Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin, what if things were switched around?.....think about it. Would the country's collective point of view be different? - My Dad sent me this morning a very interesting hypothesis....Let me know your thoughts. . .

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2008 1:31 PM GMT
    Ponder the following: WHAT IF THINGS WERE SWITCHED AROUND?

    What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?

    What if Barack Obama had finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class, like John McCain did, instead of being selected as President of the Harvard Law Review?

    What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?

    What if Obama was the candidate who screwed around on and then left his first wife because she'd been in a severe disfiguring car accident, and she no longer measured up to his standards?

    What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a months-long affair while he was still married?

    What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization and initially lied about it?

    What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five? (The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980's-90's which cost taxpayers over $3 billion in investments and bailout. McCain was implicated in that scandal.)

    What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker? (wha'?)

    What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter?

    What if Obama was the one who had military education/experience that included many discipline problems and a record of crashing four planes?

    What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?

    What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distribution and been convicted of felonies for associating with organized crime figures and corruption?

    What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?

    You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election
    numbers would be as close as they are?

    This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.

    Educational Background:
    Barack Obama:
    Columbia University - B.A., Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations.
    Harvard Law School - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude, first black ever elected to be President of The Harvard Law Review

    Joseph Biden:
    University of Delaware - B.A. in History; and B.A. in Political Science.
    Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

    vs.

    John McCain:
    United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

    Sarah Palin:
    Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
    North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
    University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
    Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
    University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

    Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the world. You make the call.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2008 1:52 PM GMT
    Anyone with a nice enough smile and a charm could run the democratic ticket and win. There was never a chance for republicans. They'll have to wait 4 years for the next showdown when Hillary tries to convince Washington and America they made the right party pick, but the wrong candidate choice.
  • DiverScience

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    Oct 30, 2008 1:58 PM GMT
    Easy...

    Obama would be labeled "an angry black man" and wouldn't have even had a shot at the nomination.
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    Oct 30, 2008 2:17 PM GMT
    In other words, what if this happened?

    freaky_friday.jpg


    McCain and Obama both have compelling biographies. I am not voting for Obama bio or his charisma primarily, I am voting for his policy.
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    Oct 30, 2008 2:19 PM GMT
    I am very impressed by Obama's educational background. At least on paper he will represent us well in regards to other World leaders. George W. Bush earned an MBA from Harvard....that I will never understand - no matter what we think of his intelligence, his inability to really grasp the issues of the economy perplexes me.
  • DiverScience

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    Oct 30, 2008 2:25 PM GMT
    beefy_HUSSEIN_artist saidI am very impressed by Obama's educational background. At least on paper he will represent us well in regards to other World leaders. George W. Bush earned an MBA from Harvard....that I will never understand - no matter what we think of his intelligence, his inability to really grasp the issues of the economy perplexes me.


    Why? While Harvard has an excellent reputation, it *also* has a reputation that once you get in, you will graduate, no matter what they have to do to get you there. They have one of the lowest drop/kick rates around. So all he had to do was get in.
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    Oct 30, 2008 2:26 PM GMT
    He would very much indeed be labeled an angry black man if not a militant.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Oct 30, 2008 2:32 PM GMT
    Trance24 saidAnyone with a nice enough smile and a charm could run the democratic ticket and win. There was never a chance for republicans. They'll have to wait 4 years for the next showdown when Hillary tries to convince Washington and America they made the right party pick, but the wrong candidate choice.


    If Obama wins in 2008, it will likely be the end of Hillary's hopes to be President barring any unforeseen events. But don't give up on the Republicans just yet, Trance, as the people haven't voted yet and that is the only poll that counts
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2008 2:33 PM GMT
    DiverScienceWhy? While Harvard has an excellent reputation, it *also* has a reputation that once you get in, you will graduate, no matter what they have to do to get you there. They have one of the lowest drop/kick rates around. So all he had to do was get in.
    [/quote]

    I didn't know that. . .but I presume that getting in is the difficult part. And graduating "Harvard Law School - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude, first black ever elected to be President of The Harvard Law Review.", I would consider an impressive accomplishment.

    I graduated from Texas A&M and I consider that an accomplishment - LOL - I survived and was News editor of my school paper. A Gay Muslim - hehehe - so maybe I am seeing it from my own experiences.
  • DiverScience

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    Oct 30, 2008 2:42 PM GMT
    The second part, definitely an accomplishment. The first... an accomplishment if you're not from a well monied high donating family (i.e. not Bush)
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    Oct 30, 2008 2:51 PM GMT
    WOW. So I guess that the honors that Obama graduated with, what they just added that on for good measure? Simply pluck out of the sky and they just said here ya go buddy.


    I will take a person who graduated from law school with distinction over someone who graduated and the bottom of the Naval Academy for President any day and I don't care what color you are.

    Don't we want the best and the brightest in the WhiteHouse...hmmmm.

    Had no idea until now that Havard had that rep, that one would graduate just by merely getting accepted....I sort thought you had to attend classes and do the work and make the grades....in short Driver Science are you saving that Obama's JD is not worth the paper it's written on? What about his undergrad degree from Columbia which is a very excellent school?

    I am and I continue to be impressed by Obama this is coming from a person who supported Sen. Clinton.


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    Oct 30, 2008 2:57 PM GMT
    I think Ducky44 that Diver does agree...since he believes ( i tend to agree with him) that Bush's Havard MBA was mainly due his family's influence/fortune.

    But I do want to emphasize this...I will gladly vote for the "rich" one - when I see they are trying to learn from their current environment. Obama excelled at Harvard and tried to get the most out of his education. It doesn't seem like McCain had that mindset in his military career.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2008 3:09 PM GMT
    BTW...from wikepedia...Bush's education background:

    Texas Air National Guard and Harvard MBA
    In May 1968, Bush enlisted in the Texas Air National Guard.After training, he was assigned to duty in Houston, flying Convair F-102s out of Ellington Air Force Base.Critics allege that Bush was favorably treated because of his father's political standing, citing his selection as a pilot and his irregular attendance.In June 2005, the United States Department of Defense released all the records of Bush's Texas Air National Guard service, which remain in its official archives.

    In 1970, Bush applied to but was not accepted into the University of Texas School of Law in 1970.In late 1972 and early 1973, he drilled with the Alabama Air National Guard, having moved to Memphis to work on the unsuccessful U.S. Senate campaign of Republican Winton M. Blount. In October 1973, Bush was discharged from the Texas Air National Guard and transferred to the Air Force inactive reserves.

    Beginning in the Fall of 1973, Bush attended Harvard University, where he earned a MBA.He was discharged from the Air Force Reserve on November 21, 1974, at the end of his six-year service obligation.

    .....oh btw .....
    Alcohol abuse
    Bush had multiple accounts of alcohol abuse. In one instance, Bush was arrested near his family's summer home in Kennebunkport, Maine for driving under the influence of alcohol at the age of thirty on September 4, 1976. He pleaded guilty, was fined US$150, and had his Maine driver's license suspended until 1978. Bush gave up alcohol in 1986.


    Looks like our President had a few issues while attending school...at the very least right after he finished his MBA. And I am aware he has been honest about his problem with achohol. Again, my concern is about life's opportunities. We all have our down moments! Obama seems to be the clear winner when it comes to seizing the moment. A SIGN of a true leader!
  • Timbales

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    Oct 30, 2008 3:17 PM GMT
    What if the US democratic process wasn't this bloated, ineffective money swallowing machine that does nothing to address the issues in our country?
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    Oct 30, 2008 3:24 PM GMT
    Timberoo saidWhat if the US democratic process wasn't this bloated, ineffective money swallowing machine that does nothing to address the issues in our country?


    Yes, seriously, no shit. Thanks, Timberoo. If there is going to be a post that will 'what if' everything to death, can you at least pick a productive topic like above?
  • twentyfourhou...

    Posts: 243

    Oct 30, 2008 3:28 PM GMT
    I heard a segment on NPR recently in which McCain stated he felt Palin is qualified to assume the duties of the US Presidency THEN turned around and said Obama is NOT qualified for the duties of the US Presidency. What!
    Not that i expected him to say Palin is not qualified but ......................... In all honesty, i would probably lean for McCain had he not chosen Palin as his running mate. Also, i live in the midwest where i can tell you (in the area i live) RACE discrimination is playing a significant part in this election. It is sad, pathetic, and disgusting to hear and read racist comments in a public forum (local radio talk shows - callers AND host alike along with local newspaper). This stuff is largely "acceptable" and the norm here. Those of you who live in more ethnically diverse areas or more "accepting" parts of the country do not realize how much racism is still alive and thriving in many parts of our country.
  • DiverScience

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    Oct 30, 2008 3:33 PM GMT
    Ducky44 said WOW. So I guess that the honors that Obama graduated with, what they just added that on for good measure? Simply pluck out of the sky and they just said here ya go buddy.


    Read what I wrote before you get cranky, thanks. I specifically elucidated in my second post that both Obama's acceptance and honors meant a lot, while Bush's acceptance and graduation mean little.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2008 3:36 PM GMT
    Hey Twenty,

    Believe me WE know all about how rampant bigotry and racism is in this country. We have been condition to live with it and confront it when we are subjected it to. TRUST ME WE KNOW! 8-)

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    Oct 30, 2008 3:40 PM GMT
    triguy01 saidHonestly, who really wants to vote for either...

    Not that any one person would or could have all of the answers and solutions to our current problems; I don't think either canidate has any 'real' solutions, and either one is actually going to be able to do anything worth while to 'change' things...

    We can go on and on all day about what we need; what we definetly don't need is another politician, we need a President.

    So, to whomever wins next week - I hope you and your party are best prepared to step up to the plate and play President, not politician, and stop feeding everyone these lines of BS that aren't going to do a thing for anyone.


    I am ready to vote for Obama, triguy01. After living in Texas (26+ years) and dealing with Bush as a governor and then as the President, I am ready to flip the coin and see what the other side can provide.
    I am very intimately aware and very, very tired of dealing with the good ole Bubba system that is so prevalent in Texas and in Republican politics. And I grew weary of justifying myself as an Arab ...as a Muslim...as a Gay man in a culture/society/city that looked down at all three!
    When I look at Obama and how he approaches people - I don't see the patronizing attitude I saw with so many peers in the south. This has nothing to do with politics for me anymore. If he was Republican I would vote for him. The main issues both candidates are addressing are just parts of a mulitiple choice question. McCain and Obama only give us answers A and B. There is still many more choices we can consider to resolve our domestic and foreign crisis. But at the very least when Obama meets with world leaders to deal with these issues - he will look at them as equals. I am embarrassed with our current President's presences on the World political stage. I don't see McCain playing his part in being benevolent, understanding and compassionate.
    And yes this is personal...I have family that still suffers under a regime in Libya. I don't see McCain helping to make that government expand and open up business/trade in a environmentally healthy and ethically conscious manner. (McCain's answers to the Columbia trade issue in the last debate really sickened me!)
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Oct 30, 2008 3:44 PM GMT
    This might have been interesting if the switcheroo wasn't so skewed in favor of Obama and was actually something bi-partisan. I didn't see anything like:

    What if John McCain were hiding his college thesis; had launched one of his state senate campaigns from a domestic terrorist's livingroom; Refused to admit "The Surge" is working even though by all accounts it is; Never bothered to utter the word "Victory" when referring to the war in Iraq, much less the war on terror; Broke his promise to the American people in terms of his campaign finance; Sat in a church for 20 years that spewed "Hate-America" rhetoric and, in fact, called that preacher "His mentor"; Only had 3 years of experience in the U.S. Senate, 2 of which he spent running for President.

    Nope, don't believe I saw much of that in the OP's original post
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    Oct 30, 2008 3:47 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidThis might have been interesting if the switcheroo wasn't so skewed in favor of Obama and was actually something bi-partisan. I didn't see anything like:

    What if John McCain were hiding his college thesis; had launched one of his state senate campaigns from a domestic terrorist's livingroom; Refused to admit "The Surge" is working even though by all accounts it is; Never bothered to utter the word "Victory" when referring to the war in Iraq, much less the war on terror; Broke his promise to the American people in terms of his campaign finance; Sat in a church for 20 years that spewed "Hate-America" rhetoric and, in fact, called that preacher "His mentor"; Only had 3 years of experience in the U.S. Senate, 2 of which he spent running for President.

    Nope, don't believe I saw much of that in the OP's original post


    You've been talking to a wall for 12 months now. Maybe you should focus your rhetorical efforts on all the Arizona voters who are abandoning the McCain ship.
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    Oct 30, 2008 3:49 PM GMT
    Driver,

    I was merely asking a question and making a point. As far as the charge of my getting cranky, it's not that serious, nor to I take these post that serious.
    It's just an exchange.

    If you thought I was getting cranky you can relax...I don't know you to get angry or cranky at you, just as you do not know me to get cranky with me.



  • DiverScience

    Posts: 1426

    Oct 30, 2008 3:54 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidThis might have been interesting if the switcheroo wasn't so skewed in favor of Obama and was actually something bi-partisan. I didn't see anything like:

    What if John McCain were hiding his college thesis; had launched one of his state senate campaigns from a domestic terrorist's livingroom; Refused to admit "The Surge" is working even though by all accounts it is; Never bothered to utter the word "Victory" when referring to the war in Iraq, much less the war on terror; Broke his promise to the American people in terms of his campaign finance; Sat in a church for 20 years that spewed "Hate-America" rhetoric and, in fact, called that preacher "His mentor"; Only had 3 years of experience in the U.S. Senate, 2 of which he spent running for President.

    Nope, don't believe I saw much of that in the OP's original post


    Niether did it mention, "What if Biden was married to a separatist and part of an end times church?"

    You can't mention "victory" in the "war on terror" because it's not a real war. It's a war against a *concept* which isn't ever going to work. You can't declare victory against a concept that will exist forever.
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    Oct 30, 2008 4:00 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidThis might have been interesting if the switcheroo wasn't so skewed in favor of Obama and was actually something bi-partisan. I didn't see anything like:

    What if John McCain were hiding his college thesis; had launched one of his state senate campaigns from a domestic terrorist's livingroom; Refused to admit "The Surge" is working even though by all accounts it is; Never bothered to utter the word "Victory" when referring to the war in Iraq, much less the war on terror; Broke his promise to the American people in terms of his campaign finance; Sat in a church for 20 years that spewed "Hate-America" rhetoric and, in fact, called that preacher "His mentor"; Only had 3 years of experience in the U.S. Senate, 2 of which he spent running for President.

    Nope, don't believe I saw much of that in the OP's original post


    Very legitimate points to address CuriousJockAZ. Thanks.

    It's a known fact Obama launched his campaign at a hotel in Chicago - Hyde Park Ramada. A fact checker at ABC pointed that out and confirmed it after one of the debates.

    I completely disagree with The Surge working as well as McCain claims.
    And those sources are news journalists that live and deal with life in Iraq from a day to day basis. No question some places in Iraq are getting better. But, most of Iraq have no running water or basic necessities of life. How can that be a victory after 5+ years?

    His campaign finance decision was never a promise to the American people. He believes the system first needs to be campaign finance reform.
    And frankly, He made a VERY SMART decision ...the evidence is seen in how he is able to raise so much money.

    The issue of his "mentor" and the Church he used to attend is something I can't and won't get into. If the facts are true about his attendance then I can't argue with you.
    To be honest - I rather have a President not so closely aligned to any particular church or "mentor" - Billy Graham comes to mind - and his opinion of my faith was very disheartening - He said that Muslims worshiped a different God than Christians and that he believed Islam to be ''a very evil and wicked religion.'' Nearly a billion and half people in the world were offended by that. Are all of them evil? I just don't get that. Mr. Graham forgets the "Catholic evil" of Oklahoma City - April 19, 1995.
  • DiverScience

    Posts: 1426

    Oct 30, 2008 4:01 PM GMT
    Ducky44 saidDriver,

    I was merely asking a question and making a point. As far as the charge of my getting cranky, it's not that serious, nor to I take these post that serious.
    It's just an exchange.

    If you thought I was getting cranky you can relax...I don't know you to get angry or cranky at you, just as you do not know me to get cranky with me.



    A point invalidated before you'd actually posted, but ok.

    Also, "Diver" not "Driver"