the world, assets seized. And Iraq? Well the guy who offered the winning strategy months before anyone else was none other than John McCain.

    On the plus side for an Obama Presidency? State of the Union Addresses will certainly be much more mellifluous...

    Caveat -- I know McCain is not perfect and I don't intend my post(s) to infer otherwise. I just think on balance, he's the better man for the job.

    Don't hate me because I'm an "R." ;-)

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 11:26 PM GMT
    FALCONER saidIt's an empirical fact that lowering taxes increases private and small business investment AND revenues to the federal coffers


    I am not hating on you because you are a Republican. I was just curious how this one worked? Could you explain, or provide some empirical data?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 11:36 PM GMT
    MunchingHusseinZombie said
    FALCONER saidIt's an empirical fact that lowering taxes increases private and small business investment AND revenues to the federal coffers


    I am not hating on you because you are a Republican. I was just curious how this one worked? Could you explain, or provide some empirical data?


    To a certain extent that seems to be true (look at what happened when Ireland eliminated corporate taxes), but eventually the impact is minimal and if taxes are slashed too much, deficits arise resulting in constraints on publicly funded programs that benefit the economy (e.g. health care, infrastructure). Ronald Reagan in the early 1980s slashed taxes, but did so as the economy headed into a recession, and at the same time boosted defence spending. The result was a ballooning budget deficit that Clinton finally got out of near the end of his 8 years. In 2001 the Federal Government ran a surplus, but since then it has drowned in a sea of red ink.

    Cutting taxes and stimulating growth does not have to result in deficits if spending is curtailed. The problem is it often is not. A couple of hours examining the US federal budget over the past two decades or so reveals why not. Defence and mandatory programmes (social security, medicare, medicaid) continuing to eat up a significant part of the budget while revenues have not kept pace. The war in Iraq added fuel to the fire.

    Regardless of who wins next Tuesday, their ability to keep their promises on tax cuts and economic stimulus packages will be challenged from day one. Hopefully pragmatism will triumph over promises if keeping them causes too much grief.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 29, 2008 11:40 PM GMT


    We didn't knew what's his idea for "gay marriage" issue ... It's sick that in 2009 still politicians are not giving us the basic rights ..and I know it's not important in comparison to other things he needs to solve ..

    You all heard what Palin said about this issue ...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 30, 2008 12:16 AM GMT
    This is going to be a little long, but just in case you aren't convinced yet, here are 25 reasons John McCain sucks.... courtesy of OC Weekly:

    1. He’s a closet neocon.
    According to Rolling Stone, McCain privately calls himself “the original neocon.” McCain began pushing for war with Iraq in the ‘90s, and within hours of the World Trade Center attacks he was on talk shows insisting Iraq was developing WMDs. Pre-war, he repeatedly stated we would win easily. Later, after the war became a disaster, McCain pretended he’d always been against it. “The American people were led to believe this could be some kind of day at the beach,” he said in 2006, “which many of us fully understood from the beginning would be a very, very difficult undertaking.”

    2. Elect McCain, and you can expect more pointless, bloody wars.
    McCain clearly has his sights set on Iran, for starters. Retired general John H. Johns, McCain’s former friend, says if McCain’s elected, he’ll be “Bush on steroids. . . . He puts military at the top of foreign policy rather than diplomacy.”

    3. He doesn’t know when to hold ’em or fold ’em.
    McCain’s got a gambling jones. He blows thousands per game playing craps. John Weaver, McCain’s former chief strategist, told Time, “Enjoying craps opens up a window on a central thread constant in John’s life. . . . Taking a chance, playing against the odds.” Suddenly it makes sense why McCain chose a moose-hunting beauty queen for his running mate: It was a huge gamble. We can’t risk McCain “rolling snake eyes” with America’s future.

    4. He’ll destroy what’s left of the economy.
    McCain has admitted that “economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.” With the economy so grim that every morning you pray your corner ATM still dispenses cash, do you want to hand things over to a guy who declared this March he’s “always for less regulation”? One of the Keating Five? Mister “The fundamentals of our economy are strong”? Elect McCain, and blame yourself when your family is staying warm by burning your useless checkbooks.

    5. That awful woman.
    I don’t even want to get started on Sarah Palin, or this list will quickly turn into 25 reasons why she sucks. Let me just say that Palin is so horrible that people who like her are a danger to themselves and others, and shouldn’t be allowed to walk around without protective headgear.

    6. When Karl Rove says your campaign’s lies have gone too far, you’ve gone too far.
    McCain’s running a revoltingly sleazy campaign, but it’ll be tough to sink lower than his commercial suggesting Obama wanted to teach kindergartners about sex. (“Learning about sex before learning to read?”) The ad implies teachers would be telling kids how to find the G-spot before naptime, but the bill Obama co-sponsored would actually have focused on age-appropriate topics like how to avoid molestation. Imagine if Obama’s ad people were willing to twist the truth like that: “John McCain doesn’t want little kids to know about the dangers of pedophiles. Does John McCain like pedophiles?”

    7. He’s Charles Keating Jr.’s ex-BFF.
    In the late ‘80s, Charles Keating Jr., owner of Irvine-based Lincoln Savings and Loan, also owned McCain’s ass. McCain and four other senators (the infamous “Keating Five”) received ample campaign contributions from Keating. McCain partied like a pimp on Keating’s dime, enjoying what he called “Charlie Keating’s Shangri-La.” Keating actually boasted to reporters about buying McCain’s loyalty. The Keating Five pressured regulators to overlook Keating’s illegal activities, leading to a bank failure costing taxpayers over $120 billion by some estimates. It was a dress rehearsal for our current horror show, with McCain at center stage. McCain officially cut ties to Keating in 1987. His wife’s business partnership with Keating lasted until 1998, but McCain insists he didn’t know.

    8. He agrees with Bush 95 percent of the time.
    McCain’s trying to distance himself from the unpopular Bush, but in 2007 McCain voted with Bush 95 percent of the time, according to Factcheck.org. Seriously, your dog doesn’t even agree with you 95 percent of the time.

    9. He’s very old.
    Things McCain is older than: Life Magazine, World War II, the Golden Gate Bridge and Keith Richards. In 2000, McCain himself suggested he’d be too old to run by 2008, saying, “I think I might be ready to go down to the old soldiers’ home.”

    10. He’s in lousy health.
    He’s endured four bouts of malignant melanoma, the deadliest form of skin cancer. Ominously, McCain refuses to allow full access to his medical records.

    11. His age and health really matter.
    It’s not unlikely McCain would croak in office. Then we’d be stuck with Palin, and W’s administration would seem like the good old days.

    12. He’s such an asshole, other Republicans hate him.
    Various Republican senators have described McCain tantrums where he shouts profanity and shoves people. “It was incidents of irrational behavior,” said Bob Smith. John LeBoutillier calls McCain a “vicious person,” adding, “Nearly all the Republican senators endorsed Bush because they knew McCain from serving with him in the Senate.” Thad Cochran claims that during 1987 diplomatic talks in Nicaragua, McCain went nuts and grabbed a Sandinista official. This January, Cochran said, “The thought of [McCain] being president sends a cold chill down my spine.” (Cochran has since endorsed McCain. You can’t really blame him . . . would you want to be on McCain’s bad side?)

    13. Seriously, he’s a total asshole.
    “At least I don’t plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt.” —McCain to his wife in 1992, in full earshot of reporters, after she joked about his thinning hair.

    14. Wow, is he an asshole.
    “Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father.” —A McCain joke from 1998. (Karma in action: Little Chelsea grew up to be a stone fox, while the once-handsome McCain now has a head like a moldy biscuit.)

    15. He’s an asshole, asshole, asshole.
    When McCain returned from Vietnam, his then-wife had been in an accident that left her five inches shorter and on crutches. While the mother of his children was undergoing painful physical therapy, McCain cheated on her and eventually dumped her for a younger, prettier and richer girl (the current Mrs. McCain).

    16. Did we mention he’s an asshole?
    McCain has repeatedly clashed with families of POW-MIAs, and in 1996 one clash turned particularly ugly. A woman in a wheelchair equipped with portable oxygen approached him to ask about her son. Witnesses say McCain raised his arm to strike her before shoving her wheelchair away. Forget running the country, you shouldn’t trust McCain to watch your cat.

    17. No abortions for you.
    McCain has said, “I do not support Roe v. Wade. It should be overturned.” Palin, meanwhile, wouldn’t let you have an abortion even if your dad raped you.

    18. If McCain wins, expect more Katrinas.
    McCain swears he’d never mismanage a disaster response like Bush mismanaged Katrina. But after Katrina, McCain actually voted against emergency funding for Louisiana and Medicaid and unemployment for Katrina victims. (And where was McCain the day Katrina hit? In Arizona, celebrating his birthday with Bush. Cameras captured the pair cutting into a big cake and grinning like newlyweds.)

    19. He’s a self-described “computer illiterate.”
    In an age when a cyber-terrorist attack could cripple America, should we elect a dude who doesn’t understand what the kids are doing with those infernal machines?

    20. “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.”
    McCain criticized Obama for publicly discussing his plans for Pakistan . . . after McCain announced his own aggressive intentions toward Iran in song form.

    21. His “senior moments.”
    McCain’s had troubling memory lapses. He referred to the “Iraq/Pakistan border,” forgetting Iran is between those countries. He addressed a rally as “my fellow prisoners,” suggesting he may be having ‘Na
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Oct 30, 2008 4:30 PM GMT
    Best reason ever:

    Cuz prominent conservative Dr. Stephen J. Colbert just endorsed Barack Obama.