USA is DOOMED!

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    Jun 07, 2013 7:27 AM GMT
    I'm starting to believe it, every nation has to go down in history at some time and ours is probably right around the corner, our economy is no good, we have issues in the Islamic world, and congress does nothing but fight. Any hope for America or are we doomed?
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    Jun 07, 2013 9:35 AM GMT
    You're not doomed, per se. You're just a very young country and you don't know who you are yet. Comparatively, you're a toddler trying to find his feet.
  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Jun 07, 2013 10:09 AM GMT
    The US will probably remain for at least a few hundred years more, regardless of how much it decreases in relative power.

    The US is "doomed" in the sense that concentrations of power tend to shift over time and that the currently most powerful state may fail to adapt to this shift because it hasn't needed to adapt before. However, this doesn't mean that the state suddenly vanishes; just look at the US's power predecessor, Great Britain, which still exists largely as it did, just with less power and influence to act unilaterally.

    The economy is no good because the policies and their enforcement are no good. This may change over time, as it has in many other countries (granted the US government seems more intransigent to curtailing its banks and its heavily subsidized financial speculators). The next bailout should come in the form of a buyout of the banks with the commensurate say in the banks' boards (and sacking of the previous boards) rather than a low-interest loan.

    The most likely "doom" for the US these days is that of the efforts on part of the government to safeguard itself against any conceivable threat (as opposed to accepting that an open democratic society is inherently vulnerable to threats, and must be so if it is to remain open).
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    Jun 07, 2013 10:40 AM GMT
    Think of 'The USA' as a long running television series, maybe like Saturday Night Live.

    The current cast is a disappointment. Those playing the parts of Congressmen are competing to win "America's Got Stupid".

    The President was miscast as 'Jesus' which greatly offended red state audiences because everyone knows that the real Jesus looked German.

    Whoever wrote a part for the Tea Party should be fired, and will be.

    But there's always next season.

    And you get to vote on the new cast.
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    Jun 07, 2013 10:48 AM GMT
    blazerblue saidThink of 'The USA' as a long running television series, maybe like Saturday Night Live.

    The current cast is a disappointment. Those playing the parts of Congressmen are competing to win "America's Got Stupid".

    The President was miscast as 'Jesus' which greatly offended red state audiences because everyone knows that the real Jesus looked German.

    Whoever wrote a part for the Tea Party should be fired, and will be.

    But there's always next season.

    And you get to vote on the new cast.

    Perfect way of looking at it, only some long running television shows are actually funny, not this one.
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    Jun 07, 2013 11:27 AM GMT
    I'm sure the same thing was said during the Great Depression. The US still has the largest economy in the world. It's not exactly on its last legs. With the baby boomers maturing, however, it is going to have to make some painful decisions in the next few decades.
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    Jun 07, 2013 12:09 PM GMT
    QuasarMarauder7 saidI'm starting to believe it, every nation has to go down in history at some time and ours is probably right around the corner, our economy is no good, we have issues in the Islamic world, and congress does nothing but fight. Any hope for America or are we doomed?


    Far far from it. I think the US may be in for a rough ride until it figures out Obamacare and makes the appropriate amendments - but there are some great underlying future positive black swans:

    1. The US remains the most innovative nation by far. Innovative in the sense that it's able to apply inventions that actually make life better vs just inventing things that no one uses.

    2. Energy costs are going to fall - and likely dramatically over the next 10 years. There has been ongoing exploration offshore and the world has only scratched the surface with shale gas and shale oil. This is in spite of what the US government has allowed (almost all these gains have happened on private lands versus in the past you had a lot if not most on public lands).

    To give you a sense of it, oil prices are trading at about $100 a barrel. Gas is about 3 bucks per thousand cubic feet. The equivalent amount of gas to a barrel of oil is 7:1. Historically they've traded in tandem at that range - that is until shale gas. Imagine if you could fill up your tank for 1/5th of the price... This is basically the equivalent to a massive but sustainable amount of stimulus (which is what technology is - and it's sustainable to boot!). The reason why there hasn't been a rapid convergence is because of regulation - and the high cost of converting cars to run on LNG as a result - but it's happening (it's starting with much larger transports).

    I also happen to believe that gas is just the bridge to something even cheaper - like sustainable solar or some type of cheap nuclear/fusion. We are also consuming less energy in the west as our products get more efficient. Expect innovations in even traditional ICE engines - which are only something like under 20% efficient at the moment.

    This has geopolitical implications even in the shorter run. Guess what happens when prices continue to fall... and American "issues in the Islamic world" - and bear in mind they don;t have to fall far!
    Hint: http://blogs.wsj.com/middleeast/2013/05/28/break-even-oil-price-bogeyman-stalks-gulf-economies/

    3. There are a few large industries about to be completely restructured by technology: healthcare and education - this could unleash a massive amount of innovation in and of itself.

    This isn't to say the US won't have challenges - it definitely will especially in the short term. I suspect that Obamacare's implementation will be disastrous - and there are already many indications that it won't do anything other than add to the cost of healthcare delivery. This is something the US has to get under control - to give you one example - the US spends more per capita in PUBLIC healthcare than Canada does - and only a fraction of the people in the US even qualify for it. Consider that there are a lot of liberals here who believe the US governemnt should take over ALL of healthcare despite its incompetence in the areas it already manages. This is not sustainable.
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    Jun 07, 2013 12:27 PM GMT
    Despite riddler's incessant " I suspect that Obamacare's implementation will be disastrous "

    and the Republican effort to create the illusion of disaster,

    ROMNEYCARE/OBAMACARE is one of the positive steps we're taking toward a stronger future.

    Riddler makes some great points about our future promise, which means that Republicans and Democrats do indeed share most of the same vision for the road ahead.

    The Big Problem, and I believe it's temporary, is that many Republicans haven't given up their failed strategy yet.

    The Bright Spot is that some are beginning to represent the best interest of citizens and not the Party of No.

    Example: Governor Jan Brewer of Arizona
    She was more hysterically opposed to Obamacare than even our own riddler. But now she's backing it 100% as the financially wise and "moral" path.

    Progress is coming.
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    Jun 07, 2013 12:30 PM GMT
    blazerblue saidDespite riddler's incessant " I suspect that Obamacare's implementation will be disastrous "

    and the Republican effort to create the illusion of disaster,

    ROMNEYCARE/OBAMACARE is one of the positive steps we're taking toward a stronger future.

    Riddler makes some great points about our future promise, which means that Republicans and Democrats do indeed share most of the same vision for the road ahead.

    The Big Problem, and I believe it's temporary, is that many Republicans haven't given up their failed strategy yet.

    The Bright Spot is that some are beginning to represent the best interest of citizens and not the Party of No.

    Example: Governor Jan Brewer of Arizona
    She was more hysterically opposed to Obamacare than even our own riddler. But now she's backing it 100% as the financially wise and "moral" path.

    Progress is coming.


    Except for the facts on the ground... you'd be right. Again, Jan Brewer is doing it for the additional money from Medicare. The problem is that money doesn't grow on trees. It comes from somewhere.
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    Jun 07, 2013 12:38 PM GMT
    " money doesn't grow on trees. It comes from somewhere."

    Once again, it's amazing how much we agree.
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    Jun 07, 2013 1:34 PM GMT
    Unintended said
    blazerblue said" money doesn't grow on trees. It comes from somewhere."

    Once again, it's amazing how much we agree.


    He know nothing of facts and just politicizes. Jan Brewer actually stated that Obamacare was economically and morally correct:

    “I did not make this decision lightly. … It’s not only a mathematical issue, but it’s a moral issue.”

    However, this nation needs national healthcare just like every other developed nation.



    Well, you have the predictions now. They can only go so many ways. Like I've already pointed out the preliminary indications is that it will be disastrous - even look at the President's own allies like Baucus and his comments over education and implementation.

    Secondly that 50 person mark is going to be an issue for a lot of companies. And finally, given that they're not going to be able to create doctors out of thin air, there will be a supply shortage of primary care physicians.
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    Jun 07, 2013 1:45 PM GMT
    Unintended said
    riddler78 said
    Unintended said
    blazerblue said" money doesn't grow on trees. It comes from somewhere."

    Once again, it's amazing how much we agree.


    He know nothing of facts and just politicizes. Jan Brewer actually stated that Obamacare was economically and morally correct:

    “I did not make this decision lightly. … It’s not only a mathematical issue, but it’s a moral issue.”

    However, this nation needs national healthcare just like every other developed nation.



    Well, you have the predictions now. They can only go so many ways. Like I've already pointed out the preliminary indications is that it will be disastrous - even look at the President's own allies like Baucus and his comments over education and implementation.

    Secondly that 50 person mark is going to be an issue for a lot of companies. And finally, given that they're not going to be able to create doctors out of thin air, there will be a supply shortage of primary care physicians.


    Why do you care, you are not even American?

    Have you ever dealt with an American insurance company? Have you ever been thru the American health care industry for major surgery?

    Only those on the right say Obamacare will be a disaster. However, I am concerned that undermining on a state level will cause problems in these state.

    But to be honest, they are all Red States that can go to hell anyway.


    See Baucus's comment - he isn't exactly a right winger - in fact far from it - pretty much anyone who is involved in implementation has significant concern and no one can say with any certainty what will happen October 2nd:
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/2/reid-agrees-baucus-health-care-train-wreck-if-not-/

    I have dealt with American insurers but not for major surgery. And I care because many of my clients are in the US and I expect that I will get many more - the health of the US economy is important to me.
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    Jun 07, 2013 2:08 PM GMT
    Unintended said
    riddler78 said
    Unintended said
    riddler78 said
    Unintended said
    blazerblue said" money doesn't grow on trees. It comes from somewhere."

    Once again, it's amazing how much we agree.


    He know nothing of facts and just politicizes. Jan Brewer actually stated that Obamacare was economically and morally correct:

    “I did not make this decision lightly. … It’s not only a mathematical issue, but it’s a moral issue.”

    However, this nation needs national healthcare just like every other developed nation.



    Well, you have the predictions now. They can only go so many ways. Like I've already pointed out the preliminary indications is that it will be disastrous - even look at the President's own allies like Baucus and his comments over education and implementation.

    Secondly that 50 person mark is going to be an issue for a lot of companies. And finally, given that they're not going to be able to create doctors out of thin air, there will be a supply shortage of primary care physicians.


    Why do you care, you are not even American?

    Have you ever dealt with an American insurance company? Have you ever been thru the American health care industry for major surgery?

    Only those on the right say Obamacare will be a disaster. However, I am concerned that undermining on a state level will cause problems in these state.

    But to be honest, they are all Red States that can go to hell anyway.


    See Baucus's comment - he isn't exactly a right winger - in fact far from it - pretty much anyone who is involved in implementation has significant concern and no one can say with any certainty what will happen October 2nd:
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/2/reid-agrees-baucus-health-care-train-wreck-if-not-/

    I have dealt with American insurers but not for major surgery. And I care because many of my clients are in the US and I expect that I will get many more - the health of the US economy is important to me.


    Again, you only read headlines.

    "The Senate’s top Democrat said this week he agrees with Sen. Max Baucus’ recent comments warning of “a huge train wreck coming down” if President Obama’s health care overhaul isn’t implemented properly.

    You would have to be a moron to disagree with the above statements.

    "Mr. Baucus, who as chair of the Senate Finance Committee was integral in writing the law, said he is “very concerned” by the lack of information among small business and accountants who are “throwing their hands” up over the law."

    In addition to paid advertisements spreading dis-information.

    Finally:

    "For her part, Mrs. Sebelius told Mr. Baucus she was “incredibly disappointed” that her requests for more money to help explain the new law was blocked in a short-term funding plan for 2013, but she expressed confidence the implementation of the law would be a success."

    My last concern is Republicans will block attempts to fix the bill because they want to destroy the President.


    Here's the full quote:

    “I just see a huge train wreck coming down,” Mr. Baucus said to Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius. “You and I have discussed this many times, and I don’t see any results yet.”


    Further, the enforcement is being done by the IRS. How much do you think tax collection and healthcare should have in common?

    There are so many factors that make it unlikely that there will be success for a bill that was so shoddily written and its attempts to defy the laws of economics. So it will either go one of two ways - it could survive but taxes will need to increase with deficits going up potentially dramatically. Or it will fail / more doctors will just start charging cash as has already been the case (see the costs associated with moving from ICD-9 to ICD-10).

    Ironically if more doctors do rebel and move to cash, this could make a healthcare system more sustainable in the US as both Medicare and insurers will need to adapt.
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    Jun 07, 2013 2:09 PM GMT
    Unintended saidYou do not have "clients" and you don't have any concern for this country beyond being a troll.

    I have to run, I have real clients to attend with. icon_biggrin.gif


    It must be easier for you to think that. Unfortunately, the reality is that I do have significant concern for the economy of the US.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 07, 2013 2:18 PM GMT
    No country will be doomed if one knows not only how to avoid the dangers but also acts upon it.

    If one thinks that economy can only save from disaster, they are already doomed :-/
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jun 07, 2013 2:37 PM GMT
    Then why are all the other countries so jelly?
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2603

    Jun 08, 2013 1:25 AM GMT
    All countries are 'doomed' in the long run.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Jun 08, 2013 4:25 PM GMT
    Unintended said
    riddler78 said
    Unintended said
    blazerblue said" money doesn't grow on trees. It comes from somewhere."

    Once again, it's amazing how much we agree.


    He know nothing of facts and just politicizes. Jan Brewer actually stated that Obamacare was economically and morally correct:

    “I did not make this decision lightly. … It’s not only a mathematical issue, but it’s a moral issue.”

    However, this nation needs national healthcare just like every other developed nation.



    Well, you have the predictions now. They can only go so many ways. Like I've already pointed out the preliminary indications is that it will be disastrous - even look at the President's own allies like Baucus and his comments over education and implementation.

    Secondly that 50 person mark is going to be an issue for a lot of companies. And finally, given that they're not going to be able to create doctors out of thin air, there will be a supply shortage of primary care physicians.


    Why do you care, you are not even American?

    Have you ever dealt with an American insurance company? Have you ever been thru the American health care industry for major surgery?

    Only those on the right say Obamacare will be a disaster. However, I am concerned that undermining on a state level will cause problems in these state.

    But to be honest, they are all Red States that can go to hell anyway.
    I agree with you 100% about Riddler constantly sticking his nose into American conversations. It is none of his damned business. He is a foreign national from Canada so he should concern himself with Canadian issues only.
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    Jun 08, 2013 5:24 PM GMT
    roadbikeRobUnintended said
    riddler78 said
    Unintended said
    blazerblue said" money doesn't grow on trees. It comes from somewhere."

    Once again, it's amazing how much we agree.


    He know nothing of facts and just politicizes. Jan Brewer actually stated that Obamacare was economically and morally correct:

    “I did not make this decision lightly. … It’s not only a mathematical issue, but it’s a moral issue.”

    However, this nation needs national healthcare just like every other developed nation.



    Well, you have the predictions now. They can only go so many ways. Like I've already pointed out the preliminary indications is that it will be disastrous - even look at the President's own allies like Baucus and his comments over education and implementation.

    Secondly that 50 person mark is going to be an issue for a lot of companies. And finally, given that they're not going to be able to create doctors out of thin air, there will be a supply shortage of primary care physicians.

    Why do you care, you are not even American?

    Have you ever dealt with an American insurance company? Have you ever been thru the American health care industry for major surgery?

    Only those on the right say Obamacare will be a disaster. However, I am concerned that undermining on a state level will cause problems in these state.

    But to be honest, they are all Red States that can go to hell anyway.I agree with you 100% about Riddler constantly sticking his nose into American conversations. It is none of his damned business. He is a foreign national from Canada so he should concern himself with Canadian issues only.


    There's no harm in knowing what goes on in other countries, and Riddler should "stick his nose into American conversations" I agree with him doing it because, The USA does have a lot of interdependence with a lot of other nations, we trade, a lot of things we do affect Canada. So, what's wrong with knowing about what goes in other countries?
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Jun 08, 2013 5:36 PM GMT
    QuasarMarauder7 said
    roadbikeRobUnintended said
    riddler78 said
    Unintended said
    blazerblue said" money doesn't grow on trees. It comes from somewhere."

    Once again, it's amazing how much we agree.


    He know nothing of facts and just politicizes. Jan Brewer actually stated that Obamacare was economically and morally correct:

    “I did not make this decision lightly. … It’s not only a mathematical issue, but it’s a moral issue.”

    However, this nation needs national healthcare just like every other developed nation.



    Well, you have the predictions now. They can only go so many ways. Like I've already pointed out the preliminary indications is that it will be disastrous - even look at the President's own allies like Baucus and his comments over education and implementation.

    Secondly that 50 person mark is going to be an issue for a lot of companies. And finally, given that they're not going to be able to create doctors out of thin air, there will be a supply shortage of primary care physicians.

    Why do you care, you are not even American?

    Have you ever dealt with an American insurance company? Have you ever been thru the American health care industry for major surgery?

    Only those on the right say Obamacare will be a disaster. However, I am concerned that undermining on a state level will cause problems in these state.

    But to be honest, they are all Red States that can go to hell anyway.I agree with you 100% about Riddler constantly sticking his nose into American conversations. It is none of his damned business. He is a foreign national from Canada so he should concern himself with Canadian issues only.


    There's no harm in knowing what goes on in other countries, and Riddler should "stick his nose into American conversations" I agree with him doing it because, The USA does have a lot of interdependence with a lot of other nations, we trade, a lot of things we do affect Canada. So, what's wrong with knowing about what goes in other countries?
    No Riddler should not stick his nose into American conversations. It is one thing to want to know what is going on in other countries and I encourage that but at the same token nosy rosie from Toronto needs to respect limits and not butt into every American political conversation. He doesn't own property or pay taxes to the US so he has no legitimate say in the matter. I don't go sticking my nose into foreign political conversations so Riddler has no right sticking his nose into American political conversations. He needs to go get a life.
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    Jun 08, 2013 5:44 PM GMT
    roadbikeRobQuasarMarauder7 said
    roadbikeRobUnintended said
    riddler78 said
    Unintended said
    blazerblue said" money doesn't grow on trees. It comes from somewhere."

    Once again, it's amazing how much we agree.


    He know nothing of facts and just politicizes. Jan Brewer actually stated that Obamacare was economically and morally correct:

    “I did not make this decision lightly. … It’s not only a mathematical issue, but it’s a moral issue.”

    However, this nation needs national healthcare just like every other developed nation.



    Well, you have the predictions now. They can only go so many ways. Like I've already pointed out the preliminary indications is that it will be disastrous - even look at the President's own allies like Baucus and his comments over education and implementation.

    Secondly that 50 person mark is going to be an issue for a lot of companies. And finally, given that they're not going to be able to create doctors out of thin air, there will be a supply shortage of primary care physicians.

    Why do you care, you are not even American?

    Have you ever dealt with an American insurance company? Have you ever been thru the American health care industry for major surgery?

    Only those on the right say Obamacare will be a disaster. However, I am concerned that undermining on a state level will cause problems in these state.

    But to be honest, they are all Red States that can go to hell anyway.I agree with you 100% about Riddler constantly sticking his nose into American conversations. It is none of his damned business. He is a foreign national from Canada so he should concern himself with Canadian issues only.


    There's no harm in knowing what goes on in other countries, and Riddler should "stick his nose into American conversations" I agree with him doing it because, The USA does have a lot of interdependence with a lot of other nations, we trade, a lot of things we do affect Canada. So, what's wrong with knowing about what goes in other countries?No Riddler should not stick his nose into American conversations. It is one thing to want to know what is going on in other countries and I encourage that but at the same token nosy rosie from Toronto needs to respect limits and not butt into every American political conversation. He doesn't own property or pay taxes to the US so he has no legitimate say in the matter. I don't go sticking my nose into foreign political conversations so Riddler has no right sticking his nose into American political conversations. He needs to go get a life.


    It's just an internet conversation, millions of them go one every day about US politics. Many poor and homeless people who probably are drop outs or had a foreclosure probably don't own property or ay taxes, but they may find a way into a political debate of some sort. Riddler can but in to this American political conversation, because this is an open forum, there are no rules saying who can and can't post in a forum. This conversation is open to all, but unfortunately even trolls icon_sad.gif who will probably be ignored.