Senators: No Evidence NSA Spying Prevented Attacks, Update: Deputy AG admits spy program mistakenly targets innocent people

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 5:36 PM GMT
    "Even President Obama’s most ardent supporters losing faith that he would usher in a more transparent government"
    http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/06/on-spying-a-deficit-of-trust/


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/obama-administration-collecting-huge-number-of-citizens-phone-records-lawmaker-says/2013/06/06/337dbaae-cec9-11e2-8573-3baeea6a2647_story.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:00 PM GMT
    Dept. of Homeland Security: Laptops, Phones Can Be Searched Based on Hunches

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/06/05/dept-of-homeland-security-laptops-phones-can-be-searched-based-on-hunches/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:12 PM GMT
    This is just awful.
  • Christoforos

    Posts: 264

    Jun 06, 2013 7:18 PM GMT
    BOOOO HOOOOO

    dawson-crying.jpeg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:20 PM GMT
    This ought to be a bipartisan issue for everyone who cares about civil liberties.

    "The sweeping roundup of U.S. phone records has been going on for years and was a key part of the Bush administration’s warrantless surveillance program, according to a U.S. official."
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:24 PM GMT
    showme saidThis ought to be a bipartisan issue for everyone who cares about civil liberties.

    "The sweeping roundup of U.S. phone records has been going on for years and was a key part of the Bush administration’s warrantless surveillance program, according to a U.S. official."


    Now now, it's supposed to ONLY be Obama's fault a la Riddler.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:29 PM GMT
    showme saidThis ought to be a bipartisan issue for everyone who cares about civil liberties.

    "The sweeping roundup of U.S. phone records has been going on for years and was a key part of the Bush administration’s warrantless surveillance program, according to a U.S. official."


    Absolutely. Bipartisan - particularly given that Democratic administrations seem to get a pass on these issues when they do them - it was expanded under the Obama Administration as well.

    Look at the lack of outrage over the proposed warrentless spying.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:29 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    showme saidThis ought to be a bipartisan issue for everyone who cares about civil liberties.

    "The sweeping roundup of U.S. phone records has been going on for years and was a key part of the Bush administration’s warrantless surveillance program, according to a U.S. official."


    Now now, it's supposed to ONLY be Obama's fault a la Riddler.



    And this is a post indicative of how clueless you really are - oh and how little you know of me.
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:35 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    showme saidThis ought to be a bipartisan issue for everyone who cares about civil liberties.

    "The sweeping roundup of U.S. phone records has been going on for years and was a key part of the Bush administration’s warrantless surveillance program, according to a U.S. official."


    Absolutely. Bipartisan - particularly given that Democratic administrations seem to get a pass on these issues when they do them - it was expanded under the Obama Administration as well.

    Look at the lack of outrage over the proposed warrentless spying.


    Do you care about the civil liberties issues involved, or do you just care that Bush got more shit for it than Obama is?
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:41 PM GMT
    showme said
    riddler78 said
    showme saidThis ought to be a bipartisan issue for everyone who cares about civil liberties.

    "The sweeping roundup of U.S. phone records has been going on for years and was a key part of the Bush administration’s warrantless surveillance program, according to a U.S. official."


    Absolutely. Bipartisan - particularly given that Democratic administrations seem to get a pass on these issues when they do them - it was expanded under the Obama Administration as well.

    Look at the lack of outrage over the proposed warrentless spying.


    Do you care about the civil liberties issues involved, or do you just care that Bush got more shit for it than Obama is?


    Do you really care which? I do care about it because of the civil liberties involved and I also dislike the hypocrisy of those particularly the many who you ideologically ally yourself with. I note you didn't have a comparable comment to meninlove which speaks volumes.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:43 PM GMT
    And more here - the hypocrisy in the Administration is palpable:
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/06/agriculture-secretary-also-used-a-secret-email-account/
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:43 PM GMT
    Actually, I do care. We have common ground if you actually care about the civil liberties issues.

    If you just care about sticking it to the Obama administration, we don't.

    Yes, MIL are my friends, I have noticed your ongoing dispute but it is your fight and I have stayed out of it. Don't try to drag me into shit just because.

    riddler78 saidAnd more here - the hypocrisy in the Administration is palpable:
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/06/agriculture-secretary-also-used-a-secret-email-account/


    I think you already answered my question.
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:53 PM GMT
    showme saidActually, I do care. We have common ground if you actually care about the civil liberties issues.

    If you just care about sticking it to the Obama administration, we don't.

    Yes, MIL are my friends, I have noticed your ongoing dispute but it is your fight and I have stayed out of it. Don't try to drag me into shit just because.

    riddler78 saidAnd more here - the hypocrisy in the Administration is palpable:
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/06/agriculture-secretary-also-used-a-secret-email-account/


    I think you already answered my question.


    Drag you into shit? You've long been in it. And as for trying to stay out of it, I'm only pointing out your own hypocrisy and lack of integrity that you'd refrain from questioning those who you see as friends or ideological allies.

    And yes, you've also answered mine.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:56 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    showme saidActually, I do care. We have common ground if you actually care about the civil liberties issues.

    If you just care about sticking it to the Obama administration, we don't.

    Yes, MIL are my friends, I have noticed your ongoing dispute but it is your fight and I have stayed out of it. Don't try to drag me into shit just because.

    riddler78 saidAnd more here - the hypocrisy in the Administration is palpable:
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/06/agriculture-secretary-also-used-a-secret-email-account/


    I think you already answered my question.


    Drag you into shit? You've long been in it. And as for trying to stay out of it, I'm only pointing out your own hypocrisy.

    And yes, you've also answered mine.


    Actually, I can have a civil conversation with almost anyone about almost anything. Ask FIF (just not about ChikFilA, lol) - hope he doesn't mind if I use him as a reference.

    Yes, you have dragged me into your shit by saying I should have criticized MIL for their posting. I am not my friends' keeper. And I have noticed that you are not exactly shy about giving it back. You dont' need my help.
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    Jun 06, 2013 7:58 PM GMT
    showme said
    riddler78 said
    showme saidActually, I do care. We have common ground if you actually care about the civil liberties issues.

    If you just care about sticking it to the Obama administration, we don't.

    Yes, MIL are my friends, I have noticed your ongoing dispute but it is your fight and I have stayed out of it. Don't try to drag me into shit just because.

    riddler78 saidAnd more here - the hypocrisy in the Administration is palpable:
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/06/agriculture-secretary-also-used-a-secret-email-account/


    I think you already answered my question.


    Drag you into shit? You've long been in it. And as for trying to stay out of it, I'm only pointing out your own hypocrisy.

    And yes, you've also answered mine.


    Actually, I can have a civil conversation with almost anyone about almost anything. Ask FIF (just not about ChikFilA, lol) - hope he doesn't mind if I use him as a reference.

    Yes, you have dragged me into your shit by saying I should have criticized MIL for their posting. I am not my friends' keeper. And I have noticed that you are not exactly shy about giving it back. You dont' need my help.


    Did I say you were your friends' keeper? No, I was just pointing out that you only stand up for issues when they're easy to do so as you've so amply demonstrated. It's not to say that this was civil or uncivil but if the fact that I've reflected your attempted criticisms back on you and that makes you uncomfortable, then so be it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 8:00 PM GMT
    Um, no. I just don't view personal enmity between you and MIL as an issue that requires my attention.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 8:12 PM GMT
    showme saidUm, no. I just don't view personal enmity between you and MIL as an issue that requires my attention.


    Again you seem to think I claim it required your attention. I did however point out the irony that you didn't similarly make an issue of his comment on the same issue. I also pointed out this reflects poorly on your motives and integrity in being unable to question those who you are friends with/ideologically agree with. This is entirely independent of what I might think of MIL, which, frankly, isn't much despite for his wheezing for attention.
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    Jun 06, 2013 8:24 PM GMT
    This is getting kind of stupid, but all MIL did was to claim that you think it's all Obama's fault, which appears to be only a slight exageration. So I have no idea what "irony" you're talking about.

    My motives were to actually reach across the ideological divide (well, not so far, I'm not a huge lefty) and post that an issue you raised was really a bipartisan issue, which it is. The members of Congress quoted in the WaPo article are all over the map on this issue, independent of party affiliation.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 8:37 PM GMT
    showme saidThis is getting kind of stupid, but all MIL did was to claim that you think it's all Obama's fault, which appears to be only a slight exageration. So I have no idea what "irony" you're talking about.

    My motives were to actually reach across the ideological divide (well, not so far, I'm not a huge lefty) and post that an issue you raised was really a bipartisan issue, which it is. The members of Congress quoted in the WaPo article are all over the map on this issue, independent of party affiliation.



    This got stupid several comments ago with your selective attempt at framing this as being non-partisan - which again, I have stated I believe it is as are many of the scandals that have enveloped this Administration lately.

    You asked "do you just care that Bush got more shit for it than Obama is?" MIL's attempt at making this seem entirely partisan again is a reflection of both you and he given your message to me was just after it. This is the point you raised. I also note there are Republicans who have argued that the program was 'worth it'. It is the Washington Post however which noted that it is a program that proliferated under the Obama Administration and is being defended by the Administration.
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    Jun 06, 2013 8:45 PM GMT
    More on the reaction.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/obama-administration-nsa-verizon-records
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3274

    Jun 06, 2013 8:47 PM GMT
    showme saidThis is getting kind of stupid, but all MIL did was to claim that you think it's all Obama's fault, which appears to be only a slight exageration. So I have no idea what "irony" you're talking about.

    My motives were to actually reach across the ideological divide (well, not so far, I'm not a huge lefty) and post that an issue you raised was really a bipartisan issue, which it is. The members of Congress quoted in the WaPo article are all over the map on this issue, independent of party affiliation.



    well this is a situation where we have to "trust" the government to get it right.

    I would say that trust is at a all time low.

    The FISA law should be amended so that if anyone in the government misuses NSA personal information they go to federal prison.

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    Jun 06, 2013 8:49 PM GMT
    EFF's release on the subject:

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/confirmed-nsa-spying-millions-americans
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    Jun 06, 2013 9:03 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    showme saidThis is getting kind of stupid, but all MIL did was to claim that you think it's all Obama's fault, which appears to be only a slight exageration. So I have no idea what "irony" you're talking about.

    My motives were to actually reach across the ideological divide (well, not so far, I'm not a huge lefty) and post that an issue you raised was really a bipartisan issue, which it is. The members of Congress quoted in the WaPo article are all over the map on this issue, independent of party affiliation.



    This got stupid several comments ago with your selective attempt at framing this as being non-partisan - which again, I have stated I believe it is as are many of the scandals that have enveloped this Administration lately.

    You asked "do you just care that Bush got more shit for it than Obama is?" MIL's attempt at making this seem entirely partisan again is a reflection of both you and he given your message to me was just after it. This is the point you raised. I also note there are Republicans who have argued that the program was 'worth it'. It is the Washington Post however which noted that it is a program that proliferated under the Obama Administration and is being defended by the Administration.


    Okey dokey then. The issue should be of nonpartisan concern for anyone who cares about civil liberties. That doesn't mean you're not using it for partisan purposes, which I don't care about and will not buy into.

    Sen. Reid said, "Right now I think that everyone should just calm down and understand that this isn’t anything that’s brand new...This is a program that’s been in effect for seven years, as I recall. It’s a program that has worked to prevent not all terrorism but certainly the vast, vast majority. Now is the program perfect? Of course not.” I don't care whether it's new, or old. I understand that the Administration will be judged terribly in hindsight if there's a major US terrorist event on its watch, but I think this the equivalent of selling your soul to the devil.

    Sen. Graham said, “If you’re not getting a call from a terrorist organization, you’ve got nothing to worry about.” Bull. Shit. That is the argument that's always used. If you're a law abiding citizen, why worry about the government looking over your shoulder? Tell that to the Republican base. icon_rolleyes.gif And Democrats should be up in arms.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 06, 2013 9:47 PM GMT
    Doesn't bother me one bit.

    #1 If they did ever track my calls all they would see is my mothers number and if they listened in they would hear he blabbing about what she did that day.

    #2 I don't do anything illegal and have nothing to hide. I will send them my phone records.

    #3 if you truly want privacy, send a letter or talk in person.

    With technology comes lost privacy.

  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Jun 06, 2013 9:53 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    showme saidThis ought to be a bipartisan issue for everyone who cares about civil liberties.

    "The sweeping roundup of U.S. phone records has been going on for years and was a key part of the Bush administration’s warrantless surveillance program, according to a U.S. official."


    Absolutely. Bipartisan - particularly given that Democratic administrations seem to get a pass on these issues when they do them - it was expanded under the Obama Administration as well.

    Look at the lack of outrage over the proposed warrentless spying.


    Except it's not warrantless, you right-wing Canadian liar: the reason this is in the news now is because the Obama administration actively sought a warrant -- unlike the Bush administration.

    More selective much-ado-about-nothing outrage from hippies, Paultards, and fringe right hypocritical Obama haters. This program has been going on for years, and under Bush it was warrantless and thus worse. Riddler and his right-wing ilk had nothing to say about that, but now because Obama has tried to improve the program by seeking warrants, they want to take to their fainting couches. Puh-leeze.

    Thank goodness there are reasonable Republicans in Congress who've acknowledged that this program has saved American lives: there have been 40, count them, FORTY post-9/11 terrorist attacks thwarted. And make no mistake about it: had even one of those attacks happened under Obama's watch, riddler and his fellow Obama Deranged teanuts wouldn't shut up about how the evil black man in the White House didn't protect Americans.

    Democrats should not fall for yet another bullshit distraction from thing fringe of a party that has nothing to offer besides racism, homophobia, misogyny, and objectivism -- all poisons from which Americans should continue to run.